Atlas Hyper 2.0 conundrum. What would you do?

[Anonymous]

So four pages on, your answer to the o/p's question is what exactly?

I thought that would be apparant by now

Don't waste money and time chasing flights of fancy invented by marketeers and PT Barnum wanabees, spend your money on things that make a difference:

Room treatments/layouts

Speakers

Amplifiers

DACs

Music

Oh, and respect the work of Faraday, Ohm, Maxwell, Edison, Tesla, Joule, Shockley, Einstein, etc, because they were smart people who experimented and discovered laws and theories that have been checked, rechecked and confirmed time and time again. Do not respect voodoo witch doctors.

 

[MajorFubar]

...which would have been a great answer had he asked something like "so guys what do you think of my cables...do you think my hifi sounds better with them instead of some Maplins bellwire, or not?"

But he didn't.

He asked a very specific question about certain cables, probably hoping to get a few answers from people who had experience of the products in question.

Instead, the thread quickly degenerated into the usual bunfight, primarily orchestrated by people who couldn't actually answer his question anyway, because they don't 'believe' in cables. Bit like me, as an atheist, posting a reply to a thread where the o/p has asked for religious guidance.

 

[Anonymous]

wow! 50 replies! I did hear Atlas 2.0 at home with my kit. And they did sound fantastic with B&W 685 and Rotel amp 1520. The sounds in the sound stage were better isolated. it was a really great difference from my 3 times cheaper wires. (unfortunately I need 16 metres of them so they are on my list) I have a practical question to Big Chris. I can see that you have a PV1 sub. How do you connect that with the monitors and the amp so that everything is in proper phase? I like classical music but I also listen to Chemical Brothers, Faithless and I would like to have more bass when I listen to music like that.

 

[Anonymous]

Instead, the thread quickly degenerated into the usual bunfight, primarily orchestrated by people who couldn't actually answer his question anyway, because they don't 'believe' in cables.

I thought it took quite long for this thread to degenerate. Might have been quicker had it been posted in the proper subforum

 

[Big Chris]

I have a practical question to Big Chris. I can see that you have a PV1 sub. How do you connect that with the monitors and the amp so that everything is in proper phase? I like classical music but I also listen to Chemical Brothers, Faithless and I would like to have more bass when I listen to music like that.

The PV1 comes with it's own speaker level connecting cable, with 4 wires (black, red, green, yellow IIRC). The manual tells you how to connect these up to your amps speaker terminals for correct operation. Plus, the PV1 has a 0/180 phase switch should you need it.

To respond to some of the cables do/don't make a difference posts...

I originally had some £1 per metre generic OFC copper cabling (can't remember the gauge/strand content) which I bought off the roll at a car audio place. When I bought my 602 S3s back in '02, I also got £50 of free speaker cable (Sevenoaks offer). I plumped for the QED S.A Biwire, but didn't use it straight away as I was gonna get it properly terminated with airloc bananas, so I continued to use the generic stuff.

After deciding not to bother getting airlocs fitted (I just bought cheapie screw type bananas off eBay), I substituted the generic stuff for the QED (Had probably been running the B&Ws with the generis stuff for about 3 weeks, with a LOT of use). I perceived an instant change in the presentation. The QED was indeed faster and leaner than my old cable, and these traits remained after continued lengthy use.

A similar thing happened with my interconnects. Originally ran a pair of VDH's 'The Bay' I/Cs (Hefty, bassy sound, but too dull and woolly at the top end), not long after I found some Kimber Silver Streaks on eBay and the price was right, so thought I'd try them. They were much better than the VDHs in almost every area, but they pushed the balance a tad too far in the other direction. Ideally I wanted an I/C with 70% the characteristics of the Kimber, 30% of the VDH.

I ran the Kimbers for about 6/7 years, then with the heavy discounting of Atlas cables (And needing another identical I/C after purchase of my power amp.), I took a gamble on my current Atlas Titans. THIS was the I/C I had been after all along. Neutral, detailed, punchy, balanced, A difference that even my Wife noticed (who usually despairs at all the money I "waste" on bits and bobs for the Hi-Fi).

OK, the Kimbers are Silver (partly), and the Atlas cables are copper, so you may well concede there would be an audible difference, but the VDHs were copper too, and the VDHs and Atlas' are poles apart in their presentation.

I can't explain it, I don't particularly want to. All I know is that these are better. I'm hoping for good things when I connect up my Hypers, but I won't fool myself if there's no improvements. I've got no problem sticking them back on eBay.

I'll be fitting the Hypers this weekend with any luck, and I'll report my findings (after I've run them for a bit), as soon as I can..... A Hyper review minus the hyperbole.

 

[Anonymous]

Instead, the thread quickly degenerated into the usual bunfight, primarily orchestrated by people who couldn't actually answer his question anyway, because they don't 'believe' in cables.

I thought it took quite long for this thread to degenerate. Might have been quicker had it been posted in the proper subforum

True

It also appears people still don't 'get it' as regards what cables actually are, and what they are paying for (entirely unrelated to what the cable is). The make and model is entirely irrelevant unless you have the characteristics in numbers. Amps have power and THD at least, cables are sold with fancy names and _zero_ specifications. Hi-fi can never move forward with such a reaction against the very science that created it.

Ignorance is bliss, and is powering the UK 'forward' . To me cable freaks are comparing fish with fish, and they're unable to identify the weight and type of fish but they know it's shiny when wet.

 

[MajorFubar]

...and still you witter on...and on...and on...with irrelevant posts which have no bearing whatsoever on the o/p's question, some four and a half pages ago. Do you never ever give in and accept that some people just won't agree with you, no matter how often you regurgitate the same stuff?

 

[Anonymous]

...and still you witter on...and on...and on...with irrelevant posts which have no bearing whatsoever on the o/p's question, some four and a half pages ago. Do you never ever give in and accept that some people just won't agree with you, no matter how often you regurgitate the same stuff?

The thing is Major, his posts are totally relevant to the OP's post. I know it's annoying when people actually understand fully the subject they are talking about.

In the original post BIG Chris does state that other opions are welcome.

Perhaps it would be advisable to read up on the science that is being discussed.

By the way, I have read everyone of your posts and respect your views.

Regards

The Limey

 

[MajorFubar]

Thanks, as I do yours.

In fact I respect all opinions, Globs' included: he obviously knows his science, and he often has a lot of common sense to say.

But on this occasion, the o/p didn't ask for anyone to start wittering on about how specialist cables are 'voodoo' mumbo jumbo. Specifically he asked about the merits and suitability of a couple of cables, probably hoping to get a few replies from people who'd used them.

I also struggle with people who stubbornly and very publicly dismiss alternative opinions. Maybe, just *maybe*, science has not yet found a way to explain why cables which should sound the same do not to some people's ears. I'm at least prepared to entertain that thought as a possibility.

The scientists Globs et al respect never stopped asking "why" and "what if": the exact antethisis of an attitude which simply says "that cannot be so".

Never stop asking "why", "what if" and always keep your mind open to alternative theories. We still have a lot to learn

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, as I do yours. In fact I respect all opinions, Globs' included: he obviously knows his science, and he often has a lot of common sense to say. But on this occasion, the o/p didn't ask for anyone to start wittering on about how specialist cables are 'voodoo' mumbo jumbo. Specifically he asked about the merits and suitability of a couple of cables, probably hoping to get a few replies from people who'd used them. I also struggle with people who stubbornly and very publicly dismiss alternative opinions. Maybe, just *maybe*, science has not yet found a way to explain why cables which should sound the same do not to some people's ears. I'm at least prepared to entertain that thought as a possibility. The scientists Globs et al respect never stopped asking "why" and "what if": the exact antethisis of an attitude which simply says "that cannot be so". Never stop asking "why", "what if" and always keep your mind open to alternative theories. We still have a lot to learn

Thanks very much for the reply, I see where you are coming from, I guess the OP has probably had it with the thread he started anyway. On another subject entirely, how are you getting on with the MAC mini? It will be my next purchase. I use a net book as my source and am going to upgrade it soon. The new Mac mini is first on the list. In fact it's the only one on the list.

 

[MajorFubar]

On another subject entirely, how are you getting on with the MAC mini?

Brilliant mate it never misses a beat (pun intended ). Having worked round the issue of it not communicating with my NAS, I have nothing but positive things to say. Even the built-in DAC is more than reasonable for general listening.

The new version is supposed to be even faster and more capable, but purely IMO not to include any optical drive with it is a mistake. What I actually would like to have seen was a BD reader with the apps upgraded to play BDs, not the complete abandonment of it. Apple justifiy their decision to omit the drive by cheekily saying "you don't need one anymore", but I'm not conviced that's the case. Apple are obviously hoping people will use it with their TV as an entertainment system, but not natively equipping it with a drive to read CDs and DVDs limits that somewhat, particularly with films which are few and far between 'in the cloud' (legally, at least).

But...I'd still say to you "go for it!!"

 

[Anonymous]

On another subject entirely, how are you getting on with the MAC mini?

Brilliant mate it never misses a beat (pun intended ). Having worked round the issue of it not communicating with my NAS, I have nothing but positive things to say. Even the built-in DAC is more than reasonable for general listening. The new version is supposed to be even faster and more capable, but purely IMO not to include any optical drive with it is a mistake. What I actually would like to have seen was a BD reader with the apps upgraded to play BDs, not the complete abandonment of it. Apple justifiy their decision to omit the drive by cheekily saying "you don't need one anymore", but I'm not conviced that's the case. Apple are obviously hoping people will use it with their TV as an entertainment system, but not natively equipping it with a drive to read CDs and DVDs limits that somewhat, particularly with films which are few and far between 'in the cloud' (legally, at least). But...I'd still say to you "go for it!!"

Nice to hear you are enjoying it. The lack of optical drive is typically annoying. Not a deal breaker as I have an off board one. I want to use it as an entertainment hub and for a bit of work. It's a little bit short sited of them as I have a number of DVD's I could have used on it. Still isn't Netflix coming to the uK soon, further more Lovefilm are getting set up fro the Streaming revolution. I presume it is soon going to be possible to run iPad type apps on it as well?

Anyway cheers

 

[MajorFubar]

Still isn't Netflix coming to the uK soon, further more Lovefilm are getting set up fro the Streaming revolution. I presume it is soon going to be possible to run iPad type apps on it as well?

Not sure as I'm not on the ball with this stuff yet. I would deffo like to see more films streamable for a good price. It is something I raised in another thread. Currently, Love Film will rent you three films on disc for £6 a month, but if you don't want the disc, your £6 rents you a useless & measily two hours streaming time, which is completely disproportionate. Time for a revolution, imo.

 

[Craig M.]

Maybe, just *maybe*, science has not yet found a way to explain why cables which should sound the same do not to some people's ears.

there is a way of explaining why some cables sound different - expectation bias. when people use only their ears, cables sound the same. this has been tested and proven many times. i always thought the 'all cables are the same' brigade where were either deaf, or hadn't tried different cables, until i got my girlfriend to properly blind test me. turned out she was right all along...

i tested atlas hyper 3, van damme 4mm ofc, qed silver anniversary xt. i couldn't pick any of them out because i couldn't hear any difference. my kit then was atc sia2-150 scm19 and chord qbd76, so i doubt it was holding the cables back!

 

[Anonymous]

Saying that a cable gives more bass, has more punch than another etc, is like saying one black and white tv has more colour in the picture than another.

 

[SonofSun]

Don't waste money and time chasing flights of fancy invented by marketeers and PT Barnum wanabees, spend your money on things that make a difference:

Room treatments/layouts

Speakers

Amplifiers

DACs

Music

Oh, and respect the work of Faraday, Ohm, Maxwell, Edison, Tesla, Joule, Shockley, Einstein, etc, because they were smart people who experimented and discovered laws and theories that have been checked, rechecked and confirmed time and time again. Do not respect voodoo witch doctors.

Well said that man.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Ah, that's better, now it's a proper cable thread.

Look. I'll mention placebo, snake oil and The Amazing Randi now, just to save everyone else the trouble.

As you were, everyone...

 

[Anonymous]

Ah, that's better, now it's a proper cable thread.

Look. I'll mention placebo, snake oil and The Amazing Randi now, just to save everyone else the trouble.

As you were, everyone...

Well we did get proposals for new branches of science surrounding the mystery of copper wire wrapped in plastic, I'm now expecting hi-fi cables to provide that kick needed to unify relativity and quantum physics so we can explore the stars like Dan Dare, all born from people stubbonly refused to accept that the physics of a piece of wire was settled.

I guess the task of measuring the resistance, inductance and capacitance of the piece of wire being tested is within the capabilities of a cable reviewer Andrew? Or are you also proposing superstition and ignorance is the best way forward?

 

[Andrew Everard]

I guess the task of measuring the resistance, inductance and capacitance of the piece of wire being tested is within the capabilities of a cable reviewer Andrew?

I guess so too, but then not being one I'm probably not the best person to comment.

 

[Big Chris]

Well, after picking up the cables from Royal Mail early yesterday, I connected them up as soon as I got home from work.

I know it's very early days, but the TV didn't go on at all last night, and I started with; 'Meshuggah - Catch 33' (It was already in the CDP), followed by 'Devin Townsend - Terria', 'Porcupine Tree - The Incident' (both discs), and finally snippets from the 'Inception OST', most notably 'Time', my fave track.

One thing I have done is turn my sub down. There was clearly more bass than before. The sound is still nicely detailed but with more wallop than the QEDs. Oddly, I seemed to be picking up more synth in the Devin Townsend & Porcupine Tree CDs than before. I'm guessing the improvements in the mid-range are the reason.

The soundstage does appear deeper than before too. The other thing is, I seem to have to push the volume a smidge higher than before to acheive the same levels. I used to listen to 99% of my CDs on '40' on the display, but I was listening at '42' for most of the night.

Any downsides? Well, as detailed as they are, the sound has perhaps lost the last degree of sparkle at the top end.

As I said, it's early days. Some or all of these traits may change/disappear over the next few weeks.

 

[CnoEvil]

Any downsides? Well, as detailed as they are, the sound has perhaps lost the last degree of sparkle at the top end.

As I said, it's early days. Some or all of these traits may change/disappear over the next few weeks.

IMO. The silver coating of the QED SA causes an artificial brightness that has been somewhat mitigated by the sound of your Arcam kit. I think you will start to find that the Atlas presentation will be more natural. If you are in doubt, give it a month and swap back to check.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

thanks for sharing your first impressions Biggy.

One thing I have done is turn my sub down. There was clearly more bass than before. The sound is still nicely detailed but with more wallop than the QEDs. (...) The soundstage does appear deeper than before too. (...) Any downsides? Well, as detailed as they are, the sound has perhaps lost the last degree of sparkle at the top end.

that's exactly what were my impressions after swapping QED Revelation to Atlas Hyper 2.0. although I didn't find "loosing of sparkle at the top end" as negative. in fact it was very welcome.

As I said, it's early days. Some or all of these traits may change/disappear over the next few weeks.

I wouldn't count anything would change . take it or leave it. I personally much prefer presentation of Atlas's pure copper rather than QED's silver plated copper.

 

[Big Chris]

Well things have changed and all for the better. Had it running all yesterday evening, more Inception OST and P.Ts 'Deadwing'.

Volume's back down to 40 (perhaps I was just overcooking them on Thursday because they were new (to me)). Sub is still dialled down though.

All thoughts about lost sparkle have been eradicated from my mind. I love the natural, unforced sound, still packed with detail, and the scale and punch are a marked imrovement over the old QEDs.

I'm one very happy bunny. Some may call me a happy foolish deluded bunny, but I don't care. I'd much rather focus on the 'happy' bit anyway...

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm delighted that you are getting the (imaginary) benefit. What you are describing is exactly what I've always found.

I suspect, that initially the volume got turned up higher beacuse it was more natural and easier on the ear, allowing this.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm delighted that you are getting the (imaginary) benefit. What you are describing is exactly what I've always found. I suspect, that initially the volume got turned up higher beacuse it was more natural and easier on the ear, allowing this.

A good nights sleep will help the ears and the brain, and 'running in' or capacitors will help some of the electrolytics form if not done already. You can rest assured however that the cables are _exactly_ the same and quite unaffected by the process, and if you got a friend to swap the old ones back without you seeing, you wouldn't notice the difference.