atc vs focals and major brands?

[stpierre76]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anybody ever made a direcr comparaison of the atc 19 vs focal electra standmount or B&W 805.The reason i ask, is that on the week end i audition the atc11 and was amazed.I beleive that the 19 are another step up but dealer had sold his last pair so couldn t tell.Given the price defference between the atc 19 and focal 1008be electra(my speakers) of around 1000 quid, m not sure the focal are 50% better.I know the focals are all hand made in france, whereas atc cabinets are outsourced, the focals finish is impressive but surely it does not add 1000 quids.Same goes for the 805.

If you have not noticed yet, i guess, i m seriously considering swapping.As always i would love to hear your views and opinions regarding that matter.

sincerely yours john

 

[Frank Harvey]

As long as they're driven properly, the SCM19's are great speakers - I prefer them to the SCM40's. It's been too long since I've heard 805's, so wouldn't like to comment there. I've heard some Focals, but can't recall the models, so wouldn't like to comment their either. All I'm going to say is that if you like the SCM11's, you'll love the SCM19's.

 

[stpierre76]

thanks for replying mate.Before i do anything i might regret i will definately audition the 19.Also, room placement is another issue.At the moment i ve got the focal 1008be fairly away from walls as roomis big but within 6 months i will be moving into a new house where my placement flexibility won t be as great, so something to keep in mind.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

stpierre76:
Hi all,

I was just wondering if anybody ever made a direcr comparaison of the atc 19 vs focal electra standmount or B&W 805.The reason i ask, is that on the week end i audition the atc11 and was amazed.I beleive that the 19 are another step up but dealer had sold his last pair so couldn t tell.Given the price defference between the atc 19 and focal 1008be electra(my speakers) of around 1000 quid, m not sure the focal are 50% better.I know the focals are all hand made in france, whereas atc cabinets are outsourced, the focals finish is impressive but surely it does not add 1000 quids.Same goes for the 805.

If you have not noticed yet, i guess, i m seriously considering swapping.As always i would love to hear your views and opinions regarding that matter.

sincerely yours john

Hi John

There are many speakers that are styled and finished better then SCM19 monitors. If you get a chance then please remove the mid/bass drive units from the SCM19's. Whilst the externals may not be anything to write home about however this is more then made up for many times over with the massive and truly beautifully engineered ultra low distortion state of the art mid/bass drive unit which features ATC's SLMT (Super Linear Magnet Technology). The mid/bass unit weighs more than a complete SCM11! The same SLMT mid/bass drive units are also used in the SCM20ASL Professional monitors.

As with the SCM11's the SCM19's with their closed box design and more importantly flat and honest presentation enables them to be placed close to walls without the LF getting itself into a twist.

Fwiw, i believe SCM19 monitors to probably be the finest VFM standmount designs currently available on the market regardless of price.

Studio Control Monitor by Old School Engineers

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[stpierre76]

Hi rick,

thanks for your reply and interest.Good to see somebody passionate about the product they sell.I am indeed seriously considering swapping speakers but i guess i am a bit stuck in the old way, "if its too good to be true then it is".Also, with hifi, it seems that the more money you spend the better the product is.That may be the case generally, that s 3 products i recently audition and found them far superior to major brands.As such, i use to have a cyrus pre xpd and 8 power, but was not satisfied with the dac.I embarked in a dac hunt and ended auditioning the wyred for sound dac2, plus the matching integrated.I am blown away by this brand in regards to value for money.It leaves the cyrus gear for dead.No disregard to cyrus, it was a great product but...So now i have a little voice at the back of my head that keeps saying the same about speakers.disregard looks and finish,close your eyes and listen to the music.

I am glad you brought up the 20 series as did try and google it, but not much on it.M keen to know more about them and eventually audition them.

What about the atc scm40?Are they quite boomy.In my HT room, i have the focal chorus 826, and did try them in the hifi area, but way too much bass for the room(4m x 4m), which lead me to buy standmounts(electra 1008be).Would the 40 be too much for such a room.?better keep with the 19?

sincerely yours john

 

[MUSICRAFT]

stpierre76:
Hi rick,

thanks for your reply and interest.Good to see somebody passionate about the product they sell.I am indeed seriously considering swapping speakers but i guess i am a bit stuck in the old way, "if its too good to be true then it is".Also, with hifi, it seems that the more money you spend the better the product is.That may be the case generally, that s 3 products i recently audition and found them far superior to major brands.As such, i use to have a cyrus pre xpd and 8 power, but was not satisfied with the dac.I embarked in a dac hunt and ended auditioning the wyred for sound dac2, plus the matching integrated.I am blown away by this brand in regards to value for money.It leaves the cyrus gear for dead.No disregard to cyrus, it was a great product but...So now i have a little voice at the back of my head that keeps saying the same about speakers.disregard looks and finish,close your eyes and listen to the music.

I am glad you brought up the 20 series as did try and google it, but not much on it.M keen to know more about them and eventually audition them.

What about the atc scm40?Are they quite boomy.In my HT room, i have the focal chorus 826, and did try them in the hifi area, but way too much bass for the room(4m x 4m), which lead me to buy standmounts(electra 1008be).Would the 40 be too much for such a room.?better keep with the 19?

sincerely yours john

Hi John

Your welcome.

I am sorry for not replying sooner as your thread slipped my mind

and i hate to say it but i'll now be tied up for a while so i'll try and respond asap. I am sorry for any inconvenience this has/may cause.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[plastic penguin]

stpierre76:

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anybody ever made a direcr comparaison of the atc 19 vs focal electra standmount or B&W 805.The reason i ask, is that on the week end i audition the atc11 and was amazed.I beleive that the 19 are another step up but dealer had sold his last pair so couldn t tell.Given the price defference between the atc 19 and focal 1008be electra(my speakers) of around 1000 quid, m not sure the focal are 50% better.I know the focals are all hand made in france, whereas atc cabinets are outsourced, the focals finish is impressive but surely it does not add 1000 quids.Same goes for the 805.

If you have not noticed yet, i guess, i m seriously considering swapping.As always i would love to hear your views and opinions regarding that matter.

sincerely yours john

These retail guys will try and impress with "Studio Control Monitor by old school" and "if you like the SCM11s you'll love the 19s..." and other techno rubbish.

Forget all the nonsense, go and listen to three different pairs, including ATC, and let your ears decide.

 

[Craig M.]

well, i'm not a retail guy but, if you like the 11s you'll love the 19s.

 

[BenLaw]

plastic penguin:

These retail guys will try and impress with "Studio Control Monitor by old school" and "if you like the SCM11s you'll love the 19s..." and other techno rubbish.

I'm not sure either of those phrases counts as 'techno' in any way. Although you could indeed go and find some measurements for the ATC's flat frequency response....

Forget all the nonsense, go and listen to three different pairs, including ATC, and let your ears decide.

Agree with that tho

Anyway, I'm no retail guy, but I love my 11s

 

[Anonymous]

i heard a pair of atc scm19s in action today

, hooked up to an atc amp and cyrus cdp, and all icould say was wow

, the best setup i've ever heard, i'm so going to get a pair of them, one day

 

[plastic penguin]

Missing the point of my last post. I wasn't knockin' the ATCs in any shape or form - never have done. the point was if the OP has a decent budget on speakers, 1-2k, for example, then he should have a comparison, regardless of the bias of the retailers, because it's possible the ATCs won't be to the OPs taste.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

MUSICRAFT:stpierre76:
Hi rick,

thanks for your reply and interest.Good to see somebody passionate about the product they sell.I am indeed seriously considering swapping speakers but i guess i am a bit stuck in the old way, "if its too good to be true then it is".Also, with hifi, it seems that the more money you spend the better the product is.That may be the case generally, that s 3 products i recently audition and found them far superior to major brands.As such, i use to have a cyrus pre xpd and 8 power, but was not satisfied with the dac.I embarked in a dac hunt and ended auditioning the wyred for sound dac2, plus the matching integrated.I am blown away by this brand in regards to value for money.It leaves the cyrus gear for dead.No disregard to cyrus, it was a great product but...So now i have a little voice at the back of my head that keeps saying the same about speakers.disregard looks and finish,close your eyes and listen to the music.

I am glad you brought up the 20 series as did try and google it, but not much on it.M keen to know more about them and eventually audition them.

What about the atc scm40?Are they quite boomy.In my HT room, i have the focal chorus 826, and did try them in the hifi area, but way too much bass for the room(4m x 4m), which lead me to buy standmounts(electra 1008be).Would the 40 be too much for such a room.?better keep with the 19?

sincerely yours john

Hi John

Your welcome.

I am sorry for not replying sooner as your thread slipped my mind

and i hate to say it but i'll now be tied up for a while so i'll try and respond asap. I am sorry for any inconvenience this has/may cause.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi John

Firstly i am truly sorry for my late reply as initially your thread slipping my mind i've also been extremely busy over the last few days.

Anyway your welcome and it is good to hear that you are happy with your new WFS components.

I mentioned ATC's 20 Series monitors because SCM19's monitors also have much in common with them (namely the SLMT mid/bass unit). I feel SCM20's really come in to their own in active form so unless you require new amplification and also want the ability to playback at very high levels then SCM19's will be more then good enough (pretty much regardless of associated components used).

If you can accomodate them then amongst the these three the SCM40's are easily a no brainer. The main reason for this is simply down to SCM40's overall using vastly superior drive units to the ones used in SCM19's/SCM20's such as the original studio Soft Dome mid range unit. The studio Soft Dome is capable of covering a frequency range of 300Hz to around 4kHz and also achieves an exceptionally broad and even dispersion, so the reverberant sooundfield matches the on axis sound which results in a flat frequency response almost anywhere in the room. The LF performance of SCM40's has depth but is also clean and tight. From the many SCM40's which i've sold over the last five years i can't recall hearing of SCM40's LF not being even.

Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM standmount designs currently available on the markert regardless of price and SCM40's are overall probably the finest VFM speakers on the markert regardless of desgn or price.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

MUSICRAFT:Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM standmount designs currently available on the markert regardless of price and SCM40's are overall probably the finest VFM speakers on the markert regardless of desgn or price...I'd have to disagree. That crown goes to Dynaudio, or Sonus Faber, or the Canton reference series.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Grottyash:MUSICRAFT:Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM standmount designs currently available on the markert regardless of price and SCM40's are overall probably the finest VFM speakers on the markert regardless of desgn or price...I'd have to disagree. That crown goes to Dynaudio, or Sonus Faber, or the Canton reference series.

Hi Grottyash

Fair enough. Just my views.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

Grottyash:MUSICRAFT:Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM standmount designs currently available on the markert regardless of price and SCM40's are overall probably the finest VFM speakers on the markert regardless of desgn or price...I'd have to disagree. That crown goes to Dynaudio, or Sonus Faber, or the Canton reference series.If we're talking VFM, my choices wouldn't be particularly expensive, otherwise it defeats the VFM description. For me, it would either be the ATC SCM11, or the KEF Q300 standmount speakers.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Craig M.:well, i'm not a retail guy but, if you like the 11s you'll love the 19s.

Hi Craig M.

If you like the SCM19's you'll love the SCM40's

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a bit late to this thread but I saw it on my phone and made a mental note to comment...

I listen to B&W 805s a lot (not at home) and I have ATC SCM40s at home. I've also heard Focal standmounts in the same room as the 805s and elsewhere.

I rate B&W speakers, the tweeters are the best I have heard. Not harsh but extending further than my hearing and giving totally pure triangles, shakers, tambourines etc when partnered with suitable electronics. No mean feat. However, the midrange and bottom end on the 805s does not compare with the ATC SCM40s. The ATC 75mm dome has a reputation for a reason, it is superb.I also love the sealed box bass tightness. The port on the 805s tends to let a lot of midrange out and they sound a little muddy in comparison. As standmounts of course they do not extend as low as the SCM40s and are missing that bottom octave.On balance, I take that ATC midrange and bass over the B&W treble.

Studio mix engineers comment that they struggle to get vocal levels right on B&Ws whereas they nail it first time on ATCs. B&Ws may be used in Abbey Road but Abbey Road records a lot of orchestral material, which they are very good for with those tweeters.In my experience, other studios if they don't have ATCs use Genelecs.

I'll only make brief comment on the Focals. I find that the treble bites my head off, really nasty and headache-inducing, on a par with bad KEFs. Didn't get on with them at all. Also the 2-way design's midrange is not a patch on the ATCs. They also seem to put a fake hi-fi sheen on everything, unlike the honest ATC and B&W speakers with their studio monitor heritage.

I did once listen to some B&W 804s (floorstanders) and whilst they were very impressive, combining the wonderful B&W tweeters with that extra bottom octave, as ported speakers I don't think they would have integrated as well into my living room as the sealed box ATCs (and I do have a thing about sealed box timing). Also, the difference in price is incredible, the B&W's are so expensive. I completely agree that the ATCs are the best value. Around £2k for ATC floorstanders compared to nearly £6k for the B&W 804s ?!?! They are not worth that much more IMO. My wife even prefers the look of the ATCs, the cabinets are incidentally built in the UK, I have seen the component parts in the factory myself.

I do not work for B&W, ATC or in retail. This is my personal opinion. Thanks for reading!

Matt

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hifi test monkey:
I'm a bit late to this thread but I saw it on my phone and made a mental note to comment...

I listen to B&W 805s a lot (not at home) and I have ATC SCM40s at home. I've also heard Focal standmounts in the same room as the 805s and elsewhere.

I rate B&W speakers, the tweeters are the best I have heard. Not harsh but extending further than my hearing and giving totally pure triangles, shakers, tambourines etc when partnered with suitable electronics. No mean feat. However, the midrange and bottom end on the 805s does not compare with the ATC SCM40s. The ATC 75mm dome has a reputation for a reason, it is superb.I also love the sealed box bass tightness. The port on the 805s tends to let a lot of midrange out and they sound a little muddy in comparison. As standmounts of course they do not extend as low as the SCM40s and are missing that bottom octave.On balance, I take that ATC midrange and bass over the B&W treble.

Studio mix engineers comment that they struggle to get vocal levels right on B&Ws whereas they nail it first time on ATCs. B&Ws may be used in Abbey Road but Abbey Road records a lot of orchestral material, which they are very good for with those tweeters.In my experience, other studios if they don't have ATCs use Genelecs.

I'll only make brief comment on the Focals. I find that the treble bites my head off, really nasty and headache-inducing, on a par with bad KEFs. Didn't get on with them at all. Also the 2-way design's midrange is not a patch on the ATCs. They also seem to put a fake hi-fi sheen on everything, unlike the honest ATC and B&W speakers with their studio monitor heritage.

I did once listen to some B&W 804s (floorstanders) and whilst they were very impressive, combining the wonderful B&W tweeters with that extra bottom octave, as ported speakers I don't think they would have integrated as well into my living room as the sealed box ATCs (and I do have a thing about sealed box timing). Also, the difference in price is incredible, the B&W's are so expensive. I completely agree that the ATCs are the best value. Around £2k for ATC floorstanders compared to nearly £6k for the B&W 804s ?!?! They are not worth that much more IMO. My wife even prefers the look of the ATCs, the cabinets are incidentally built in the UK, I have seen the component parts in the factory myself.

I do not work for B&W, ATC or in retail. This is my personal opinion. Thanks for reading!

Matt

Hi Matt

Good post.

With ATC its a case of two down and one to go. ATC have certainly nailed the design of their state of the art bass and mid range drive units. Just their own HF designs to come through now. Firstly there will be a 34mm HF unit which will feature in SCM200/SCM300 monitors. Work on the 34mm HF design is now completed. Secondly there will also be a 25mm HF unit which will feature in their other monitors. Delevopement of the 25mm unit is underway.

ATC's drive units (particularly the SLMT and Super Soft Dome) when actively driven by their own professional amplifiers offer truly breathtaking levels of performance. I guess you heard these when at the factory?

Btw, as far as i am aware cabinets for the Entry Series are sourced outside the UK. For most (if not all the rest of the ranges) cabinets are from sourced from within the UK.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

Excellent, informed post Matt

Rick, is the 34mm HF unit in production now? And is there any best guess at a time frame on the 25mm? Would love my 40s to have them when I'm finally able to upgrade......

 

[MattSPL]

I used to own a pair of scm19's. They are the best 2 way speaker ive owned, and the best 2 way ive heard.

Stunning midrange clarity and extremely tight, controlled sound.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

BenLaw:Excellent, informed post Matt

Rick, is the 34mm HF unit in production now? And is there any best guess at a time frame on the 25mm? Would love my 40s to have them when I'm finally able to upgrade......

Hi BenLaw

The last i heard ATC were producing the first 34mm HF production test samples

I wouldn't be surprised if ATC's 25mm HF unit was not released year. Realistically i think we'll see their 25mm HF unit next year or even in 2013.

Either way this should hopefully not deter you from upgrading to SCM40's as a) SCM40's are already excellent monitors and b) in all probability when ATC's 25mm is released it will be retrofittable to the SCM40's. A perfect icing on the cake

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

maxflinn:i heard a pair of atc scm19s in action today

, hooked up to an atc amp and cyrus cdp, and all icould say was wow

, the best setup i've ever heard, i'm so going to get a pair of them, one day

Hi maxflinn

I am glad you enjoyed listening to the ATC components

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

MUSICRAFT:

The last i heard ATC were producing the first 34mm HF production test samples

I wouldn't be surprised if ATC's 25mm HF unit was not released year. Realistically i think we'll see their 25mm HF unit next year or even in 2013.

Either way this should deter you from upgrading to SCM40's as a) SCM40's are already excellent monitors and b) in all probability when ATC's 25mm is released it will be retrofittable to the SCM40's. A perfect icing on the cake

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick,

thanks for the info

It's exciting stuff anyway, as you say 2 out of 3 at the moment and given ATC's heritage with pro drivers I'm sure it will become 3 out of 3 when the 25mm tweeter is out. Will be interesting to see a new WHF review then....

And don't worry, it won't put me off getting some 40s

Great to hear it can be retrofitted

Cheers,
Ben

 

[MUSICRAFT]

BenLaw:MUSICRAFT:

The last i heard ATC were producing the first 34mm HF production test samples

I wouldn't be surprised if ATC's 25mm HF unit was not released year. Realistically i think we'll see their 25mm HF unit next year or even in 2013.

Either way this should deter you from upgrading to SCM40's as a) SCM40's are already excellent monitors and b) in all probability when ATC's 25mm is released it will be retrofittable to the SCM40's. A perfect icing on the cake

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi Rick,

thanks for the info

It's exciting stuff anyway, as you say 2 out of 3 at the moment and given ATC's heritage with pro drivers I'm sure it will become 3 out of 3 when the 25mm tweeter is out. Will be interesting to see a new WHF review then....

And don't worry, it won't put me off getting some 40s

Great to hear it can be retrofitted

Cheers,
Ben

Hi Ben

Your welcome.

Looking at their other drive units ATC's HF unit will also probably need a crane to lift it up

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BA78]

Hi,

I can comment on the ATC SCM40's.

I used to own a pair of ATC SCM12's on target stands, driven by NAD PRE/POWER combo which i found worked very well. such perfect bookshelf speakers in all regards. Most of all they knew how to communicate to the listener, it was the midrange and focus that kept me entertained for hours. had them for 3 years and thought i want more of what ATC can do. Then as of a few months ago i purchased the SCM40's and ATC SIA2 150. VERY impressive!!. great bass extension, less glare on the midrange and a sweeter hi frequencies. they have this sense of absolute no strain, and when positioned right, a huge encompassing soundstage. Most importantly they sound tonally accurate and alive. i've listened to other speakers, but none gave a sense of being real with the listener as the ATC's do. most hype up or create their own sound signature. ATC go against this and try to be accurate, but also keep you listening for hours.