ATC SCM7, SCM11 with Nait 5i/CD5i

[chebby]

A friend of mine is just about to replace his Focal floor standers with a pair of ATC SCM11's to join his Primare i30. (They are on order.)

I have been planning a 'downsize'' in speaker from floor-standers to a stand-mount/bookshelf/small monitor type for some time and could be doing so soon.

I have not heard either SCM7 or SCM11 but will get the chance soon with my friend's new ones.

My Nait 5i is not as powerful as his Primare and I don't listen at the higher volume levels he enjoys and I listen at a closer distance across the width of a 13' x 21' room from about 8' away at 6' seperation.

His listening includes much Heavy Metal along with large symphonic classical and my listening is typically more acoustic and jazz, ska, reggae, pop, speech, baroque and early classical. Therefore the 'heaviest' music I play is something like (as an example) George Thoroughgood & the Destroyers.

I am therefore thinking of getting a pair of ATC SCM7's (if his SCM11's are as good as they are supposed to be).

There are a few questions....

Is the Nait 5i up to the job of SCM7's? (If not, I would get different speakers rather than change amp.)

Is the finish on ATC SCM speakers really as bad as some people - like my local hifi dealer - describes? (It will be a couple of weeks before I actually get to see this for myself.)

Can the SCM7's work againt a wall, or on wallmounts, or even on bookshelves?

Can the SCM7's 'sing' even at relatively modest/evening-time/'neighbours in & windows open' type volume levels?

 

[jaxwired]

chebby: Can the SCM7's 'sing' even at relatively modest/evening-time/'neighbours in & windows open' type volume levels?

Not sure about the 7s, but I think I've read multiple reviews on the scm11s that have commented on how their one weakness is that they are not good a low volume levels. They need mid to high volume before they sound great. Just passing along reviewer comments. I've no personal experience.

On the other hand, a very well liked speaker that is especially good at low volume is the PMC TB2i. Or the DB2i (about the size of the scm7s).

 

[plastic penguin]

chebby:

A friend of mine is just about to replace his Focal floor standers with a pair of ATC SCM11's to join his Primare i30. (They are on order.)

I have been planning a 'downsize'' in speaker from floor-standers to a stand-mount/bookshelf/small monitor type for some time and could be doing so soon.

I have not heard either SCM7 or SCM11 but will get the chance soon with my friend's new ones.

My Nait 5i is not as powerful as his Primare and I don't listen at the higher volume levels he enjoys and I listen at a closer distance across the width of a 13' x 21' room from about 8' away at 6' seperation.

His listening includes much Heavy Metal along with large symphonic classical and my listening is typically more acoustic and jazz, ska, reggae, pop, speech, baroque and early classical. Therefore the 'heaviest' music I play is something like (as an example) George Thoroughgood & the Destroyers.

I am therefore thinking of getting a pair of ATC SCM7's (if his SCM11's are as good as they are supposed to be).

There are a few questions....

Is the Nait 5i up to the job of SCM7's? (If not, I would get different speakers rather than change amp.)

Is the finish on ATC SCM speakers really as bad as some people - like my local hifi dealer - describes? (It will be a couple of weeks before I actually get to see this for myself.)

Can the SCM7's work againt a wall, or on wallmounts, or even on bookshelves?

Can the SCM7's 'sing' even at relatively modest/evening-time/'neighbours in & windows open' type volume levels?

When I was invited to 'The Towers' to do the The Big Question one of the blind tests was Nait 5i/Cyrus CD6SE/SCM11 and it had such a ballsy sound.....it was very good indeed. Not heard the smaller siblings, I would guess it would have similar traits minus a touch of all-round grip.

 

[Frank Harvey]

chebby: Is the Nait 5i up to the job of SCM7's? (If not, I would get different speakers rather than change amp.)I'll refer you to a demo I did recently, which I've mentioned before, but I think I'll try and elaborate as a few may have misunderstood my meaning.

The demo speakers were SCM11's. The amplification, a Nait 5i with a CD5i. I won't mention the specific track used, but it has quite a low bassline. The system sounded ok, but I felt it needed something else, so I changed over to the XS. The difference in the control of that bassline was huge, and there was far more space around the vocals and higher frequencies - it had opened the 11's up as far as the soundstage depth was concerned.

Now I've mentioned in the past that because the ATC's are a lower sensitivity than the average speaker, they need more current to get them to do what they're supposed to do. I think a lot of people think that this only applies at higher volumes, and that lower volumes aren't an issue for an amplifier, but higher current affects lower volumes as well as high, so even if you only used a high current, 200w amplifier, this will still have an affect on the sound even if you were using it at a few watts per channel. Imagine a Ford Ka with a 5 litre engine (and obviously far higher horsepower - which I'll equate to current), even if you drive that Ka around without exceeding 20mph, it will still have more poke. Of course whether the Ka could cope with this is another matter.....

So basically what I'm saying is, the Nait 5i will drive the SCM7 at reasonable volumes, but just don't expect them to sound as they should do, as the SCM range is designed around their own integrated amplifier, which is a higher current design than the Nait 5i, and even the XS.

Is the finish on ATC SCM speakers really as bad as some people - like my local hifi dealer - describes? (It will be a couple of weeks before I actually get to see this for myself.)The finish on the ATC's is fine - you may get the odd extremely minor imperfection, but for the price they are it's no big deal.

Can the SCM7's work againt a wall, or on wallmounts, or even on bookshelves?Due to being a sealed cabinet, and far more neutral than ported speakers, they work fine up against a wall - in fact, they work better in most cases. I'd recommend solid stands as apposed to wall brackets - they'd have to be pretty hefty brackets to hold the ATC's up!

Can the SCM7's 'sing' even at relatively modest/evening-time/'neighbours in & windows open' type volume levels?The answer to this is mostly in the reply to your first question, but smaller speakers do like to be played a little louder than larger ones to bring them to life a little.

jaxwired: Not sure about the 7s, but I think I've read multiple reviews on the scm11s that have commented on how their one weakness is that they are not good a low volume levels. I think one of the reasons for this is what I've said above - they need a high current amplifier to bring out their lower volume performance. Another reason would be as I've also said above - smaller speakers generally need to be turned up a littel more to bring them to life. You can design a speaker to be tonally great at lower volumes and sound nice and lively, but once you turn it up, those changes are exaggerated. I feel a better bookshelf speaker at lower volumes is the DB1i, but that all changes when they're turned up. But I'd still prefer the cleaner bass/midrange of the ATC's anyway.

 

[plastic penguin]

David, unless I'm reading totally wrong - even with a high current amp the ATC's still need to driven well to maximise their full potential don't they? You openly admitted, on my thread DB1 vs ATC SCM11, when comparing to the DB1s the ATC's do lag a little behind. WHIFI when they did a Group test recently commented they need a decent amount of power (100 watt amp advised I think).

 

[Frank Harvey]

The DB1i were more lively at lower volumes, but of all the speakers I heard in that demo, I preferred the 11's as they just sounded far more neutral and balanced to me. Unless you can quote me, I don't believe I've ever said that the DB1i's are better, other than in the instance of an individual needing a speaker for low volumes.

The problem with saying that they need a good 100 watter is that the majority of 100 watters out there aren't necessarily blessed in the current department, although it is a fairly good generalisation to go by. If you take many of the Japanese amplifiers, their paper rated power isn't fully representable of their actual capabilities. In this respect I think many older Japanese amps fair better, before the cost cutting started in the 80's.

 

[plastic penguin]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

The DB1i were more lively at lower volumes, but of all the speakers I heard in that demo, I preferred the 11's as they just sounded far more neutral and balanced to me. Unless you can quote me, I don't believe I've ever said that the DB1i's are better, other than in the instance of an individual needing a speaker for low volumes.

The problem with saying that they need a good 100 watter is that the majority of 100 watters out there aren't necessarily blessed in the current department, although it is a fairly good generalisation to go by. If you take many of the Japanese amplifiers, their paper rated power isn't fully representable of their actual capabilities. In this respect I think many older Japanese amps fair better, before the cost cutting started in the 80's.

Sorry, David, my fault. I didn't finish the sentance off (pesky carers pushing me aside).

What I meant to say was the DB1's are better than the ATC at low levels due to their bass reflex. So given all the evidence, if you need to avoid a confrontation with the neighbours, the PMC's are a better choice.

 

[Craig M.]

i haven't heard the 7's or the 11's, but my 19's are against the party wall with my neighbours, i've told them repeatedly to let me know if my music is ever bothering them, let me know and i'll turn it down, in fact i would prefer it because i wouldn't feel comfortable inflicting my music on their elderly ears. they looked at me a bit oddly and said they'd never heard anything from us. not to say anyone else would find this, but all the same, unless you have very thin walls it shouldn't be a problem. i think my speakers sound fine at anything over conversation sound levels, if they were positioned right up against a wall the bass should be boosted a little whereas the pmc's, imo, would suffer right against a wall.

see what you think of your friends chebby, atc's can take some getting used to after other speakers but once you have i don't think there is anything to touch them. once you've felt how heavy they are you might not fancy chancing wallbrackets.

 

[chebby]

Not avoiding confrontation so much. Just consideration especially during good weather when all of the windows are open.

Mostly because I actually prefer to listen at reasonable levels rather than very loud. (Even if the neighbours are all out and there is no-one else in the house.)

Once the music is turned up loud enough to be exciting/engaging - or whatever it needs to be for it's genre - then nothing much is served by going even louder.

We have solid Edwardian properties with brick cavity walls between us, so no sound bleeds through that way

 

[Craig M.]

sounds like you like to listen at similar levels to me, even when i'm in the mood for belting it out it's barely audible in the garden with windows open.

i know what you mean about consideration, i don't like drawing my neighbours attention towards me, unlike some of them.

 

[plastic penguin]

In pure sonic terms, the ATC's are great. However, sonic brilliance and practicality don't always go hand-in-hand. Given Chebby has his amp on for around 12 hours a day, and for real world listening (when you have friends round for a chin-wag or kids want to read or do the homework) the ATC's would not be my first choice.

 

[Frank Harvey]

plastic penguin:Sorry, David, my fault. I didn't finish the sentance off (pesky carers pushing me aside).

What I meant to say was the DB1's are better than the ATC at low levels due to their bass reflex. So given all the evidence, if you need to avoid a confrontation with the neighbours, the PMC's are a better choice.That's better

Overall yes. But still give the ATC's a go as you may prefer them anyway. I'd also include the ProAc Tablette 8 Sigs as well.

The demo I was referring to were all up against the wall, across the narrow length of our demo room, and played at lower volumes. All performed well.

 

[Frank Harvey]

plastic penguin:However, sonic brilliance and practicality don't always go hand-in-hand.True. Extremely rare.

 

[chebby]

Given all the above I will need to re-asess ATC SCM7's as an option.

 

[Craig M.]

wait until your friend has his run in and decide then. i'm really not sure what pp means. atc are the most practical speakers i've owned. they don't care where you put them, what you play on them, or for me having lived with them, what volume they are played at. yes, some pmc's will have a more bloomy bass against a wall at whisper quiet levels, but as soon as you move the volume up the bass will be overblown. i've had db1's on demo they needed about 20 - 30 cm behind them. if i wanted something in the background while i was talking to friends, i think a clock radio would suffice. what happens with mine is people come round, music is playing, the conversation keeps stopping while they say "god, that sounds good". you need to give them time though, because their totally neutral character can take some getting used to.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:The amplification, a Nait 5i with a CD5i. I won't mention the specific track used, but it has quite a low bassline. The system sounded ok, but I felt it needed something else, so I changed over to the XS. The difference in the control of that bassline was huge, and there was far more space around the vocals and higher frequencies - it had opened the 11's up as far as the soundstage depth was concerned.

Sigh.

Chebby, just try a demo and see for yourself. You won't need a 5 litre Ka - unless you really want to upgrade and spend more money, and only then if you think it's worth it.

Is the Nait 5i up to the job of SCM7s?

People run ATC SCM40s with low power amplifiers, the 7s are the smallest in the range - try them.

Is the finish on ATC SCM speakers really as bad as some people - like my local hifi dealer - describes?

No, it's fine.

Can the SCM7's work againt a wall, or on wallmounts, or even on bookshelves?

Yes, yes and (I'm guessing) yes (someone else might be able to fill you in).

Can the SCM7's 'sing' even at relatively modest/evening-time/'neighbours in & windows open' type volume levels?

Try it.

 

[chebby]

Graham_Thomas:Sigh.

Chebby, just try a demo and see for yourself.

Why the sigh?

Not possible to 'see' for myself'. No dealers anywhere near here nor anywhere near this county. I would have to... "buy them to try them". Hence the questions.

 

[plastic penguin]

chebby:

Graham_Thomas:Sigh. Chebby, just try a demo and see for yourself.

Why the sigh?

Not possible to 'see' for myself'. No dealers anywhere near here nor anywhere near this county. I would have to... "buy them to try them". Hence the questions.

Have exactly the same problem. There is just no ATC dealers in the Surrey area, apart from one (he claims to be one) but never has stocks to demo.

 

[plarge]

The Nait will drive the ATCs - and will sound good, BUT the nait seems to work better when comfortable - I'm having the same issue with my Nait and Talismans - sounds good, can get a little harsh and compressed - but an amp with more clout (Primare I30/ 152/155 ) will drive them far better -

However, put the Nait with speakers it "Likes" (amazing results with the Leema Xone and Monitor Audio Rx6) and it will provide musicality in bucketloads.

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin:chebby:

Graham_Thomas:Sigh. Chebby, just try a demo and see for yourself.

Why the sigh?

Not possible to 'see' for myself'. No dealers anywhere near here nor anywhere near this county. I would have to... "buy them to try them". Hence the questions.

Have exactly the same problem. There is just no ATC dealers in the Surrey area, apart from one (he claims to be one) but never has stocks to demo.

Sorry, the sigh wasn't meant to be anything to you chebby/pp. I wouldn't advocate buying anything without a demo though, although I have done so myself in the past.

You could always sell on if not suitable, although that's an extreme (or save a search on eBay is an option?).

You're both welcome to visit me and bring your amps along (and I mean it) if you're in the Durham area with work or something.......

 

[Craig M.]

chebby, try giving rick at musicraft a bell, he stocks naim so might be able to set your mind at ease - i've found him very knowledgeable regarding amplifiers. there is more to an amp then watts and current figures. maybe you could come to an arrangement regarding a demo? not trying to push anything at you, just that i, like a lot of others it seems, had a bit of an epiphany when i got mine. as has been stated before, he uses a 50 watt nad to demo the scm40's and he told me he's even used a 3020 with atc!

 

[Anonymous]

Got parking for an artic outside ? ...Cheers for the offer .... Hi Chebby , dont worry mate you will hear them soon enough , i cant wait .... never heard ATCs before but i know they are the missing link to my system .... pop up with the Naim and try it out with the ATCs . could be interesting ..

 

[Frank Harvey]

Graham_Thomas:FrankHarveyHiFi:The amplification, a Nait 5i with a CD5i. I won't mention the specific track used, but it has quite a low bassline. The system sounded ok, but I felt it needed something else, so I changed over to the XS. The difference in the control of that bassline was huge, and there was far more space around the vocals and higher frequencies - it had opened the 11's up as far as the soundstage depth was concerned. Sigh.I take that sigh as either you think I'm full of bull or you don't really understand what I'm talking about. I'm trying to educate - if you don't want to listen that's fine, but others do, and have. I'm not trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes here.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Craig M.: chebby, try giving rick at musicraft a bell, he stocks naim so might be able to set your mind at ease So do I, and have dealt with Naim for almost 20 years - so what makes me different? I'm giving the best advice I can here for the benefit of forum members, just to be questioned or slated for what I say (by a select few), regardless of what that may be. But that's ok, as I'm going to continue to give the best advice I can, because I know there are people reading this forum, and this thread (many of whom don't even post) that are taking note of what's said.

I'll continue to post what I think, or know, is right.