ATC Concept 3 A/V Amp/Pro

[admin_exported]

Hi,
I have a pair of ATC SCM19s. I'm looking at getting the ATC Concept 3 package which includes 2 pairs of ATC SCM11s an ATC C3 Centre and ATC C4 Sub. This will then be a 7.1 with SCM19s as the Front L&R and SCM11s as surrounds. What amplification do you suggest and what pre/pro for the AV/HT side.
I've been thinking maybe Mono Xs for the SCM19s an X Power in mono for the C3C and an X Power in stereo for each pair of SCM11s. Then a DACXP to the Mono Xs for the SCM19s and the Marantz AV8003 as the HT pre/pro (running that into the DACXP for the fronts and directly to the power amps for the other speakers).
What do you guys suggest? Is this a good idea or are there better options/brands/models? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I've also had a suggestion of using the Yamaha Z11 instead of the Cyrus amps and Marantz pre/pro. What do you think of this option?

Regards,
Beta4Me

 

[Frank Harvey]

The ATC speakers are quite a low sensitivity, so need a fair amount of current behind them to get the best from them. We've had the SCM11's being driven by a Nait XS, which is a fairly high current amp, but they just want more. Many AV amps aren't goin to provide even as much current as a Nait 5i, so you'd have to be looking something like the DSPZ11 if considering one box amps. If you want to get as much as you can musically from them, then you'll need to be looking at AV pre/powers.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I have used the Yamaha DSPZ-11 constantly for almost five months now (also with higher spec/higher priced ATC speakers both passive/active) and the DSP-Z11 has had the performance (two channel/multi channel) and power to open up the potential of those superb ATC drive units. So therefore the DSP-Z11 is also more than capable of working with the ATC's that are being considered with most of them mentioned that i have also extensively and happily used the DSP-Z11 with.

The ATC's superb uncoloured, neutral and dynamic capabilities have shown some limitations in some other AV amplification that i have used with them whereas the DSP-Z11 has found it easier. I have customers who have purchased ATC speakers and i have also used and sold a number of stereo/av amps with ATC speakers which are not up to the qualities of the DSP-Z11 and yet these amps have happily got on with the ATC speakers.

It takes some time but i have also found over the years (again-sorry!) due to their uncoloured,neutral, dynamic and natural performance that i can play ATC products at low to moderate levels without feeling that i am missing anything. The irony is that when i come across some other products (of higher sensitivity) i now find myself having to play them at much higher levels!

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply to this question for a second time (you're senna91
aren't you

).

Any other a/v amplifiers to check out--Pioneer
SC-LX90??? It looks awesome, will it sound awesome too (i.e. with the
ATCs)!?! Also (a question for everybody else only

), how's the Cyrus options I suggested above?

Thanks and Regards,
Beta4Me

 

[Anonymous]

Also any particularly good A/V separates that would suit well?

 

[Anonymous]

Bump back to front page of H/C.

 

[Anonymous]

What about the Arcam AVR600? What Hi Fi's review is on this web-site.

Otherwise, check out Widescreen Review's review here:

http://www.arcam.co.uk/_ugc/file/avr600wsr-web.pdf

Otherwise, for a separate Processor and Power Amplifier, I would recommend in no particular order the Marantz AV8003/MM8003, upcoming Arcam AV888/P777, NAD M15HD/M25.

Dan.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Beta4Me:

Thanks for the reply to this question for a second time (you're senna91 aren't you

).

Any other a/v amplifiers to check out--Pioneer SC-LX90??? It looks awesome, will it sound awesome too (i.e. with the ATCs)!?! Also (a question for everybody else only

), how's the Cyrus options I suggested above?

Thanks and Regards,
Beta4Me

Hi B4M

Many of the AV amps and AV processors/power amps are very good (especially at this price level) but i have found the Yamaha DSP-Z11 has been happier with ATC speakers of various qualities.

The DSPZ-11 will provide an excellent platform for years to come. Suitable power amps can be added later on to work with the DSPZ-11 and the ATC speakers.

The ATC speakers have shown me (after nearly five months of constant use ) the DSPZ-11's ability to create a superb soundfield, it's overall performance and power on offer with no fatigue. And it gets better and better. Too many options to tweak!

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

Beta4Me: Any other a/v amplifiers to check out--Pioneer SC-LX90??? It looks awesome, will it sound awesome too (i.e. with the ATCs)!?! Also (a question for everybody else only

), how's the Cyrus options I suggested above.After comparing the SCLX90 to the DSPZ11 recently, I found the LX90 to lack the grunt of the Z11, and ran a hell of a lot hotter too, even though it's supposedly digital amplification. Personally, I'd stick with the DSPZ11.

The Arcam would be the main one box contender for driving awkward speakers loads. It'll drive KEF Reference happily for hours on end (as it did at our KEF/Arcam evening last year), and doesn't sound out of place with high end/low impedance speakers like many other amps would do at a similar price point.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess the question for me is one-box or separates (or individual power amps & pre/pro).

Ultimately I think it will come back to the Arcam AVR600 vs the Yamaha Z11. This is mainly due to the convenience factor. It's a hell of a lot easier to have one-box rather than a Pre/Pro, DACXP, 3 Mono Xs, 2 X Powers and between 1 & 3 PSX-Rs

. Not to mention all the extra interconnects required

.

Choices, choices, choices...

Oh, btw, which do you guys think sounds better musically the AVR600 or Z11 (or the Cyrus--I'd be using Missing Link interconnected). Musical ability does weigh heavily on this decision as it sort of will be its primary purpose (albeit I will actually use it more often for tv/movies). Also how's the Marantz AV/MM8003 combo?

In the end though I probably will demo them all anyway, but I'd still like your opinions. Also, if anyone has any further suggestions regarding which separates or one-box solutions (even solutions like my Cyrus one) they'd be much appreciated.

Thanks again!!!

 

[Anonymous]

I reckon go the Arcam AVR600 - unless you require the extra "presence" channels of the Yamaha 'Z11.

The Arcam is significantly cheaper, too, which is a good thing.

The Marantz AV8003 is very good, but I don't think it would be as musical as the Arcam (especially for 2-channel analogue sources). The MM8003 Power Amplifier is really not as powerful as its power claims suggest.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Would the extra presence channels of the Z11 be useful for biamping though? Potentially biamp my fronts and centre or something? Also, I reside in Australia so I'm not entirely sure what the pricing is like. From the little bit of pricing research I have done it appears the price gap between the Yamaha and Arcam is not so great here. From one place the AVR600 is $8000 (AUD) and the Z11 $8500 (AUD). Thanks for the reply. The question then is, because price difference is essentially a non-issue, which would be the better buy--ultimately the primary focus being stereo?

 

[Anonymous]

I am from Australia, too, mate.

I would say the Arcam AVR600, since 2-channel stereo is the focus.

Yes, it would be okay to bi-amp your fronts with the "presence" channels, however, they are only 50-watts per channel and hence have lower power out-puts than the non-presence channels.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

OK thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll have fun auditioning all this gear. If you don't mind me asking what city are you from (and subsequently where have you bought/found prices for hi-fi/hc gear)?.

Regards,
Beta4Me

 

[Anonymous]

I am from Perth, mate. Most of my gear have come from Sound Advice in the City, my Sony Blu-ray Disc Player from Sony Centre in the City, my Marantz AV8003 from Douglas Hi Fi in the City.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers, mate. I wonder if there are any Victorian residents that know of some good hi-fi places round the state? Just thinking about it, I've seen a really good deal on an ex-dem Marantz AV/MM8003 combo for about $5500-$6000 (can't remember price exactly). If I were to buy this and then I didn't like it (the whole thing) or just the power amp what's the best way to sell it off etc.? How would you go about it if you were selling your AV8003 to buy the AV888? Also, if I were potentially to get the MM8003, what would the best power amps for my ATCs be? How would the the 8003 go with the Cyrus amps solution I suggested in the first post?

Cheers,
Beta4Me

 

[Anonymous]

There are several good hi-fi stores in Victoria. Carlton Audio Visual in Carlton is a very good one. They stock heaps of good hi-fi gear there.

If you can purchase the Marantz AV8003 and MM8003 combination for that kind of money, that would be an incredible deal for you.

I would strongly suggest to audition some gear before committing to anything, to reduce your losses.

Otherwise, should you purchase them but not like them, then you could trade them in for something else (and hence make a substantial loss - however, you might not lose so much if you purchase an ex-demo pair) or you can try to sell them privately.

I shall provide you a link below to an Australian Forum, of which I am a regular part of, where people discuss hi-fi stuff, home theatre stuff, TV's, projectors, etc. People also sell their used gear there (not always easy trying to sell used gear. However, a lot of the guys there are from Victoria, so your chances won't be too bad of trying to sell used gear on DTV Forum):

http://dtvforum.info

If I were to purchase an Arcam AV888 (due to be released in Australia mid July 2009), I would look to trade-in my Marantz AV8003 with the retailer.

Power Amplifier to match the Marantz AV8003? I own a NAD Masters Series M25 7 x 160-watt Power Amplifier; it is an awesome Power Amplifier. RRP is $5,999.00.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the other forum link. I have been to Carlton Audio Visual to audition some Cyrus gear, they are good and know their stuff. A tad dear but most things in Australia are, hence my desire to potentially import (only thing will be the bloody warranties

). And, yes, I will make sure I audition!

 

[Anonymous]

Another pre/pro I've recently discovered and have been researching is the Cary Cinema 11a. What do you guys think about this generally and specifically for my (hopefully-soon-to-be-complete) ATC surround system?

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Looking at costs, a further potential option is the Denon POAA1HD as it is comparable to 3 x Mono X + 2 x X Power (potentially + 2 x PSX-R) [All Repro]. How might this compare to the Cyrus separates for both hi-fi and movies?

Thanks & Regards,
Beta4Me

 

[Anonymous]

The Denon POA-A1HD 10 x 150-watt Power Amplifier is an awesome Power Amplifier. In Australia, the RRP is $14,999.00. Don't think it is very good value, but it is no doubt a very good Power Amplifier.

For convenience, having a 'one-box' Power Amplifier like this one is a reasonably good idea. I haven't listened to those Cyrus gear, so I unfortunately cannot comment on them.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah Denon is rubbish value here in Oz. The importers are greedy no doubt. Cost isn't an issue in the sense that I can import some of these things to acheive the best value for money. Cyrus makes some great stuff, mate. You gotta go have a listen some time. Also check out Leema and Plinius

But seriously, Cyrus is awesome.

I guess I need someone that has heard the Cyrus X Powers and/or Mono X as well as the Denon POA-A1HD. Anyone? WHF Team?

 

[Anonymous]

I know that Cyrus is awesome, mate. I am actually the person who helped bring Cyrus gear into Perth, so to speak. I showed interest in Cyrus gear, and spoke with my local retailer (whom I purchase most of my gear from) and he started getting Cyrus gear in and is now a Cyrus retailer here in Perth. I believe that I am the first owner of a Cyrus CD 8 SE CD Player here in Perth.

I have listened to the Denon POA-A1HD and AVP-A1HD in action. The sound quality (powering Paradigm Signature loudspeakers) is sensational. However, like you said, the greed here from Audio Products Group (who imports Denon stuff, among other brands) has pushed me away from Denon products. Apart from the range-topping Denon's (AVC-A1HD, and AVP-A1HD and POA-A1HD combination), the Denon's are - in my humble opinion - not class leaders in audio performance, yet demand top dollars (which to me is completely unjustifiable).

What about the Arcam AVR600 or upcoming Arcam AV888 Processor and P777 7-channel Power Amplifier)?

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice job. Perth owes you a favour

I could probably go for the AVR600 (I've got to buy my speakers first, then listen to it), but the AV888/P777 is probably out of my price range unfortunately. I'm sure it would sound superb though.