Question Are we gradually killing off amplifier manufacturers?

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Jimboo

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2019
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I agree Scene, but then again I would because I already posted every damn thing you said in my earlier posts. Hi, hum. It's a form of flattery I suppose.
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
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18,545
Not content with an amplifier per se we now expect inbuilt DACs, Bluetooth, streaming facilities and who knows what else.
Being forced to include items like this and then build a device to a particular budget means cost savings somewhere.
Hi,
I would never purchase a product that had extras such a built in DAC, or streaming. The more complex the equipment, and the more multi-functional, then the problem will be if one function fails, then it is repair, replace the unit or purchase another product to replace the function failed.

I have never been into box swapping, but separates are always the preference, since there is always a new way of doing things, and purchasing an extra box is cheaper than replacing existing.

If you read reviews - some magazines show you the insides of the product, and this can let you gauge whether the product is value for money.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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Al ears

Moderator
Nov 23, 2008
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I think I sort of agree with scene, the modern requirement for an amplifier to be so much more than just an amplifier but it needs to be available for a bargain price has basically asked for inbuilt redundancy, the idea that you can build a Swiss Army Knife and sell it for peanuts without compromising longevity of that product is insane.
Some manufacturers try to but then find equipment failures give them a very bad name and hence their product sales suffer.
 

Jimboo

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2019
257
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570
I think I sort of agree with scene, the modern requirement for an amplifier to be so much more than just an amplifier but it needs to be available for a bargain price has basically asked for inbuilt redundancy, the idea that you can build a Swiss Army Knife and sell it for peanuts without compromising longevity of that product is insane.
Some manufacturers try to but then find equipment failures give them a very bad name and hence their product sales suffer.
Sorry, give me an example of a cheap hifi product known for failing quicker than it should. As a former naim user I can tell you that my A400 came out of the loft a couple of times because of premier component failure.
If you put electronic boards together in one box instead of three it is cheaper and hardly asks for inbuilt redundancy. How do you honestly come to that conclusion? Bluetooth and dac's can be cheap and with demand will naturally be cheaper. The second hand vintage market is still bouyant for cheap NAD products and the like that are running on cheap boards with thirty year old technology little decade old lasers still go back and forward and their tuppenny doors open and shut for decades.
Your Luddite views😀 are understandably coming to the fore because it is hard to accept the changes in hi fi. T.vs , cookers and cars all cram in a Swiss army knife of once expensive products . They all get cheaper, better, slimmer etc.
It's bad for business to have your customer not buy a new amp for twenty years and bad for business if it breaks after two months. Software is where the longevity is compromised and needs you to believe that cd quality is improved by say Hi-Res and something unfolding.
In answer to the question amps are not being killed off but their place,position and looks as well as what they are a part of has forever changed.
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
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10,670
Really it boils down to 2 types of users and it doesn’t fail.

There’s the good enough consumer

Then there’s the I want the best I can afford consumer.

And one market is bigger than the other. And unfortunately one market is worth more and easier to sell too.

On a side note theres nothing wrong with Sonos they are are cheap ish and they have supported there products longer then they have a right to so makes them very good value . Will we be saying the of naim, do they still support the first generation of £3k unitis? Can’t seem to find info on that, but I’m sure there getting close to dropping it.

My out look is to buy things from companies that specialise in certain types of products.

All in one anything eventually goes the way of dodo.
 

Jimboo

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2019
257
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570
Really it boils down to 2 types of users and it doesn’t fail.

There’s the good enough consumer

Then there’s the I want the best I can afford consumer.

And one market is bigger than the other. And unfortunately one market is worth more and easier to sell too.

On a side note theres nothing wrong with Sonos they are are cheap ish and they have supported there products longer then they have a right to so makes them very good value . Will we be saying the of naim, do they still support the first generation of £3k unitis? Can’t seem to find info on that, but I’m sure there getting close to dropping it.

My out look is to buy things from companies that specialise in certain types of products.

All in one anything eventually goes the way of dodo.
Well the two different types of customer is the same one isn't it ?
I cannot think of all in one products that have gone. I can think of plenty that have combined - MP3 player - phone combined. Computer -router combined. Amplifier - dac- Bluetooth - WiFi combined. Radio and amplifiers were combined and still are via dab. 48 different boxes for home cinema into a sound bar. Gee that's a lot of dodo's
Fridge/freezer
TV's without an extra box for watching Netflix/sky and satellite dishes gone
Combi boilers
Washing machines with dryers
Laptops instead of computers .....,...............
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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Well the two different types of customer is the same one isn't it ?
I cannot think of all in one products that have gone. I can think of plenty that have combined - MP3 player - phone combined. Computer -router combined. Amplifier - dac- Bluetooth - WiFi combined. Radio and amplifiers were combined and still are via dab. 48 different boxes for home cinema into a sound bar. Gee that's a lot of dodo's
Fridge/freezer
TV's without an extra box for watching Netflix/sky and satellite dishes gone
Combi boilers
Washing machines with dryers
Laptops instead of computers .....,...............
You can not class a iPhone as Hifi its a phone that just stores music and you can not compare a washing machine to hifi or any other product that has a short life span its a bad example .
Yes Young people do not want lots of boxes like us older people but they do want things like the iphones ,small speakers .
Yes the younger generation want a a one box does it all at a cheap price which company's are making and the technology is out dated as soon as you buy it so when something better comes out they buy it that is what keeps company's going .
But where you draw the line is those of us say in our 30s-60s will still buy Hifi separates and understand that things like amplifiers that do a one job only as this is what they want because if you compare a 2 channel amplifiers with a AV amplifiers you no that the 2 channel amplifier will sound much better then the AV amplifier does .
Why because the AV is made for films mainly so you are paying for the licences for the sound formats so somewhere along the line you get short falls in quality like a smaller power supply then you would get with a 2 channel amplifier but the Av is packed with everything but you do get what you pay for so the more you spend the better the product is but every year company's bring out new AVs with new formats every year .

So i think we have 2 markets of people ...
People in there 30s - onward who still buy Hifi separates who still believe you get what you pay for and want something that lasts who will spend good money in buying something that sounds really good but we are a small part of the market .
Younger people who just do not care who just want music on there Iphone , xbox , radio , Pc , small speaker and so on which is the biggest part of the market unfortunately but that is progress i understand this .

I am not sure if the small part of the market we buy in will carry on as things do change but music doesn't so hopefully there will be some younger people who will carry on where we left off and understands how good music can sound on a good Hifi but we are in the market that the more you spend the better it is and the components used to make them are better but like anything in life it depends how far you want to go and how much money you want to spend .
will expensive last as long as cheap yes and no as you can buy expensive and still go wrong just the same with budget but i could buy a Ferrari car and that could go wrong the same for the cheaper car but both do the same job and take you to A-B but one faster .
 
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Jimboo

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2019
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Is the two grand amp you bought last year better, worse or the same as the slightly dearer mkIi than that comes out n 18 months time and does the five grand amp offer the advertised sonic benefits and is compatible with the same priced other components in your system
Or as a 30 year old living a normal life paying a mortgage do you think we'll I need to keep spending because the technology below that price tag will always be inferior because it is cheaper? And what happens to us if we keep a record player say that is 35 or 40 years old and works and has given us nothing but pleasure. What exactly is the price point where we ditch it . Is it because there are dearer ones available. There will be boxes and super cables and buyers for a while yet. As you hinted us oldies may hang on against the grain. Hifi is changing in ways that mean the old days are dead. The vinyl revival helped the no phono stage amp sales and turntable sales. I doubt it will last (alas)
I could buy a Ferrari . I could get from A-B faster if the roads are clear . I will pay service costs at the price of a good second hand car and repairs will be cripplingly high. Miles of smiles promised. The thing about life is we always seem to be going from A-B . As someone said you should spend at least sometime stopping to smell the flowers.
 

Jimboo

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2019
257
102
570
You can not class a iPhone as Hifi its a phone that just stores music and you can not compare a washing machine to hifi or any other product that has a short life span its a bad example .
The examples were used to disprove the claim that all in one products go the way of the dodo which is clearly wrong.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
207
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4,820
Is the two grand amp you bought last year better, worse or the same as the slightly dearer mkIi than that comes out n 18 months time and does the five grand amp offer the advertised sonic benefits and is compatible with the same priced other components in your system
Or as a 30 year old living a normal life paying a mortgage do you think we'll I need to keep spending because the technology below that price tag will always be inferior because it is cheaper? And what happens to us if we keep a record player say that is 35 or 40 years old and works and has given us nothing but pleasure. What exactly is the price point where we ditch it . Is it because there are dearer ones available. There will be boxes and super cables and buyers for a while yet. As you hinted us oldies may hang on against the grain. Hifi is changing in ways that mean the old days are dead. The vinyl revival helped the no phono stage amp sales and turntable sales. I doubt it will last (alas)
I could buy a Ferrari . I could get from A-B faster if the roads are clear . I will pay service costs at the price of a good second hand car and repairs will be cripplingly high. Miles of smiles promised. The thing about life is we always seem to be going from A-B . As someone said you should spend at least sometime stopping to smell the flowers.
You will always get the people in life who have and the have not's that is life people spend there money on different things but people will always spend more money on something they enjoy the most take holidays , golf ,drinking , drugs , buying cars as everyone has something .
Do i think budget is the same as high-end no but both do the same job but one sounds tones better as long as you buy right why do you think people who buy budget are never happy and keep changing and think a cable, fuse will improve there budget Hifi .
I spent £4000 on my amplifier do i think its better then budget yes i do its made better it sounds better and i have had my amplifier now for 2 years and not even thinking of changing it .
I have a record player that 30 years old and still going strong today so there are some quality hifi out there that was made to last that was made a long time ago .
I am not saying all budget is rubbish but do believe you get what you pay for
 

DougK

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2013
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You will always get the people in life who have and the have not's that is life people spend there money on different things but people will always spend more money on something they enjoy the most take holidays , golf ,drinking , drugs , buying cars as everyone has something .
Do i think budget is the same as high-end no but both do the same job but one sounds tones better as long as you buy right why do you think people who buy budget are never happy and keep changing and think a cable, fuse will improve there budget Hifi .
I spent £4000 on my amplifier do i think its better then budget yes i do its made better it sounds better and i have had my amplifier now for 2 years and not even thinking of changing it .
I have a record player that 30 years old and still going strong today so there are some quality hifi out there that was made to last that was made a long time ago .
I am not saying all budget is rubbish but do believe you get what you pay for
Agreed BS.

I don't do the car thing anymore, my current car is 16 years old and still going strong, (touch wood). Haven't been on holiday since 2008, do I miss it, no. I now spend my cash on the things that are important to me in my life: Music, (Hi-Fi), and golf; I like motorbikes as well but the two in the garage are 16 and 13 years old and I don't ride as often as I used to but still enjoy it.

With my recent Amp/CDP/speaker purchase there was a very significant difference/upgrade over the previous system I had, I would hazard a guess that I'm currently at signature level now and have no compunction to foray any further along the upgrade path to a reference level system as I think I have finally found my end-game kit which should see me through the rest of my days. I don't do cables or fuses, that is a game for mugs.
 
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Blacksabbath25

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Sep 20, 2015
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Agreed BS.

I don't do the car thing anymore, my current car is 16 years old and still going strong, (touch wood). Haven't been on holiday since 2008, do I miss it, no. I now spend my cash on the things that are important to me in my life: Music, (Hi-Fi), and golf; I like motorbikes as well but the two in the garage are 16 and 13 years old and I don't ride as often as I used to but still enjoy it.

With my recent Amp/CDP/speaker purchase there was a very significant difference/upgrade over the previous system I had, I would hazard a guess that I'm currently at signature level now and have no compunction to foray any further along the upgrade path to a reference level system as I think I have finally found my end-game kit which should see me through the rest of my days. I don't do cables or fuses, that is a game for mugs.
And this is what i found out when i brought my Yamaha A-S3000 i had reached my end game and happy but it has taken years and a lots of box swapping over the years to get here .
I think the mistake i made was buying wrong but that is the learning part of this hobby which costs for making them mistakes but i wouldn't change it i have had buzz doing it .
 
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