Are AV Receivers good for Music ?

[SiR]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6bDeAKcfJo




Friends, hope the above one will clear the doubt about using an AV Receiver for Music.

Further, with my personal experience during audition, two days back, listened to same tracks with both IA and AV Receiver, found music from AV receiver was enjoyable.

Of course with few tweaks in AV, was able to hear considerable differences.

Music was room filling (NOT Sound)

Before, I was confused whether to go for IA or AV for music, though yet not decided on it.

If anyone have experienced the same, pls give your inputs.

Regards

 

[gellert]

I agree with you. I have used AV recievers for music listening the last 10 years. And I listen to music alomost the whole day.

 

[SiR]

I agree with you. I have used AV recievers for music listening the last 10 years. And I listen to music alomost the whole day.

Which AV Receiver do you use now ? Speakers - BS or FS ?

 

[gellert]

I use Yamaha RX V6A AV reciever with Klipsch RP 280 F speakers.

 

[Bsmooth]

I'm sure some purists will say separates are better, and in some respects they are probably right. But you can also build a lot of this and more into an AV receiver as well. Mine is older, a Yamaha RX-V757 but its a classic
It does 2 channel when I want just music, but it also does one of my other favorites, Movies very well. So its nice to have options. Would also like to try a tube amp sometime, always wanted to. Now I undrestand there is a hybrid Tube/ solid state not sure If they make an AV model of it though.

 

[shadders]

Hi,
There is no difference between AV amplifiers and stereo amplifiers. AV amplifier manufacturers use economy of scale to reduce the price of the multichannel amplifier.

If a stereo amplifier manufacturer built an AV amplifier, then the cost will be much greater than the current AV amplifier manufacturers.

The design of a stereo class A/B amplifier will be similar to the AV class A/B amplifier etc. There is no special stereo amplifier circuit design that is not used in an AV amplifier.

There is just the snobbery that stereo amplifiers are superior, since they are stereo. There will be proponents that state that the power supply of a stereo amplifier will be better than an AV amplifier, which can be the case, but not guaranteed.

The final arbiter is your ears, but the problem is expectation bias. If people are told that a stereo amplifier is better than an AV amplifier, then when you listen to both, you will still listen for the betterness of the stereo amplifier, when there is none.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[barcpc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6bDeAKcfJo




Friends, hope the above one will clear the doubt about using an AV Receiver for Music.

Further, with my personal experience during audition, two days back, listened to same tracks with both IA and AV Receiver, found music from AV receiver was enjoyable.

Of course with few tweaks in AV, was able to hear considerable differences.

Music was room filling (NOT Sound)

Before, I was confused whether to go for IA or AV for music, though yet not decided on it.

If anyone have experienced the same, pls give your inputs.

Regards

Great question, I have the same problem. I'm trying to build bit by bit my hi-fi setup and starting with a AVR gave me a lot of choices.
I was more into the Denon X series, Yamaha was also on my list but in Argentina seems easier to buy Denon.

 

[plastic penguin]

The bro-in-law has a budget Sony AV receiver. In isolation it sounds fine (only heard it in isolation). I guess if films aren't your main thing, perhaps it's better to use a good 2 channel amp - as I do

 

[Al ears]

Great question, I have the same problem. I'm trying to build bit by bit my hi-fi setup and starting with a AVR gave me a lot of choices.
I was more into the Denon X series, Yamaha was also on my list but in Argentina seems easier to buy Denon.

If it's only for your hifi why are you wasting money on superfluous channels / sockets etc, unless they are cheap second-hand kit it doesn't make financial sense.
Why does AVR give you 'a lot of choices ' ? Can you explain?
Of course if you already own one it can be used in a 2 channel role but I would not consider going out to buy one specifically to do this.

 

[SiR]

I'm sure some purists will say separates are better, and in some respects they are probably right. But you can also build a lot of this and more into an AV receiver as well. Mine is older, a Yamaha RX-V757 but its a classic
It does 2 channel when I want just music, but it also does one of my other favorites, Movies very well. So its nice to have options. Would also like to try a tube amp sometime, always wanted to. Now I undrestand there is a hybrid Tube/ solid state not sure If they make an AV model of it though.

During the audition, Imaging and Stereo separation was really good with that AVR setup

A - Arcam - A 19
AV - Denon X1600
Speakers - Wharfedale D320,
Subwoofer - Dual Subwoofer [Sealed]

It was done at the dealer place but without major room acoustic treatment

Every instrument was spot on and clear vocals

The Bass from the Sub was not deep, was neutral, which enhanced the music listening

Of course, AVR was calibrated

With the Arcam IA, it was not that satisfactory

I'm not an Audiophile, but my ears felt the difference

This is my first audition, where I got the chance of having both IA and AVR setup, playing the same track with the same set of speakers ( Duende - Black Light Syndrome, Hotel California ]

 

[SiR]

If it's only for your hifi why are you wasting money on superfluous channels / sockets etc, unless they are cheap second-hand kit it doesn't make financial sense.
Why does AVR give you 'a lot of choices ' ? Can you explain?
Of course if you already own one it can be used in a 2 channel role but I would not consider going out to buy one specifically to do this.

This is running in my mind for long and yet to get a solid answer !!


Audition was done in a Dealer place, with good seating position, (MLP ) when both were playing.

IA - Arcam - A 19
AV - Denon X1600
Speakers - Wharfedale D320,
Subwoofer - Dual Subwoofer [Sealed]

It was done at the dealer place but without major room acoustic treatment.

Tracks - Black Light Syndrome, Hotel California

Actually, the Dealer was stating that AVR too can be good for music equally to an IA [Low budget IA] with proper calibration, right speakers

His statement was that, only high end IA can make a big difference, where a good AVR [ Denon x3700 onwards, Marantz SR5015 ] can give a budget IA, run for their money. Even he stopped prescribing budget IA for music listening, when an good AVR can do the same for music plus satisfy HT needs too

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I'm sure AV gear can sound good with music, but one example side by side is meaningless in trying to prove any larger point.

There may be economies of scale, but they aren't going to be that significant* - it's not like Arcam (etc) buys its components in batches of five or six, is it? And this completely discounts the fact that many companies make both, or have sister companies in the other camp with which to share these economies. If the economies argument held weight, such companies would automatically produce better stereo gear, and I see no-one suggesting that this is the case.

*And these economies would need to be unfeasibly massive anyway - AV amps typically feature seven (or many more) channels of amplification instead of just two, and have AV sound & picture processing capabilities built in, a tuner, room correction etc. These are not giveaways.

If you are enjoying music through an AV amp, that's all that matters - but there is a strict chain of logical reasoning why a well-chosen stereo amp should either be better or cheaper.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

a good AVR [ Denon x3700 onwards, Marantz SR5015 ] can give a budget IA, run for their money

As a good 'budget' integrated would be considerably cheaper, this seems to tally with my previous post.

 

[abacus]

The big elephant in the room is the room, and as most AV receivers have built in room correction capabilities (Which can reduce the problems) they already have an advantage over a normal stereo amp which normally has none.

The more channels you have in an AV receiver the bigger the power supply and output stages need to be, however most AV receivers use a similar size box so something has to give way for more channels to be added, this is usually the power supply and output stages, thus they cannot drive more difficult speakers (Better quality speakers on the whole tend to be more difficult to drive due to more sophisticated drivers and crossovers) adequately and the sound suffers. (There is a reason that Arcam, Lyndorf, Anthem etc. have multiple processing channels but a limited number of power amp channels, (The large Anthems reduce this problem due to having lower output power amps for the surround channels compared to the main channels) and is the reason they are brilliant with music)

In the end it all comes down to how the system sounds with all the components connected, and is the reason that you must always try the combination before purchase. (Buying equipment from a review or because it has 5 stars is a recipe for disaster)

Bill

 

[shadders]

It was done at the dealer place but without major room acoustic treatment

Every instrument was spot on and clear vocals

The Bass from the Sub was not deep, was neutral, which enhanced the music listening

Of course, AVR was calibrated

With the Arcam IA, it was not that satisfactory

I'm not an Audiophile, but my ears felt the difference

Hi,
What you have written is all that you need to know. You preferred the sound of the AV amplifier.

The snobbery in hifi will always present itself as one brand is better than another, or the more money you pay the better, or that AV equipment is somehow, just not quite as good as stereo amplifiers. They all use similar circuits.

I have been examining class D amplifier design - currently building my own active system. One aspect i did not realise is that the Hypex units are slightly modified Philips design from the mid 2000's.

There are class D Hifi amplifiers that use a standard IC chip for output stage driving/control for the PWM signal, that receive favourable subjective reviews from the Hifi press.

Essentially, an AV class D based amplifier is no different to a stereo based class D amplifier.

The specifications for an AV amplifier are provided when used as a stereo amplifier (states 2 channel driven) and also provide all channels driven specification/performance. The performance for stereo operation is commensurate with a stereo amplifier.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[SiR]

Great question, I have the same problem. I'm trying to build bit by bit my hi-fi setup and starting with a AVR gave me a lot of choices.
I was more into the Denon X series, Yamaha was also on my list but in Argentina seems easier to buy Denon.

Yes, Denon X series, is the best one you can rely on

 

[Al ears]

This is running in my mind for long and yet to get a solid answer !!


Audition was done in a Dealer place, with good seating position, (MLP ) when both were playing.

IA - Arcam - A 19
AV - Denon X1600
Speakers - Wharfedale D320,
Subwoofer - Dual Subwoofer [Sealed]

It was done at the dealer place but without major room acoustic treatment.

Tracks - Black Light Syndrome, Hotel California

Actually, the Dealer was stating that AVR too can be good for music equally to an IA [Low budget IA] with proper calibration, right speakers

His statement was that, only high end IA can make a big difference, where a good AVR [ Denon x3700 onwards, Marantz SR5015 ] can give a budget IA, run for their money. Even he stopped prescribing budget IA for music listening, when an good AVR can do the same for music plus satisfy HT needs too

you didn't mention also using it for HT.
my response was for music only.....

 

[SiR]

you didn't mention also using it for HT.
my response was for music only.....

Thanks for your response !!

My search started for a good music listening and looking for an IA but came across a dealer who was stating that GOOD AVR will do the same, where even HT is possible

So, took the audition with him, came with this thread to get inputs from FM's

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Boils down to are you prepared to pay more for an AV amp for comparable stereo performance, based upon both logic and what your dealer is saying/offering. No-one else can make that call for you.

 

[Samd]

Boils down to are you prepared to pay more for an AV amp for comparable stereo performance, based upon both logic and what your dealer is saying/offering. No-one else can make that call for you.

Agreed.
I did but mainly cos I could only afford one system but have no regrets about binning my prvious systems and gives the occasional added benefit of DTS audio if only they were not so flipping expensive!!

 

[Bsmooth]

Depends on what you want out of your system as well.If you want both a multi channel and stereo as well, then invest wisely and put your money into what you need. From the research I've done Denon and Marantz are pretty much what you want and need from an AV, at least for reasonable prices. Though I have read they do tend to run a bit warm, but nothing that can't be handled from good ventilation.
Another thing that doesn't get talked too much about is attached to each side of your head. Those ears that you rely very heavily upon, as well as what you feel changes over the years.Its a subtle change but it usually doesn't get better, so your sound needs will change as well.
Point being, you can buy the best, but will you actually hear the difference ?

 

[SiR]

Depends on what you want out of your system as well.If you want both a multi channel and stereo as well, then invest wisely and put your money into what you need. From the research I've done Denon and Marantz are pretty much what you want and need from an AV, at least for reasonable prices. Though I have read they do tend to run a bit warm, but nothing that can't be handled from good ventilation.
Another thing that doesn't get talked too much about is attached to each side of your head. Those ears that you rely very heavily upon, as well as what you feel changes over the years.Its a subtle change but it usually doesn't get better, so your sound needs will change as well.
Point being, you can buy the best, but will you actually hear the difference ?

From the research I've done Denon and Marantz are pretty much what you want and need from an AV, at least for reasonable prices.

This one recommendation, about Denon [from x3700 ] and Marantz [from SR5105] I see from few FM's for both stereo and HT usage

Believe, should consider this recommendation for my need before I settle for an dedicated budget IA for stereo, until I can start investing in dedicated components for hifi and HT

 

[jjbomber]

“Question: Are they better suited for music or for movies?

Answer: Sound reproduction equipment doesn’t know the difference between a music signal and a movie signal, or for that matter the musical score within a movie soundtrack. Accurate for one means accurate for the other.”

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Audyssey

 

[SiR]

Depends on what you want out of your system as well.If you want both a multi channel and stereo as well, then invest wisely and put your money into what you need. From the research I've done Denon and Marantz are pretty much what you want and need from an AV, at least for reasonable prices. Though I have read they do tend to run a bit warm, but nothing that can't be handled from good ventilation.
Another thing that doesn't get talked too much about is attached to each side of your head. Those ears that you rely very heavily upon, as well as what you feel changes over the years.Its a subtle change but it usually doesn't get better, so your sound needs will change as well.
Point being, you can buy the best, but will you actually hear the difference ?

Can you suggest which speaker goes fine with Denon and Marantz ?

See many times, in Forums and reviews Wharfedale is fine with Denon and Marantz

Also, does a floorstanding speaker is too much for 12" X 15" living room ?