Are all music streamers the same?

[Gazzip]

As I use a separate DAC I am guessing that it doesn't matter which streamer I use in terms of sound quality? I currently have a Squeezebox Touch and have been looking at the Cyrus Stream X as a replacement, but I really can't see that I would get any improvement by doing this. So why is it so much more expensive than the SB Touch?

 

[CnoEvil]

Think of a Streamer as a CDP with no moving parts, so in the same way as CDPs sound different and generally improve with price, it's the same with Streamers.

Please don't take my word for it, and have a listen to what's out there from Linn, Cyrus, Naim and Yamaha.

 

[John Duncan]

Though bearing in mind you're using a fairly high-end DAC, I'm of the view that there would be little to no difference if both were plugged into it.

 

[Gazzip]

Though bearing in mind you're using a fairly high-end DAC, I'm of the view that there would be little to no difference if both were plugged into it.

My thought exactly. As far as I can gather all a streamer actually does is to move a digital file from A to B. Considering there can be no degradation of such a file in transit the extra £1200 for the Cyrus streamer seems to me to be utter madness.

 

[professorhat]

 

[CnoEvil]

Though bearing in mind you're using a fairly high-end DAC, I'm of the view that there would be little to no difference if both were plugged into it.

My thought exactly. As far as I can gather all a streamer actually does is to move a digital file from A to B. Considering there can be no degradation of such a file in transit the extra £1200 for the Cyrus streamer seems to me to be utter madness.

Sorry, misread the question (I thought you were replacing Dac as well). If you are looking for a transport only, the differences are much less, but imo still there.....saying that, I wouldn't worry too much about it and keep what you have.

 

[matthewpiano]

Not only that, but the Touch's user interface is better than pretty much any of the 'audiophile' streamers, apart from Soolos of course.

 

[idc]

That is what I would prioritise, ease of use and a nice interface.

 

[WinterRacer]

Keep the Squeezbox Touch. I used to have a Cyrus DAC-X and could hear no difference between my Cyrus XT-SE and the Squeezebox, I can't see why another streamer should prove any different. The only measurement worth worrying about is jitter and as far as I can tell all streamers are good enough for this to be inconsequential.

 

[Cypher]

After reading the review of the Pioneer N-50 in the latest issue I'm not sure if al streamers sound the same.

I heard the Squeezebox Touch several times and I would use it with a separate DAC beause it sounded pretty bad to me.

 

[Crocodile]

I heard the Squeezebox Touch several times and I would use it with a separate DAC beause it sounded pretty bad to me.

In what way, as that point of view seems to be very much in the minority?

 

[amcluesent]

>So why is it so much more expensive than the SB Touch?<

Because of the dealer markups and expectations that Cyrus products are sold at that price point, not priced like a computer peripheral.

A streamer with genuine value-add is the Linn range with their own DSP to up-sample the stream

 

[Cypher]

I heard the Squeezebox Touch several times and I would use it with a separate DAC beause it sounded pretty bad to me.

In what way, as that point of view seems to be very much in the minority?

I compared it with a Denon NDP-720 network player and the Denon sounded way better. The sqeezebox is not very expensive and it sounds like it.

 

[SteveR750]

Think of a Streamer as a CDP with no moving parts, so in the same way as CDPs sound different and generally improve with price, it's the same with Streamers. Please don't take my word for it, and have a listen to what's out there from Linn, Cyrus, Naim and Yamaha.

And surely therein lies the detail! There is inevitable data loss when reading from a spinning disc, not so when streaming a bit perfect file. I would have thought that any streamer that can present an unmodified data stream to the DAC (bit perfect) *should sound the same. This was the conclusion we reached in my swap the PC for a dedicated streamer thread a while back.

*notwithstanding subjective / psychological human imperfections etc of course!

 

[CnoEvil]

Think of a Streamer as a CDP with no moving parts, so in the same way as CDPs sound different and generally improve with price, it's the same with Streamers. Please don't take my word for it, and have a listen to what's out there from Linn, Cyrus, Naim and Yamaha.

And surely therein lies the detail! There is inevitable data loss when reading from a spinning disc, not so when streaming a bit perfect file. I would have thought that any streamer that can present an unmodified data stream to the DAC (bit perfect) *should sound the same. This was the conclusion we reached in my swap the PC for a dedicated streamer thread a while back.

*notwithstanding subjective / psychological human imperfections etc of course!

There are two distinct questions in there:

1. Why do streamers sound (in theory) better than CDPs....and this is as you've stated ie. The problems associated with a spinning disc (eg. error correction in real time and mechanical noise) vs streaming a perfect rip.

2. Why do streamers sound different/better to each other...receiving a perfect stream is the easy bit; what you do with it is the acid test. This is where factors like power supply, effective isolation/screening, the handling of jitter, the quality of the Dac and the effectiveness of the up-sampling, have a big effect.

The reason I keep recommending Linn, is they are the best that I've personally heard, and as you go up the food chain from Sneaky -> Majik -> Akurate -> Klimax, the differences are there to be heard; but the law of diminishing returns kicks in, and it comes down to what one is personally prepared to pay for the improvement.

When Linn brought out the Dynamik (switch mode) power supply, it made a very noticeable difference (imo bringing the Majik DS up to the level of the Akurate DS that hadn't got one fitted).

 

[SteveR750]

Cno I guess it's how you define a streamer. For me it;s the device that reads the file, and presents the data to the DAC. I *think* that that is the easy bit of the process, as you say it's what happens downstream that is critical, which for my ears would appear to be at the squarere end of the USB cable. I don't disbelieve, as I have never heard any of Linn's streamers, but am struggling to understand how they can improve the accuracy of the data, other than avoiding contaminating PSU noise which is common with PCs

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno I guess it's how you define a streamer. For me it;s the device that reads the file, and presents the data to the DAC. I *think* that that is the easy bit of the process, as you say it's what happens downstream that is critical, which for my ears would appear to be at the squarere end of the USB cable. I don't disbelieve, as I have never heard any of Linn's streamers, but am struggling to understand how they can improve the accuracy of the data, other than avoiding contaminating PSU noise which is common with PCs

Steve, this might shed a little light (post No.2):
http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=15456

I know what you mean about what constitutes a Streamer.....for me, if it doesn't have a Dac, then it's a Transport. IMO Having the Dac incorporated has sonic advantages.....it's not until you hear a DS, that you will know if I'm talking complete b****x!

 

[SteveR750]

Cno I guess it's how you define a streamer. For me it;s the device that reads the file, and presents the data to the DAC. I *think* that that is the easy bit of the process, as you say it's what happens downstream that is critical, which for my ears would appear to be at the squarere end of the USB cable. I don't disbelieve, as I have never heard any of Linn's streamers, but am struggling to understand how they can improve the accuracy of the data, other than avoiding contaminating PSU noise which is common with PCs

Steve, this might shed a little light (post No.2): http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=15456 I know what you mean about what constitutes a Streamer.....for me, if it doesn't have a Dac, then it's a Transport. IMO Having the Dac incorporated has sonic advantages.....it's not until you hear a DS, that you will know if I'm talking complete b****x!

Thanks Cno, I had guessed we had got wires slightly crossed. I guess I would be comparing my PC+Dacmagic to a Linn DS (or any other proprietry DS?), in which case the argument of one box conversion makes a lot of sense (minimal cable jitter, same reference clocks etc). I wonder how a Majik compares to a PC + say a QBD76 which to my ears was frankly stunning.

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks Cno, I had guessed we had got wires slightly crossed. I guess I would be comparing my PC+Dacmagic to a Linn DS (or any other proprietry DS?), in which case the argument of one box conversion makes a lot of sense (minimal cable jitter, same reference clocks etc). I wonder how a Majik compares to a PC + say a QBD76 which to my ears was frankly stunning.

I have done this, but through Linn Klimax amp/speakers. It comes down to taste.....I found the Majik more musical/less forward and analytical, but a little less detailed. It took the Akurate DS to beat it for both musicality and detail. This of course is only my humble opinion.