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April price rise!!!!!

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Anonymous

Guest
JoelSim:

Meridian Man, I really don't think you understand what's happening to the economy at all. Naim are having to increase prices to avoid losing money, and I suspect that by doing so, sales will be hit further and they will end up losing money anyway.

Joel, naim put their prices up every year, not just this year when the world is in melt down.

They have being putting their prices up in the boom years also.

Also when the £ was low against the euro it was an advantage for naim to sell to people in Europe. Now the pound is strong again prices in Europe are not that nice anymore.

Have you checked out the price of copper now? its at a all time low, that's just one material.

And I'm not going to buy that luxery cdx2 anytime soon, i like everybody else who has a job, is worried about it.

Think i found why i got a angry response about this topic, it's to do with naim, meridian, linn, rega, etc, all quality British brands. I think i would get a very different response if i were to substitute naim for krell, bryston or classe in the topic or is it that people like/don't mind paying for unnecessary rise's? if so what was all the fuss for when the poll tax came about.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
meridian man:JoelSim:

Meridian Man, I really don't think you understand what's happening to the economy at all. Naim are having to increase prices to avoid losing money, and I suspect that by doing so, sales will be hit further and they will end up losing money anyway.

Joel, naim put their prices up every year, not just this year when the world is in melt down.

They have being putting their prices up in the boom years also.

Also when the £ was low against the euro it was an advantage for naim to sell to people in Europe. Now the pound is strong again prices in Europe are not that nice anymore.

Have you checked out the price of copper now? its at a all time low, that's just one material.

And I'm not going to buy that luxery cdx2 anytime soon, i like everybody else who has a job, is worried about it.

Think i found why i got a angry response about this topic, it's to do with naim, meridian, linn, rega, etc, all quality British brands. I think i would get a very different response if i were to substitute naim for krell, bryston or classe in the topic or is it that people like/don't mind paying for unnecessary rise's? if so what was all the fuss for when the poll tax came about.


I, personally, have not responded because of the nationality of the brand.... my response is entirely motivated by the fact that your initial question is so incongruous with the situation as we know it.

Perhaps you should of been angry with Naim's price rises when things were good..... but now I believe that Naim's price rises are motivated by something more and that the chances of Naim making money this year is low..... very low. So accuse them of raising prices unnecessarily is way off the mark.

The price of copper maybe at an all time low.... but copper is but one constituent part.... and the state of the currency means that low prices are wiped out when you factor in that the pound has fallen in value by as much as 25-40% across international markets....

.......honestly read Cambridge Audio CEO's reply in the link that I posted.....

Bottom line, the anger that you have encountered is more due to the ignorance that you have shown concerning the necessity and seriousness of the situation. I do not think that the Poll Tax example works.... it was a social tax which meant that people who had never paid a bill before, who had never had an income (house wife's, the elderly) were going to be presented with huge tax bills.... it was essentially unfair in the way that it was going to be blanket applied to people who potentially could not afford it BUT they would HAVE to..... so now lets look at your language and your situation......

You are not saying this product, which I HAVE to buy is being unfairly priced, therefore I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. You are saying this price rise means that I have to buy ex-demo or secondhand (poor you!). That is mildly offensive.... because people are losing their jobs, homes, having to declare themselves bankrupt..... as are companies.... it is very much a case of you declaring 'Let them eat cake!'..... or.... 'I can only afford cake!' You present a point of view that I find incredibly difficult to empathise with..... and the bottom line is if you do not like it..... then do not buy Naim.... no-one is forcing you to do so.
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
0
0
So we're not only Naim sheep, doing what someone from the company tells us, but we are also wolves in sheeps clothing and xenophobic, too.

Boy, you know how to win friends, meridian man...
 
T

the record spot

Guest
meridian man:

Joel, naim put their prices up every year, not just this year when the world is in melt down.

They have being putting their prices up in the boom years also.

I don't understand the problem here; if you accept - broadly speaking - that manufacturers aren't in business just to churn out product, but are in business then one other raison d'etre is to make some money. They can use this to generate an income, pay staff, come up with new designs, pay the bills, etc. This isn't a flat scenario; prices and costs fluctuate not just for consumers but for manufacturers too for a host of reasons.

meridian man:

Also when the £ was low against the euro it was an advantage for naim to sell to people in Europe. Now the pound is strong again prices in Europe are not that nice anymore.

Have you checked out the price of copper now? its at a all time low, that's just one material.

The pound is anything but strong. Yo might read that other currencies are likely to stumble in the next twelve months - the dollar prince amongst those - but the pound has no more become strong again than I'll be crowned first minister of Scotland tomorrow. You might say it has rallied a little, but given you could almost get two dollars to one pound not so long ago, and it's sitting at under $1.50 of late, that's a big drop.

meridian man:

And I'm not going to buy that luxery cdx2 anytime soon, i like everybody else who has a job, is worried about it.

Yep, well, it's not just Naim's 5% price increase that's caused this uncertainty in job security presumably?

meridian man:

Think i found why i got a angry response about this topic, it's to do with naim, meridian, linn, rega, etc, all quality British brands. I think i would get a very different response if i were to substitute naim for krell, bryston or classe in the topic or is it that people like/don't mind paying for unnecessary rise's? if so what was all the fuss for when the poll tax came about.


I have to say I think this is matching apples with oranges. Krell, Bryston, et al., are not your typical high street brand and are very much prestige marques. People looking to buy Krell might not be too interested in (e.g.) Rega, rightly or wrongly. One of the most notable price rises that still registers with me (for no good reason) was the Usher S520 speaker. Initially £265, it jumped to £320 a few short months after its release and a handful of good reviews. Not sure on the rationale behind that one, but this is going back a good 12-15 months I think, so ahead of the worst of the credit crunch.

And you're probably confusing your preferred choice of topic if you think the economic rationale in pricing audio equipment comes anywhere near the social injustice (and its' application which was the real cause of discontent) of the now defunct Community Charge.
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
0
0
meridian man:Now the pound is strong again

The pound is stronger? Here are some year-on-year comparisons, based on yesterday's rates.

Euro to £ Feb 27, 2008 1.31
Euro to £ Feb 27, 2009 1.11
Pound now worth 16% less against Euro

US $ to £ Feb 27, 2008 1.99
US $ to £ Feb 27, 2009 1.41
Pound now worth 30% less against US $

Japanese Yen to £ Feb 27, 2008 211.94
Japanese Yen to £ Feb 27, 2009 137.98
Pound now worth 35% less against Japanese Yen

Chinese RMB to £ Feb 27, 2008 14.225 Yuan
Chinese RMB to £ Feb 27, 2009 9.683 Yuan
Pound now worth 32% less against Chinese RMB

But of course many companies importing from, say, Japan, trade in either US $ or Euros against the Yen, rather than straight £/Yen, so we also have to factor in...

Japanese Yen to US $ Feb 27, 2008 106.38
Japanese Yen to US $ Feb 27, 2009 97.46
US $ now worth 9% less against Japanese Yen

Japanese Yen to Euro Feb 27, 2008 160.97
Japanese Yen to Euro Feb 27, 2009 123.23
Euro now worth 24% less against Japanese Yen
 

laserman16

New member
Nov 23, 2007
99
0
0
JoelSim:
Now that the pound is strong again???

Laughs..........

ÿ

ÿ

ÿ

Think I missed that with the £. When and how long for ???. People have mentioned the price of copper being at an all time low, I think that it is only 6 months ago it was at an all time high and dont forget that that is raw product price. By the time parts and components get manufactured and sold on it can take 6 months or so for that high price to filter through. Copper being just one material amongst a lot of others that all reached record highs last year.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's amazing how a sector such as public service broadcasting can destroy a company.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
To Meridianman......

...... look it is entirely your right to feel hard done by, by Naim... but when you are basing those feelings upon the economic principles that you are... and the support that you were (initially) looking for from this forum is not forthcoming.... and it is not just that the majority think that you have a few points that are questionable.... it is that many, many people are saying the opposite of what you are, some of whom , Mr. Everard, has many, many years in the industry.... looking at the products, assessing the products, going to the shows, talking to the people who produce these products, writing about the products, specifically, and the industry in general....... then I would say that the likelihood of everyone else being wrong.... and you being the only correct one, is very, very slim.

Therefore, I tentatively suggest, that it would be worth stopping, looking at the situation again, with no pre-conceptions and bias and attempting to see what it is that the majority are seeing and you are not..... and if you do not feel like doing that, then you are either someone with amazing insight that we lack OR a touch (and this is not meant as a personal insult, rather a bald statement) egotisitcal and arrogant in your assessment of what Naim are doing to you.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Andrew Everard:
Octopo:It's amazing how a sector such as public service broadcasting can destroy a company.

Huh?


I took it as a reference to Peston The Destroyer and his role in making it all so much worse (which I do not agree with).
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
0
0
Ah, right - the Royal Television Society's Specialist Journalist of the Year and Television Journalist of the Year...

Apparently, he "owned the story of the Credit Crunch and its impact on the whole economy" and has "personally revived appointment-to-view."
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Andrew Everard:
Ah, right - the Royal Television Society's Specialist Journalist of the Year and Television Journalist of the Year...

Apparently, he "owned the story of the Credit Crunch and its impact on the whole economy" and has "personally revived appointment-to-view."

If he owns the story.... why does he not give it a happy ending?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Andrew Everard:
Octopo:It's amazing how a sector such as public service broadcasting can destroy a company.

Huh?ÿ


The slip of a tongue can destroy a thousand. A graph, many thousands more.ÿ
 
T

the record spot

Guest
I think it's probably fairer to say that the companies in question have been more adept at near self-destruction than the ubiquitous Mr. Peston's words were! If anything, the icing on an already pretty rancid cake.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the record spot:I think it's probably fairer to say that the companies in question have been more adept at near self-destruction than the ubiquitous Mr. Peston's words were! If anything, the icing on an already pretty rancid cake.

Great statement. I wasn't saying what the BBC are doing is derogatory to the banking system. It was ruined before they started. Fear on the other hand is what the recession is all about. Carrot and donkey.
 

Ravey Gravey Davy

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
221
2
18,795
Octopo:

the record spot:I think it's probably fairer to say that the companies in question have been more adept at near self-destruction than the ubiquitous Mr. Peston's words were! If anything, the icing on an already pretty rancid cake.

Great statement. I wasn't saying what the BBC are doing is derogatory to the banking system. It was ruined before they started. Fear on the other hand is what the recession is all about. Carrot and donkey.

Not quite so simple
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Andrew Everard:

meridian man:Now the pound is strong again

The pound is stronger? Here are some year-on-year comparisons, based on yesterday's rates.

Euro to £ Feb 27, 2008 1.31
Euro to £ Feb 27, 2009 1.11
Pound now worth 16% less against Euro

US $ to £ Feb 27, 2008 1.99
US $ to £ Feb 27, 2009 1.41
Pound now worth 30% less against US $

Japanese Yen to £ Feb 27, 2008 211.94
Japanese Yen to £ Feb 27, 2009 137.98
Pound now worth 35% less against Japanese Yen

Chinese RMB to £ Feb 27, 2008 14.225 Yuan
Chinese RMB to £ Feb 27, 2009 9.683 Yuan
Pound now worth 32% less against Chinese RMB

But of course many companies importing from, say, Japan, trade in either US $ or Euros against the Yen, rather than straight £/Yen, so we also have to factor in...

Japanese Yen to US $ Feb 27, 2008 106.38
Japanese Yen to US $ Feb 27, 2009 97.46
US $ now worth 9% less against Japanese Yen

Japanese Yen to Euro Feb 27, 2008 160.97
Japanese Yen to Euro Feb 27, 2009 123.23
Euro now worth 24% less against Japanese Yen

WOW
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i'm sorry for future naim owners as it now seems to me they can take/accept a 10/15/20/50% increase next year as they have very foolishly showing their hand.

If i were to accept a naim 202/200 amp and cdx2 for free i would bitterly defend my view's reviews and statements.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I have been following this thread with interest. I live in Canada; but last time I checked the UK was a free society. And in a free society we have free enterprise.

I own my own business which employees over thirty people. I worked very hard building my business and took (and am still taking) a great many risks. I believe that I sell a very good service; and provide that service for profit. A company is in business to make a profit; and as such has the right to charge whatever it wants for it's product/service. The consumer has the option of purchasing that companies product/service or not purchasing it. It's a free society.

Discussing one product's value when compared to similar products value is a great thing to be doing; it makes the market more competitive. However accusing a company of unfair practice because it chooses to raise it's prices is simply unfair. Especially when the person doing the accusing is simply unaware of the current market and it's challenges.

As a few members have said in this thread if you don't like the price don't buy the product. That is what a competitive free enterprise society is all about.
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
0
0
meridian man:i'm sorry for future naim owners as it now seems to me they can take/accept a 10/15/20/50% increase next year as they have very foolishly showing their hand.

If i were to accept a naim 202/200 amp and cdx2 for free i would bitterly defend my view's reviews and statements.


Not even sure what that last statement means, and are you really suggesting that anyone has foolishly showed their hand, so Naim will now seize on our display of stupidity and decide to double or even quadruple its price increase?

What a deeply cynical and illogical person you are...
 
T

the record spot

Guest
meridian man:
i'm sorry for future naim owners as it now seems to me they can take/accept a 10/15/20/50% increase next year as they have very foolishly showing their hand.

If i were to accept a naim 202/200 amp and cdx2 for free i would bitterly defend my view's reviews and statements.


No, I think what you don't get is that it's down to personal choice. A company raises its price, that;s fine - you can step up and pay at the till, or you can move on.

It seems to me the pill that's sticking in your throat is the fact the company chose to raise its price in the first instance. That's business alas and it happens; sorry you appear to be having some difficulty dealing with that.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
meridian man:
i'm sorry for future naim owners as it now seems to me they can take/accept a 10/15/20/50% increase next year as they have very foolishly showing their hand.

If i were to accept a naim 202/200 amp and cdx2 for free i would bitterly defend my view's reviews and statements.


Well first off..... I am not a 'future Naim owner'. I do not like Naim..... it is not the famous problem of not liking the Naim sound.... I have never heard them. I cannot get past the horrible styling. The early stuff is alright but all that black stuff with the half green moon on that looks like it was ripped from a set of the late nineties Predator movie is truly horrible. Also..... I do not like the price and the snobbishness that Naim garner..... because this is the joke.... if you were complaining about Cambridge Audio I would have so much more empathy with you. That company is dedicated to manufacturing as higher end audio as it can for the budget user......

Naim have always been a premium quality company that is very idiosyncratic and characterful.... and you pay for that. If you are so worried about money what the hell were you buying Naim for anyway? This is more to do with your economic circumstances - you do not feel as though you can afford the latest upgrade - rather than Naim's. Whilst you could afford it then there was no problem.

You have pointed out that "5% of naims cdx2 £3150 = £157.50", and what you meant by this was £157.50 is a lot of money (which it is).... but the argument works in the opposite direction too..... £157.50 is not that much money when compared to £3000 and if you are willing to drop £3000 on a CD player then you are operating at a certain level of expectation and income that is far, far beyond what I can afford (which is fine - this is not a jealousy rant) and an extra £150 is not that much (5% I believe).

My point is that if you have the £3000 in the first place the extra £150 is neither here nor there..... if it pushes the CD player to the point of inacessability then you problably could not afford the £3000 in the first place. It is like a Jaguar owner complaining of a price rise...... do not buy Jaguar then.... there are cheaper and more affordable brands that still do the job!!!!!!!!

Whats more.... they always, according to you, raise there prices at that time of year. Worst time to buy an Ipod? Late August.... why? Because Apple always release the next generation of Ipods in September. So would I come here and complain about that? No..... they are consistent for a reason...... I just make sure that I do the Ipod buying around mid/late September.

I also think that Naim know that they cannot willy-nilly rise their prices 10/15/20/50%..... and indeed they have not. So you are being silly and there is a bit of sour grapes in that statement (and in your complain as a whole). As you said you will get this player that you want....... but it will be ex-demo or secondhand, so I do not see what you are complaining about really.........as I have said before, no empathy what so ever. Your views are your views...... and like Naim they are..... unique? It is just a pity that, unlike Naim, you are willing to give yours away so freely.
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2007
299
95
18,970
Naim design and build superior products that last and last, and they provide terrific servicing support to owners of even fairly old models (going right back to the original Nait). They are a high end company in the truest sense, not just in terms of price but in terms of their expectations of dealers, the quality (both audio and physical) of their products, and in the back-up support they provide. The sound of Naim products is not to everyone's taste, but then show me the manufacturer that can convince every hi-fi buyer and music lover and then everyone else might as well give up!

Naim are doing nothing wrong whatsoever in raising their prices by 5% and it is probably because they make smaller rises each year that their products haven't been hit by the bigger price rises that we've seen across the industry. We've seen much bigger price rises at the budget end - Project Debut III up to £220, Marantz CD6002 and PM6002 up to £320 (for example). For those buying at the budget end an additional £50 on the price of an amplifier is significantly more troublesome than an additional £157 is for the buyer of a Naim product costing nearly £3,000. Again, I don't think Marantz and Project have done anything wrong - we all know the very good reasons for their price rises and I for one would rather see the price rises than see those companies struggle for longer term survival.

Businesses do not exist to make losses on products or to merely break even. On the retail side the demise of Empire Direct has made it only too clear that you can only rely on selling volume at dangerously low margins for so long. When the volume dips you stop making money and you can't afford to pay the bills. People were incredibly quick to take Empire up on their ridiculous prices when they were trading but didn't realise that those pricing policies have actually been to their detriment: there are now lots of Empire customers out there with 'free' extended warranties that weren't backed up properly and which are now not even worth the paper they were written on.

The simple message is, if you can't afford a product or you don't think a product represents good value for money, then buy a cheaper or different product. Its no good going into a dealer and looking at (for example) a PM7003 and expecting it for little more than a PM6002. If you can't afford the 7003, buy the 6002 instead. Don't expect the dealer (or manufacturer) to make nothing just so that you can buy a product that you can't really afford.

Business is business and exists for making money. As long as that is backed up by first class product and service (which it certainly is in Naim's case) there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

(Oh, and before you start, I CAN'T afford Naim's prices and probably never will.)
 

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