apart from the loudness war

[MajorFubar]

There is a general misunderstanding about compression. Fact is it's always happened and it's an important part of the mixing and mastering processes for a multitude of reasons. Where it's gone wrong in recent years is it's been over-used and mis-used to squash the dynamics to almost a flat line so that the average level of the track can be increased to make the track louder overall. The RMS loudness of most modern pop/rock tracks these days is about -10dB or higher, which sounds excessively loud even at quiet volumes because there's no headroom left for natural peaks. In the 70s and 80s it was more like -16dB.

 

[splasher]

Motorhead's Ace of Spades has a DR of 11.

Making it more compressed than Led Zep's Physical Graffiti, but less compressed than Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds Chasing Yesterday.

yeah but Ace of Spades is not artificially compressed in the mix, it's just how it is. I haven't studied DR album by album but I'm not surprised by what you say about Noel Gallagher. I always found Oasis tracks great to begin with but tedious to listen to a whole album and back in the days of mix tapes for the car, I always had to turn the recording level down to keep the match lights in the green when I added an Oasis track.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

this loudness war is rubbish sometimes you do not have a choice if you like a band and most of the metal bands i like have a rubbish compression so no choice there unless i do not buy music anymore and whats the fun in that so why let it bother anyone unless you like classic music then i understand why you need a good recording .

No loudness isn't rubbish, see/listen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

You always have a choice to vote with your wallet.

I have started to use the DR Database to find good recordings then go shopping on discogs.com to get exactly what I need. Can be expensive and time consuming to find originals but it is more than worth it in the long run. Discogs also assists with sorting the bootlegs from pukka copies. I have bought some Russian bootlegs in the past and they are truly awful.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

 

[lindsayt]

As others mentioned, to sound as loud or louder than anything else from the competition. More attention, more popularity, more money. There is absolutely no reason for loudness compression with digital media other than that. Today cars are quieter with better sound insulation than in the 1950s. There is no need for loudness compression for headphones because they also isolate from the environment. Vinyl has lower dynamic range due to physical limitations, not because it's an improvement.

Well, I guess it could be usefull if you were driving a convertable '67 Mustang while listening to AM rock stations playing you singles.

I've been doing some measurements with my calibrated sound meter. My car's a 4 door family saloon.

38 to 43 dbs - my listening room with my laptop on and the music off

51 dbs - in my car with the engine on waiting at traffic lights

65 dbs - 30 mph in my car

70 dbs - 60 mph in my car, increasing to 76 db peaks when hitting a bump / pothole in the road

72 dbs - 70 mph on a flat dry asphalt motorway

76 dbs - 70 mph on a flat dry concrete motorway

75 dbs - 70 mph uphill section of asphalt motorway

I've not measured it yet on an uphill section of concreted motorway into a heavy wind with it raining heavily or falling hail stones at 50 to 70 mph.

78 db peaks - listening to Radio 2 at my normal listening levels whilst doing 70 mph on a flat ashpalt motorway.

The least compressed CD I have is Rickie Lee Jones Flying Cowboys. It has a DR of 17. During the 10th track of this album I measured a minimum of 48 dbs and a maximum of about 80 dbs at my listening position at home with the volume turned up as high as I would ever want with this album. That's a dynamic range of about 32 dbs.

This album has too great a dynamic range for me to listen to it whilst driving along the motorway without me either turning up the volume 20 dbs louder than I'd normally listen at (no way am I going to do that. Far too loud!) or without me losing the quieter bits in background noise, or without some form of compression.

 

[MajorFubar]

....NAD cassette decks from the 80s/90s which had a C.A.R. button (clearly a backronym if there ever was one) which compressed the dynamic range on recordings destined to be used in the car? You wouldn't need it now.

 

[JamesMellor]

Let's play guess what CAR stands for l Carp Audio Recording ?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

Then buy the CD *smile* Remastered for iTunes normally means it's mastered to sound good on iThings.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

Then buy the CD *smile* Remastered for iTunes normally means it's mastered to sound good on iThings.

that is what i do just buy CDs anyway *smile*

 

[Vladimir]

As others mentioned, to sound as loud or louder than anything else from the competition. More attention, more popularity, more money. There is absolutely no reason for loudness compression with digital media other than that. Today cars are quieter with better sound insulation than in the 1950s. There is no need for loudness compression for headphones because they also isolate from the environment. Vinyl has lower dynamic range due to physical limitations, not because it's an improvement.

Well, I guess it could be usefull if you were driving a convertable '67 Mustang while listening to AM rock stations playing you singles.

I've been doing some measurements with my calibrated sound meter. My car's a 4 door family saloon.

38 to 43 dbs - my listening room with my laptop on and the music off

51 dbs - in my car with the engine on waiting at traffic lights

65 dbs - 30 mph in my car

70 dbs - 60 mph in my car, increasing to 76 db peaks when hitting a bump / pothole in the road

72 dbs - 70 mph on a flat dry asphalt motorway

76 dbs - 70 mph on a flat dry concrete motorway

75 dbs - 70 mph uphill section of asphalt motorway

I've not measured it yet on an uphill section of concreted motorway into a heavy wind with it raining heavily or falling hail stones at 50 to 70 mph.

78 db peaks - listening to Radio 2 at my normal listening levels whilst doing 70 mph on a flat ashpalt motorway.

The least compressed CD I have is Rickie Lee Jones Flying Cowboys. It has a DR of 17. During the 10th track of this album I measured a minimum of 48 dbs and a maximum of about 80 dbs at my listening position at home with the volume turned up as high as I would ever want with this album. That's a dynamic range of about 32 dbs.

This album has too great a dynamic range for me to listen to it whilst driving along the motorway without me either turning up the volume 20 dbs louder than I'd normally listen at (no way am I going to do that. Far too loud!) or without me losing the quieter bits in background noise, or without some form of compression.

Point proven brilliantly and I can't retort against factual evidence.

Shouldn't there be compressed classical music for the road as well? I don't know if such editions exist.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

Then buy the CD *smile* Remastered for iTunes normally means it's mastered to sound good on iThings.

that is what i do just buy CDs anyway *smile*

You need to get into vinyl young man *biggrin*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

Then buy the CD *smile* Remastered for iTunes normally means it's mastered to sound good on iThings.

that is what i do just buy CDs anyway *smile*

You need to get into vinyl young man *biggrin*

well funny you should say that i have a load of vinyl sitting there doing nothing i have all the black sabbath albums on 1st pressings that i have collected over the years but never played any of it and all the ozzy solo albums too but just used the cds as i did not want to mess up my vinyl playing it on a rubbish record player but was thinking down that road to get myself record player but have not got a clue which one to buy but it would have to do justice to my vinyl collection what ever player it was . *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[matt49]

Shouldn't there be compressed classical music for the road as well? I don't know if such editions exist.

It's called Classic FM.

The DR of classical CDs puts almost all recent rock/pop CDs to shame.

 

[Xanderzdad]

My old car stereo had the option of 'compressing' the sound to make it more listenable in a noisy environment such as a car.

It would be so much better if music was distributed in it's less compressed form and then we could choose to compress it when needed.

Once it is compressed by the producer, there is little we can do.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

Then buy the CD *smile* Remastered for iTunes normally means it's mastered to sound good on iThings.

that is what i do just buy CDs anyway *smile*

You need to get into vinyl young man *biggrin*

well funny you should say that i have a load of vinyl sitting there doing nothing i have all the black sabbath albums on 1st pressings that i have collected over the years but never played any of it and all the ozzy solo albums too but just used the cds as i did not want to mess up my vinyl playing it on a rubbish record player but was thinking down that road to get myself record player but have not got a clue which one to buy but it would have to do justice to my vinyl collection what ever player it was . *scratch_one-s_head*

If you've got youngsters then probably not a good idea at the moment. Project Debut Carbon/Rega RP1 are both decent starting points, circa £300 quid, (I had the Project DC before I bought the Pioneer), and your amp has a phono stage so you only need the deck. Maybe something for the future...

 

[lindsayt]

For anyone wondering how endemic excessive use of compression is in modern recordings sort the DR database by year: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year/desc/23

Looking at the releases for 2015; you'll find 20 pages of red to orange mediocrity. Followed by 2 pages of pale greens and 2 pages of dark green quality.

With the majority of dark greens being re-issues of old recordings!

 

[Blacksabbath25]

metallica justice for all has a DR of 14 on cd but see the itunes version of the same album has a really bad DR and its been rematered too

Then buy the CD *smile* Remastered for iTunes normally means it's mastered to sound good on iThings.

that is what i do just buy CDs anyway *smile*

You need to get into vinyl young man *biggrin*

well funny you should say that i have a load of vinyl sitting there doing nothing i have all the black sabbath albums on 1st pressings that i have collected over the years but never played any of it and all the ozzy solo albums too but just used the cds as i did not want to mess up my vinyl playing it on a rubbish record player but was thinking down that road to get myself record player but have not got a clue which one to buy but it would have to do justice to my vinyl collection what ever player it was . *scratch_one-s_head*

If you've got youngsters then probably not a good idea at the moment. Project Debut Carbon/Rega RP1 are both decent starting points, circa £300 quid, (I had the Project DC before I bought the Pioneer), and your amp has a phono stage so you only need the deck. Maybe something for the future...

i have my hi fi on a high chest cabnet so she can not reach it . have post in the record post thread

 

[Deleted member 108165]

For anyone wondering how endemic excessive use of compression is in modern recordings sort the DR database by year: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year/desc/23

Looking at the releases for 2015; you'll find 20 pages of red to orange mediocrity. Followed by 2 pages of pale greens and 2 pages of dark green quality.

With the majority of dark greens being re-issues of old recordings!

Yep, rather revealing isn't it!! Whilst I was playing around with the various sort functions I came across an album by Absolute Hell with a DR of zero, kinda made me chuckle as I guess that's exactly how it sounds *smile*