Anyone heard/use one of these?

[cheeseboy]

Whether anyone reading this believes me is entirely up to them, but for those who don't summarilty dismiss devices such as this without hearing them, and who want to explore maxing out what their expensive kit is capable of delivering, it might be worth checking this device out for themselves.

I do believe you.

my 2p's worth is however, if it were me, and I had to spend 120 squid on something to make a 5k amp sound better, I'd be going back to the amp manufacturer and asking why do they not implement it themselves and why such a small inexpensive device is needed to make it sound better

 

[Vladimir]

The 'improvement' in sound is most likely noise, distortion and smearing in the signal injected by that cheap generic charger that it comes with. 'Different' often sounds better to those who listen to their gear and not the music.

 

[lpv]

I finished reading all th BS they managed to squeeze to the description of the product plus a comment of a happy user... pure BS and immagination.

 

[MajorFubar]

I got as far as reasding this...

The Bass in particular has more weight, is more tuneful and has more texture.

...and realised there was no point in reading any further. When changes to the digital path way (USB cable, coax cable, TOSlink cable, HDMI cable, re-clocking device like this) are said to result in analogue-style improvements like better bass, crisper highs, deeper soundstage, and so on, I realise than no matter how well intended the review is, it's a pointless review, because changes to the digital pathway cannot never not nohow make those kind of improvements or indeed degredations to the perceived sound. (Funny how no one ever says "I tried it and the sound got worse" isn't it?) It's like saying a car drives better with blue seat covers instead of red.

Either way the important thing is it's your money and in your opinion it's been well-spent. So happy days.

 

[Vladimir]

Here comes the "I've tried expensive product X that made sound terrible... but I also was amazed how cheap product Y did great improvement in...". Which amounts to "There are no rule to these things...", you must spend money to go through the trial and error spin machine to find the "best sound in synergy".

yada yada yada...

 

[Infiniteloop]

Whether anyone reading this believes me is entirely up to them, but for those who don't summarilty dismiss devices such as this without hearing them, and who want to explore maxing out what their expensive kit is capable of delivering, it might be worth checking this device out for themselves.

I do believe you.

my 2p's worth is however, if it were me, and I had to spend 120 squid on something to make a 5k amp sound better, I'd be going back to the amp manufacturer and asking why do they not implement it themselves and why such a small inexpensive device is needed to make it sound better

I agree.

And that's exactly why these devices are worthwhile.

 

[Infiniteloop]

"Either way the important thing is it's your money and in your opinion it's been well-spent. So happy days."

Quite.

 

[Infiniteloop]

"At the risk of being inflamatory, my best guess is that expectation bias is the most likely reason for your perceived 'improvements'. "

Which is exactly what I said at the beginning that I would be accused of.

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't.

In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

 

[cheeseboy]

"At the risk of being inflamatory, my best guess is that expectation bias is the most likely reason for your perceived 'improvements'. "

Which is exactly what I said at the beginning that I would be accused of.

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't.

In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

the thing is, and I'm not having a pop, just stating a fact, is that without doing a load of faffy tests - which i wouldn't expect you to do - you can't rule out expectation bias/placebo effect yourself. This, in exactly the same way people can't rule out if it does(nt) make a difference without hearing it. Works both ways.

 

[MajorFubar]

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't. In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

No mate it's not quite the same. If I was to say that all analogue interconnects sound the same and have no effect on the sound of the system, I'd agree that's negative expectation bias, plus it's blatantly wrong, to a point. But the fact is, re-clocking the digital data via one of these devices cannot make a difference to the sound in the way you describe, because digital doesn't work that way. In fact nothing would make it impact the sound in the way you describe other than a digital signal processor that digitally re-EQ'd the audio, or similar, and then it wouldn't be a bit perfect signal analogous to what was sent in. It doesn't really matter that you can't grasp why. But I remain happy that you're happy. So long as you don't think the changes you're hearing are real. And that's probably where we'll have to agree to differ

 

[Infiniteloop]

"At the risk of being inflamatory, my best guess is that expectation bias is the most likely reason for your perceived 'improvements'. "

Which is exactly what I said at the beginning that I would be accused of.

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't.

In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

the thing is, and I'm not having a pop, just stating a fact, is that without doing a load of faffy tests - which i wouldn't expect you to do - you can't rule out expectation bias/placebo effect yourself. This, in exactly the same way people can't rule out if it does(nt) make a difference without hearing it. Works both ways.

That's fine, but if the results are real, as I am sure they are, I get to enjoy a better system.

If the results are due to placebo/bias, as I am sure they are not, I still get to enjoy a 'better' system.

Either way, the system doesn't sound worse.

 

[Infiniteloop]

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't. In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

No mate it's not quite the same. If I was to say that all analogue interconnects sound the same and have no effect on the sound of the system, I'd agree that's negative expectation bias, plus it's blatantly wrong, to a point. But the fact is, re-clocking the digital data via one of these devices cannot make a difference to the sound in the way you describe, because digital doesn't work that way. In fact nothing would make it impact the sound in the way you describe other than a digital signal processor that digitally re-EQ'd the audio, or similar, and then it wouldn't be a bit perfect signal analogous to what was sent in. It doesn't really matter that you can't grasp why. But I remain happy that you're happy. So long as you don't think the changes you're hearing are real. And that's probably where we'll have to agree to differ

What we have to differ on is exactly what you think I can and cannot 'grasp'.

I'm not your 'mate' and you don't have to be quite so condescending.

 

[Vladimir]

Where is ellisdj when you need one.

 

[andyjm]

"At the risk of being inflamatory, my best guess is that expectation bias is the most likely reason for your perceived 'improvements'. "

Which is exactly what I said at the beginning that I would be accused of.

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't.

In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

True, I haven't heard it. But I have designed digital audio systems for a living, and I know a thing or two about electronics.

You have chosen a decent DAC/Amp that neither uses the USB timing information nor the USB power supply - the two things that your USB box is supposed to improve. Given this, the balance of probability that the box is improving an unspecified 'something else' vs the probability that it is expectation bias on your part comes down heavily in favour of expectation bias.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[MajorFubar]

I'm not your 'mate' and you don't have to be quite so condescending.

No intention of sounding condascending which is why I attempted to address you colloquially, which clearly failed and for that I apologise. But I don't apologise for trying to make my point. However as is often the case in debates which attact polar opinions, there's no sure-fire friendly way of telling someone that they're completely mistaken and utterly wrong without them getting shirty about it, even when you do your very best to explain why. But rest assured at no point did I ever intend to insult. Well not in this thread at any rate.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I'm not your 'mate' and you don't have to be quite so condescending.

No intention of sounding condascending which is why I attempted to address you colloquially, which clearly failed and for that I apologise. But I don't apologise for trying to make my point. However as is often the case in debates which attact polar opinions, there's no sure-fire friendly way of telling someone that they're completely mistaken and utterly wrong without them getting shirty about it, even when you do your very best to explain why. But rest assured at no point did I ever intend to insult. Well not in this thread at any rate.

I accept your apology, but what I cannot accept is that you insist I am wrong.

I have heard the device and you haven't.

Until you hear it, you cannot possibly insist that I am wrong, even with the explanantions you have given.

Look, I totally 'get' the theories and science behind why you say this won't work. I ordered the Regen because it piqued my interest as there has been so much interest in it by other Devialet owners. I'm not an idiot and I wasn't expecting much, if any, difference to the sound with the Regen in place. (For the same reason I don't buy overly expensive cables, power conditioners or gold-plated fuses). I also know that the Regen is continually back-ordered and waiting times for it are lengthy, so I could sell the device on, probably for a small profit, if I felt it wasn't an improvement.

I don't know which of the re-clocking, data regeneration or ideal impedance matching directly at the Devialet's USB port are responsible, all I know is that there is clearly an improvement, and the device is staying in my system.

 

[Infiniteloop]

"At the risk of being inflamatory, my best guess is that expectation bias is the most likely reason for your perceived 'improvements'. "

Which is exactly what I said at the beginning that I would be accused of.

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't.

In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

True, I haven't heard it. But I have designed digital audio systems for a living, and I know a thing or two about electronics.

You have chosen a decent DAC/Amp that neither uses the USB timing information nor the USB power supply - the two things that your USB box is supposed to improve. Given this, the balance of probability that the box is improving an unspecified 'something else' vs the probability that it is expectation bias on your part comes down heavily in favour of expectation bias.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

As a Digital Audio System designer, isn't your interest piqued just a little? Surely we cannot know everything there is to know about Digital? In theory maybe, but in practice? - Not even a scientist would agree to that.

Do most Audio companies develop products by measurements alone, or is the fine tuning always done by listening before the product gets launched?

 

[CnoEvil]

Well Mr Loop, if it helps, I'm in your corner. I put a lot of faith in what I hear.....but I'm nuts.

 

[MajorFubar]

Surely we cannot know everything there is to know about Digital? In theory maybe, but in practice? - Not even a scientist would agree to that.

We can because we invented it. We didn't discover it. We invented it, and everything about it. The bit rates, the sample rate, the Nyquist-Shannon theorem which dictates what bit rates and smple rates are audibly transparent. The transmission and receiving protocols, the methods by which it is stored on various types of media, and the methods by which it is read. Theorems probably as long as my arm describe everything there is to know about it in the most minute detail, because it is entirely of human invention.

 

[Vladimir]

John Swenson's Tech Corner

The REGEN uses a common USB hub chip to create a new USB stream. I'm calling this a regeneration not just a reclocking.

Audiophile USB hub. Stranger things have happened in this hobby.

 

[andyjm]

John Swenson's Tech Corner

The REGEN uses a common USB hub chip to create a new USB stream. I'm calling this a regeneration not just a reclocking.

Audiophile USB hub. Stranger things have happened in this hobby.

I read a review of an audiophile SATA cable once......

 

[andyjm]

"At the risk of being inflamatory, my best guess is that expectation bias is the most likely reason for your perceived 'improvements'. "

Which is exactly what I said at the beginning that I would be accused of.

The thing is, without hearing the Regen in place in a system, you have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. You can only guess that it won't.

In other words, you too have an expectation bias.

The difference is, I have heard it and you haven't. And having heard it I can pinpoint where the differences are.

True, I haven't heard it. But I have designed digital audio systems for a living, and I know a thing or two about electronics.

You have chosen a decent DAC/Amp that neither uses the USB timing information nor the USB power supply - the two things that your USB box is supposed to improve. Given this, the balance of probability that the box is improving an unspecified 'something else' vs the probability that it is expectation bias on your part comes down heavily in favour of expectation bias.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

As a Digital Audio System designer, isn't your interest piqued just a little? Surely we cannot know everything there is to know about Digital? In theory maybe, but in practice? - Not even a scientist would agree to that.

Do most Audio companies develop products by measurements alone, or is the fine tuning always done by listening before the product gets launched?

You mention measurements. I couldn't find a single measurement on the USB box. RMS or peak jitter? nothing. Spectral distribution of jitter? nothing. USB supply rail ripple? nothing. USB supply rail switching noise? nothing. So, not unreasonably, I begin to wonder about the device's performance.

As for listening, the listening tests I have participated in have been carefully controlled, in acoustically treated rooms. Repeated substitution of components, performed without the listeners being aware of the substitution. Statistical analysis of results. My guess is that your testing regime was less rigorous.

I don't want to seem argumentative, but you have a damn good Amp/DAC that the designer's have taken some care to make immune to the vagaries of USB links. You have attached a very questionable USB box, with no published spec, that even if it does what it says, won't impact your setup in any way.

I remain surprised that you can't see the illogical nature of your viewpoint.

 

[MajorFubar]

Don't waste your time Andy, you and I both know we're pi**ing against the wind. I'm going back to my idea of selling de-magnetized directional copper interconnect cables for £100 for half a meter, see if I can find some blithering idiot - sorry, valued customers - who'll buy into that.

 

[CnoEvil]

Don't waste your time Andy, you and I both know we're pi**ing against the wind. I'm going back to my idea of selling de-magnetized directional copper interconnect cables for £100 for half a meter, see if I can find some blithering idiot - sorry, valued customers - who'll buy into that.

IMO. Pi**ing against the wind, is why so many of the people with an interesting hifi history have left the forum, or no longer post their experiences.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Well Mr Loop, if it helps, I'm in your corner. I put a lot of faith in what I hear.....but I'm nuts.

Thanks Cno.

An open mind is a truly wondrous thing.