Anyone actually planning to buy a Pono??

[andyjm]

Garbage in, garbage out.

Even if you could tell the difference between 16/44.1 and HiRes (I cant), what's the point of HiRes when record companies only use a fraction of the dynamic range of CDs?

It might be more honest to offer an 8bit Pono - more than enough for most of the compressed rubbish released these days.

While I applaud Neil Young's aims, I am afraid he has grabbed the wrong end of the stick. Its not the players or the format at fault, its the content.

Im starting to sound like my father....

 

[Petherick]

There's an intriguing statement in that cnet report. They say "In that experiment's 554 tests, listeners correctly identified when a SACD or DVD-A recording compared to a CD only 49.8 percent of the time -- in other words, they didn't do better than randomly guessing. To ensure that higher-quality recordings for the audiophile market weren't a factor, Moran and Meyer created CD versions from the higher-resolution originals.". I'm wondering how they created CD versions of SACD material; surely it would have to be by converting D-A and back again?? Which would raise all sorts of other questions.

 

[ROTH AV]

Garbage in, garbage out.

Even if you could tell the difference between 16/44.1 and HiRes (I cant), what's the point of HiRes when record companies only use a fraction of the dynamic range of CDs?

It might be more honest to offer an 8bit Pono - more than enough for most of the compressed rubbish released these days.

While I applaud Neil Young's aims, I am afraid he has grabbed the wrong end of the stick. Its not the players or the format at fault, its the content.

Im starting to sound like my father....

Totally nailed it - couldn't agree more.

I already sound like my Grandfather.

 

[andyjm]

There's an intriguing statement in that cnet report. They say "In that experiment's 554 tests, listeners correctly identified when a SACD or DVD-A recording compared to a CD only 49.8 percent of the time -- in other words, they didn't do better than randomly guessing. To ensure that higher-quality recordings for the audiophile market weren't a factor, Moran and Meyer created CD versions from the higher-resolution originals.". I'm wondering how they created CD versions of SACD material; surely it would have to be by converting D-A and back again?? Which would raise all sorts of other questions.

Digital data is digital data - the great thing is that as long as there is a transfer algorithm available (and you have some programming smarts) you can covert digital chalk to digital cheese.

I recall that there was a PS3 hack that allowed SACDs to be ripped, and I also recall that there were a number of programs available (and I think a foobar addin) that would convert DSD data into FLAC and allow it to be played on a normal PCM DAC. Not sure what the point was, (or how lossless the transfer algorithm was) but I guess people did it because they could. I had a go myself, but gave up early on.

 

[Sliced Bread]

I was considering it until I read this:
http://www.whathifi.com/news/bluesound-hd-wireless-music-streaming-system-takes-on-sonos

Now I'm considering going to have a listen to a Bluesound Node instead.

 

[Kamikaze Bitter]

I can't see it being a sucess - but I can see it being worth buying as a future collectable, particularly the signed special edition one. It could be the Delorean of portable music players! If it didn't have Neil Young on board it probably wouldn't see the light of day.

 

[andyjm]

The one hope is that the planned ponomusic.com store gets access to decent mixes. If record companies can be persuaded to give ponomusic access to mixes with decent dynamic range, then this could be an exciting initiative. I would certainly buy the music. The player however looks to be a commercial dud.

 

[cheeseboy]

dunno about it being a commercial dud. They're up to 4.5 million already with 20 odd days left to go.

Am guessing it's the same hipsters with their macbooks and recently purchased record players will lap it up

 

[andyjm]

It is supposed to be a portable music player.

As Kodak found out to their cost, most people only have room for one device in their pocket, and the device they have is already a portable music player.

Been wrong before, but I just dont see the market for it.

 

[cheeseboy]

It is supposed to be a portable music player.

As Kodak found out to their cost, most people only have room for one device in their pocket, and the device they have is already a portable music player.

Been wrong before, but I just dont see the market for it.

I get what you are saying, but look at the figures already, that's the point I'm making which you seem to be ignoring for some reason. Already they have pre-sold over 10700 players - that's not bad considering there's still 20 days to go. Am sure some hifi manufacturers would wet themselves at shifting that many units of something. And that figure is only going to increase, so I guess the question is how many people do you think it takes before you think there is a market for it?

 

[daveh75]

dunno about it being a commercial dud. They're up to 4.5 million already with 20 odd days left to go.

Am guessing it's the same hipsters with their macbooks and recently purchased record players will lap it up

He's been touting the the thing for the best part of two years though before chucking it on Kickstarter.

Call me cynical, but that suggests to me he hasn't been able to find any investors via traditional means, and isn't prepared to invest his own money (what's 800k to Diamond)

Its upto 4.5 million but that's only 13000 backers

Is that enough for the Pono service to survive after the dust has settled, and what about when all those hipsters have moved onto the next thing to give them some 'cred'

 

[andyjm]

It is supposed to be a portable music player.

As Kodak found out to their cost, most people only have room for one device in their pocket, and the device they have is already a portable music player.

Been wrong before, but I just dont see the market for it.

I get what you are saying, but look at the figures already, that's the point I'm making which you seem to be ignoring for some reason. Already they have pre-sold over 10700 players - that's not bad considering there's still 20 days to go. Am sure some hifi manufacturers would wet themselves at shifting that many units of something. And that figure is only going to increase, so I guess the question is how many people do you think it takes before you think there is a market for it?

I'm not ignoring your point, the point is its not other hifi manufacturers they are competing with.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

The competition happens to be a portable music player, video player, GPS navigator, handheld computer, camera and a phone too (among other things).

If there is any merit to the HiRes argument, a portable player is not the market to go for, others have that sector sewn up.

 

[cheeseboy]

He's been touting the the thing for the best part of two years though before chucking it on Kickstarter.

Call me cynical, but that suggests to me he hasn't been able to find any investors via traditional means, and isn't prepared to invest his own money (what's 800k to Diamond)

Its upto 4.5 million but that's only 13000 backers

Is that enough for the Pono service to survive after the dust has settled, and what about when all those hipsters have moved onto the next thing to give them some 'cred'

who knows, we will have to wait and see I guess. But like i say, to call it a dud when they've already pre sold that many units it a bit wide of the mark i would have said.

Am sure apple will just jump on the bandwagon soon anyways

 

[Paul.]

Am sure apple will just jump on the bandwagon soon anyways

Nah, if they made the iPhone hires, they would have to sell hires music through itunes.

 

[cheeseboy]

I'm not ignoring your point, the point is its not other hifi manufacturers they are competing with.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

The competition happens to be a portable music player, video player, GPS navigator, handheld computer, camera and a phone too (among other things).

If there is any merit to the HiRes argument, a portable player is not the market to go for, others have that sector sewn up.

but they've still managed to pre-sell over 10 thousand units. To me, that's none too shabby. I'm well aware of what it's trying to compete with, but I think you have to do a like for like comparison against current high res portable music players. How many have they sold? Have they sold more than the 10 thousand pono units? If anybody knows, please let me know as I've not been able to find the figures myself.

If you're not doing like for like comparisons then it's pretty pointless. Garmin still sell a lot of gps units, they aren't competing with the iphone. The camera market is still pretty strong, and again they aren't competing with the iphone.

Just because people on here don't buy it to or whatever, doesn't mean it isn't going to sell, as it already has.

 

[cheeseboy]

Am sure apple will just jump on the bandwagon soon anyways

Nah, if they made the iPhone hires, they would have to sell hires music through itunes.

might happen. They need new angles to try and re-sell the same music to people again

 

[ROTH AV]

All interesting points ref commercial viability.

One of my concerns would be the additional unsightly bulge in my trouser pocket, assuming I could get it into my 501s.

 

[daveh75]

Am sure apple will just jump on the bandwagon soon anyways

Nah, if they made the iPhone hires, they would have to sell hires music through itunes.

might happen. They need new angles to try and re-sell the same music to people again

Stranger things have happened. They found a way to monetise piracy (match)

 

[BenLaw]

I'm not ignoring your point, the point is its not other hifi manufacturers they are competing with.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

The competition happens to be a portable music player, video player, GPS navigator, handheld computer, camera and a phone too (among other things).

If there is any merit to the HiRes argument, a portable player is not the market to go for, others have that sector sewn up.

but they've still managed to pre-sell over 10 thousand units. To me, that's none too shabby. I'm well aware of what it's trying to compete with, but I think you have to do a like for like comparison against current high res portable music players. How many have they sold? Have they sold more than the 10 thousand pono units? If anybody knows, please let me know as I've not been able to find the figures myself.

If you're not doing like for like comparisons then it's pretty pointless. Garmin still sell a lot of gps units, they aren't competing with the iphone. The camera market is still pretty strong, and again they aren't competing with the iphone.

Just because people on here don't buy it to or whatever, doesn't mean it isn't going to sell, as it already has.

Andy's point (right IMO) is you don't need to compare like for like, as there's no significant market for hi-res players, whichever particular company sells them. If you're right and these sales are besting the competition, you're talking a worldwide market of 15,000 to date? That's bobbins, and I'd be surprised if it was enough to remain viable.

 

[NHL]

No, it does not stream,

copy paste to internal memory is too old school.

Ayre is cool, though.

 

[cheeseboy]

Andy's point (right IMO) is you don't need to compare like for like, as there's no significant market for hi-res players, whichever particular company sells them. If you're right and these sales are besting the competition, you're talking a worldwide market of 15,000 to date? That's bobbins, and I'd be surprised if it was enough to remain viable.

why don't you need to compare like for like? As I said, Garmin sell plenty of gps units when as has been said, you could just an iphone. Why not say that there is no market for hifi seperates because you can lob an iphone in to a speaker dock/all in one and be done with it?

Ahhh wait you say, but there's a market for hifi. Yes, i know there is, but some of the hifi we talk about on here would give their left arm to have shifted over 10 thousands units of a product. that's the point. How many speakers do AVI sell in a year? (i don't know, it's a genuine question) People are saying there isn't a market for it, but I say those 10 thousand people have already said that they think there is a market for it, no matter what you think. In hifi there's a lot of niche markets that cater to certain sections, and I don't see this as any different. FiiO think there is a market, so does Astel and Kern. Sony are touring hi-res and I'm betting once they've seen how well the pono is doing at the moment they'll think about releasing one.

Is it viable? I have no idea, you'd have to ask those that make them, which is why I was asking if anybody knew about sales figures for the players that are already out there. Personally i can't see the company lasting long on the one product and without the promised market place coming out with some great exclusive stuff, but then again, if this company are trying to get more record companies to sort out their mastering issues and release decent copies of stuff (even if it is through the guise of hi res) then surely that's something everybody here should be backing, not lambasing isn't it? Find it a bit odd the amount of people who bemoan the whole loudness thing, and here's a company actively seeking to help rectify the issue and it's being met with cold shoulders. Dunno, just find it odd that a load of people who want the best quality they can get their hands on are so anti a device that's trying to help them, and others do that :?

 

[The_Lhc]

Sony are touring hi-res and I'm betting once they've seen how well the pono is doing at the moment they'll think about releasing one.

Errm, they already have, previewed, released, reviewed.

 

[cheeseboy]

Sony are touring hi-res and I'm betting once they've seen how well the pono is doing at the moment they'll think about releasing one.

Errm, they already have, previewed, released, reviewed.

wooosh I missed that one Thank you

 

[Alec]

Andy's point (right IMO) is you don't need to compare like for like, as there's no significant market for hi-res players, whichever particular company sells them. If you're right and these sales are besting the competition, you're talking a worldwide market of 15,000 to date? That's bobbins, and I'd be surprised if it was enough to remain viable.

why don't you need to compare like for like? As I said, Garmin sell plenty of gps units when as has been said, you could just an iphone.

Or one of the many other mobiles out there.

 

[ifor]

I was considering it until I read this:
http://www.whathifi.com/news/bluesound-hd-wireless-music-streaming-system-takes-on-sonos

Now I'm considering going to have a listen to a Bluesound Node instead.

Beep is also on it's way as an alternative to Bluesound.