Any verdicts on my short list ? (or suggested alternatives)

inbox4

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Hi, is anyone able to share any opinions/ experience of the 2 systems on my short list?

I am about to move house and want to buy a system for a small room which measures approx 3m x 3m. I would ideally like floorstanders but think they would probably overpower a room of this size. I have therefore limited my shortlist to the following 2 options with bookshelf speakers:

1) B&W PM1s + Musical Fidelity M6i

2)ATC SCM19 + ATC SIA2-150

Which is likely to be the superior system overall?

Which is likely to suit the listening room size better?

Does everyone agree that floorstanders should be avoided in a room with the measurements above. If not, which floorstanders might be suitable?

I know how important auditioning equipment first hand is and I completely intend on doing so. I've not yet had the chance and won't be able to for a while so would appreciate other people's comments and expertise.

Many thanks.
 
Hi inbox

Not heard the MF and only heard the PM1s briefly with a Cyrus system. I would suggest that the PM1s would need a really ballsy amp (due to their diminutive size), but whether the MF is gutsy enough I couldn't say. To that end I'd look at Naim Nait XS-2, Roksan Caspian, Leema Pulse, Unison...

Not heard the ATCs, so can't comment.

Yes, standmounters would be safer bet, although if you can locate some Totem Arro, they could be dangled from the lampshades. They are titchy in stature but huge in sound. Fabulous.

Also agree that a dem is essential. I wouldn't even think about buying a potential system without hearing first.
 

inbox4

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Thanks Plastic P.

Interesting comments about the PM1s requiring a ballsy amp. This is why I was thinking of the M6i as it is a 200wpc amp with great current from what I've read?

Which amp did you hear the PM1s with? Did you like the sound?

I've read a lot of great things about the Naim amp but wondered whether it would be sufficient for the PM1s.
 
inbox4 said:
Thanks Plastic P.

Interesting comments about the PM1s requiring a ballsy amp. This is why I was thinking of the M6i as it is a 200wpc amp with great current from what I've read?

Which amp did you hear the PM1s with? Did you like the sound?

I've read a lot of great things about the Naim amp but wondered whether it would be sufficient for the PM1s.

Really depends how loud you play your music whether the Naim will be sufficent. But yes, I didn't know the M6i was 200 watts so should have more than enough oomph, but only a dem will tell you if it synergises with the B&Ws or not. For me personally, the synergy is far more important than outright power.

And yes, as I said I've only heard the B&Ws briefly but came away with the feeling they needed a gutsier amp than the Cyrus 8XPD.
 

CnoEvil

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The M6i doubles its power into 4 Ohms and again into 2 Ohms (800W); it also can also produce 45 amps of peak current...so no worries on any speaker.

If it was me, I would match the M6i with some Spendors or Harbeths...but that's the sound I like.
 

inbox4

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Thanks CnoEvil.

Which specific Spendor or Harbeth models would you suggest as most suitable and have you heard them paired with the MF?

Are you able to put the 45 amp peak current comment into context? How would this compare to Cyrus or Naim amps for example and what are the implications of this?
 

CnoEvil

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My favorite small speaker is the Spendor SA1, but there is also Classic R SP31R Mk2.

On the Harbeth front, there is the HLP 3ESR or Compact 7ES.

The above speakers are very natural and musical sounding, but don't produce thundering bass. If you like the Spendor sound and want more bass, look at the A5 or A6.

Amps don't always give their peak amps (or their power into 4 ohms).....unless they are proud of their performance in this area. You can trawl the specs if you are interested, but I would be surprised if most (any) of the competition get anywhere near that.

The implications of this is great control over speakers (especially bass), and means the M6i has no problem with hard to drive ones, whose impedance drops dramatically.
 

paradiziac

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CnoEvil said:
My favorite small speaker is the Spendor SA1, but there is also Classic R SP31R Mk2. On the Harbeth front, there is the HLP 3ESR or Compact 7ES.

I owned Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3's for a (short) time. They're far from "compact", though as sealed boxes they weren't boomy or fussy about positioning.

The midrange is great, spoken voices sound like real people in the room! A solo voice and a guitar is sublime. However, I found the bass timing awful. The end result was that I preferred my budget speakers, price notwithstanding. Could be me--they seem to attract almost universal praise from discerning audiophiles. Maybe stacks of power/current would wake them up, though I doubt it, since "Harbethians" tend to go on about them not needing super-amps to drive them.

Just goes to show there's no accounting for taste ;)
 

inbox4

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Thanks everyone for the input so far, very interesting.

Does anyone specifically have experience of the ATC amp/ speakers mentioned above or the MF M6i? (I think I have a good idea of what to expect from the PM1s)
 

CnoEvil

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IMO The M6i is an open, powerful musical sound, with a hint of warmth. The bass is deep and solid, and the treble is "clear and airy" without tip-toeing into aggression....it has great control and authority over the music it is playing....making a nice match with the Spendors.
Here is another member's view: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/musical-fidelity-m6i-integrated-amplifier-review

Regarding ATC, my choice would be matching them with something like a Sugden, as their revealing nature will let the glory of Class A shine through. See hear (from post No.5)
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/connecting-atc-scm-40s-help?page=1
 

jaxwired

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If you really want floorstanders, why not consider PMC GB1i's or Totem Arro's. They are both small and will take up a lot less room than ATC SCM19s on stands (which are huge standmount speakers). The PMC's would be my choice. But either of these speakers are very flexible regarding room placement. They would both match nicely with the MF M6i. But they'd also work with a less powerful amp. A Cyrus would be nice with these since the half width chasis allows for a nice compact system.
 

inbox4

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Jaxwired - I think I'll have to find some PMC speakers to audition through peer pressure. They are regularly recommended and seem to be very highly thought of and capable in the room size I am looking at. Funnily enough Totem speakers have joined my short list and I have a dealer very close (Leicester). My dealer was recommending the Sttaf when I spoke to him by phone. Do you have any experience fo this speaker?

CnoEvil - Your comments on the M6i are very exciting. You should be in sales (if you're not already!). The characteristics you describe are everything I'd hoped for. (incidentally I used to have an MF A1 amp as a student which I loved very much...and it helped keep my room warm!)

I'm surprised you recommend Sugden with ATC however. It was my understanding that ATC speakers require bags of power and however good the Sudgens are supposed to be, I didn't think they offered this?
 

CnoEvil

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No, I'm afraid I'm not in sales, but I do my best to describe what I hear.

The fact you liked the A1 (Class A), tells me that you may never be truly happy unless you end up with Valves, Solid State Class A or a Hybrid; so make sure you include some of these in your shortlist eg. Pathos (hybrid), Icon Audio (valves), Unison Research Unico (hybrid) and Pure Sound (valves).

SS Class A (Sugden) have plenty of current, which is why they sound more powerful than they look on paper (just ask the owners on here)..worth a demo to hear for yourself.

For musical sounding solid state look to Lavardin, Electrocompaniet and Audio Analogue.
 

tyranniux42

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Hi,

not sure whether you are still interested in the Nait XS but would suggest having a look for one of my previous threads about the PM1 speaker which I auditioned earlier in the year with my XS. Great sound but in the massive room that I tested them in the XS struggled to control them at higher volumes due to their low sensitivity. You would not likely encounter this in the size of your room but would be cautious if you like bass heavy or loud music. What I did end up with in the end (as per my signature) are the Ovator S400's which even in my modest listening space (effectively 4x3 and I listen across the short length so I am approx 2m from the speakers) do not boom due to their sealed enclosures. I love them but may not to be everyones taste. Another option to consider though if in budget.....

regards
 

inbox4

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Thanks T42, those speakers look massive for my room but I note your comments re their suitability in your Listening room which isn't too different to mine. I have never heard a single piece of Naim equipment in all my years as a music/ hifi lover. Perhaps they are a brand I should check out too (the possibility list is growing!)

Cno - your comments are starting to confuse me a little. With the current the Sugden offers, would it sound as effortless as the mighty M6i or a bit weak at high volumes and fussy about speaker pairing?

This is the first post I've made on WHF and I'm blown away by the help and knowledge and level of response. Thanks all. Much appreciated.
 
inbox4 said:
Hi, is anyone able to share any opinions/ experience of the 2 systems on my short list?

I am about to move house and want to buy a system for a small room which measures approx 3m x 3m. I would ideally like floorstanders but think they would probably overpower a room of this size. I have therefore limited my shortlist to the following 2 options with bookshelf speakers:

1) B&W PM1s + Musical Fidelity M6i

2)ATC SCM19 + ATC SIA2-150

Which is likely to be the superior system overall?

Which is likely to suit the listening room size better?

Does everyone agree that floorstanders should be avoided in a room with the measurements above. If not, which floorstanders might be suitable?

I know how important auditioning equipment first hand is and I completely intend on doing so. I've not yet had the chance and won't be able to for a while so would appreciate other people's comments and expertise.

Many thanks.

Hi inbox4

Both systems should work in your the size of your room. If you want an amp/speaker combination that will reproduce the quality of your source component/s and recordings as closer to the the original in an uncoloured and natural manner then ATC's SIA2-150 MK2/SCM19 monitors is the one to consider. If not then the Musical Fidelity M6i/B&W PM1 speaker combination should do the trick for you.

Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM bookshelf speakers currently available on the market regardless of price.

Btw, what source component/s will you use?

What do you generally listen to?

Merry Christmas

Rick @ Musicraft
 

tyranniux42

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inbox4 said:
Thanks T42, those speakers look massive for my room but I note your comments re their suitability in your Listening room which isn't too different to mine. I have never heard a single piece of Naim equipment in all my years as a music/ hifi lover. Perhaps they are a brand I should check out too (the possibility list is growing!)

No problem, I too had never heard any Naim gear until I initially auditioned the CD5i spinner, made the mistake of listening to the Nait XS too and bought the pair. 6 months later I traded the CD5i for the CD5xs and traded my trusty B&W 683's for the Ovators (+ a lot of cash!).

now im considering power supplies and at this moment fancy the dual teddy cap.... so it continues :rockout:

safe to say im a total Naimee but at the end of the day its all subjective and very personal, I auditioned a lot of gear (Arcam, Roksan etc) before I heard the Naim, for me its hands down my cup of tea!

regards
 

CnoEvil

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The Sugden will not match the M6i for power and control, but imo makes up for this by having an innate musicality and naturalness which exceeds that of the M6i.
It may have enough power for your needs, depending on how loud you play your music. If you read the link, you will see that a 33 Watt Sugden Class A amp was preferred to the 150 Watt ATC one.

I can't possibly "know" which you will prefer, only offer suggestions for you to try. The Sugden would be closer in presentation to the A1 that you liked, than the M6i.

This is all academic till you start hearing for yourself. I own a MF AMS 35i, whose 35 Watts sound unfeasibly loud , as it doubles its power into 4 ohms and again into 2 Ohms.
 

altruistic.lemon

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paradiziac said:
CnoEvil said:
My favorite small speaker is the Spendor SA1, but there is also Classic R SP31R Mk2. On the Harbeth front, there is the HLP 3ESR or Compact 7ES.

I owned Harbeth Compact 7 ES-3's for a (short) time. They're far from "compact", though as sealed boxes they weren't boomy or fussy about positioning.

The midrange is great, spoken voices sound like real people in the room! A solo voice and a guitar is sublime. However, I found the bass timing awful. The end result was that I preferred my budget speakers, price notwithstanding. Could be me--they seem to attract almost universal praise from discerning audiophiles. Maybe stacks of power/current would wake them up, though I doubt it, since "Harbethians" tend to go on about them not needing super-amps to drive them.

Just goes to show there's no accounting for taste ;)
The dealer where I heard the Harbeths (and I really rate them) was reluctant to use the Nait5i with them, on the grounds they need 100W as a minimum. From what I heard, he was right.
 

paradiziac

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altruistic.lemon said:
The dealer where I heard the Harbeths (and I really rate them) was reluctant to use the Nait5i with them, on the grounds they need 100W as a minimum. From what I heard, he was right.

That's interesting! Maybe someone should post that on the Harbeth forum and see what the designer, Alan Shaw, says!

Based on my experience, I find your comments far more believable than those of the legions of internet forum posters who say the C7 ES-3 is an easy load, designed for all types of amplification.

But there again, there are folks out there happily running Naim 5i + Harbeth who are blown away by the combination...
 

millerman

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I used to own a MF M6i which I paired with schonberg viena speakers. this combination was superb, well balanced and very musical.

If you are goign down the hard rock, garage or house genre route you may wish for more bass but frankly I was more than satisfiied.

Good luck it sounds like you will have a great system whatever you decide
 

inbox4

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MUSICRAFT said:
inbox4 said:
Hi, is anyone able to share any opinions/ experience of the 2 systems on my short list?

I am about to move house and want to buy a system for a small room which measures approx 3m x 3m. I would ideally like floorstanders but think they would probably overpower a room of this size. I have therefore limited my shortlist to the following 2 options with bookshelf speakers:

1) B&W PM1s + Musical Fidelity M6i

2)ATC SCM19 + ATC SIA2-150

Which is likely to be the superior system overall?

Which is likely to suit the listening room size better?

Does everyone agree that floorstanders should be avoided in a room with the measurements above. If not, which floorstanders might be suitable?

I know how important auditioning equipment first hand is and I completely intend on doing so. I've not yet had the chance and won't be able to for a while so would appreciate other people's comments and expertise.

Many thanks.

Hi inbox4

Both systems should work in your the size of your room. If you want an amp/speaker combination that will reproduce the quality of your source component/s and recordings as closer to the the original in an uncoloured and natural manner then ATC's SIA2-150 MK2/SCM19 monitors is the one to consider. If not then the Musical Fidelity M6i/B&W PM1 speaker combination should do the trick for you.

Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM bookshelf speakers currently available on the market regardless of price.

Btw, what source component/s will you use?

What do you generally listen to?

Merry Christmas

Rick @ Musicraft

Merry Christmas to you Rick.

Do you have this ATC system on demo by any chance? I would love to try and make it over to see you later in the week and have an audition.

Is the sound you describe ever overly analytical, dry and dare I say a bit boring ever? I'm intrigued by the ATC sound especially after your enthusiastic comments and look forward to hearing it but wonder how I'll get on with an analytical presentation.
 

inbox4

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CnoEvil said:
The Sugden will not match the M6i for power and control, but imo makes up for this by having an innate musicality and naturalness which exceeds that of the M6i. It may have enough power for your needs, depending on how loud you play your music. If you read the link, you will see that a 33 Watt Sugden Class A amp was preferred to the 150 Watt ATC one. I can't possibly "know" which you will prefer, only offer suggestions for you to try. The Sugden would be closer in presentation to the A1 that you liked, than the M6i. This is all academic till you start hearing for yourself. I own a MF AMS 35i, whose 35 Watts sound unfeasibly loud , as it doubles its power into 4 ohms and again into 2 Ohms.

An AMS35i, very nice. I'd love to have one of those at the top of my consideration list. Which speakers do you use them with?

You're turning into my hifi guru!
 

CnoEvil

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inbox4 said:
An AMS35i, very nice. I'd love to have one of those at the top of my consideration list. Which speakers do you use them with?

My speakers are Kef Reference 205/2, with the source being Linn Majik DS. The AMS35i has no trouble driving them, despite their impedance dropping to a low of 3.2 Ohms.
 
inbox4 said:
MUSICRAFT said:
inbox4 said:
Hi, is anyone able to share any opinions/ experience of the 2 systems on my short list?

I am about to move house and want to buy a system for a small room which measures approx 3m x 3m. I would ideally like floorstanders but think they would probably overpower a room of this size. I have therefore limited my shortlist to the following 2 options with bookshelf speakers:

1) B&W PM1s + Musical Fidelity M6i

2)ATC SCM19 + ATC SIA2-150

Which is likely to be the superior system overall?

Which is likely to suit the listening room size better?

Does everyone agree that floorstanders should be avoided in a room with the measurements above. If not, which floorstanders might be suitable?

I know how important auditioning equipment first hand is and I completely intend on doing so. I've not yet had the chance and won't be able to for a while so would appreciate other people's comments and expertise.

Many thanks.

Hi inbox4

Both systems should work in your the size of your room. If you want an amp/speaker combination that will reproduce the quality of your source component/s and recordings as closer to the the original in an uncoloured and natural manner then ATC's SIA2-150 MK2/SCM19 monitors is the one to consider. If not then the Musical Fidelity M6i/B&W PM1 speaker combination should do the trick for you.

Fwiw, i feel SCM19 monitors are probably the finest VFM bookshelf speakers currently available on the market regardless of price.

Btw, what source component/s will you use?

What do you generally listen to?

Merry Christmas

Rick @ Musicraft

Merry Christmas to you Rick.

Do you have this ATC system on demo by any chance? I would love to try and make it over to see you later in the week and have an audition.

Is the sound you describe ever overly analytical, dry and dare I say a bit boring ever? I'm intrigued by the ATC sound especially after your enthusiastic comments and look forward to hearing it but wonder how I'll get on with an analytical presentation.

Hi inbox4

Yes, i do have the SIA2-150 MK2 and SCM19 monitors available for demonstration. You can also see the massive professional studio SLMT (Super Linear Magnet Technology) mid/bass drive unit which is used in SCM19 monitors.

The SIA2-150 MK2/SCM19 monitors are low distortion transparent designs (based on some of the finest professional audio products) which i don't find to be dry or somewhat boring.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

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