any one interested in vintage hifi

[Vladimir]

What do you reckon to Arcam alpha 10 amplifier

I'd toss it in the trash on looks alone.

It would certainly split opinions in the looks department wouldn't it? But is it a Classic, I don't know, never heard one.

The so called Classics are the ones to go for and resurrect I feel, both for sound quality and long term economic considerations.

The line between collecting vintage and hoarding trash is very thin, and most of the time blurred because everyone sets their own rules. It's not a hobby for logical, practical and sane men.

One thing I've learned is to aim very cheap in order to avoid dissapointment. High prices do not guarantee you that a unit is professionally maintained, serviced, repaired, stored well, not abused, not bodged or even working at all. And the more you pay for old stuff in better nick, bigger your dissapointment/disenchantment with 'vintage' will be. But if you buy cheap, you shrug off your fails and move on. Sometimes you buy broken things and it turns out they just needed a new fuse or few Servisol squirts.

Second most important thing I've learned is that people lie with a straight face or feed your inaccurate info out of ignorance/delusions. Truth is rarely presented to you when hunting for vintage stuff. If you think hifi salesmen and marketing departments lie, wait till you hit the local ads. You need skepticism and research to survive. Nostalgia and romanticizing things kills the wallet.

 

[Al ears]

What do you reckon to Arcam alpha 10 amplifier

I'd toss it in the trash on looks alone.

It would certainly split opinions in the looks department wouldn't it? But is it a Classic, I don't know, never heard one.

The so called Classics are the ones to go for and resurrect I feel, both for sound quality and long term economic considerations.

The line between collecting vintage and hoarding trash is very thin, and most of the time blurred because everyone sets their own rules. It's not a hobby for logical, practical and sane men.

One thing I've learned is to aim very cheap in order to avoid dissapointment. High prices do not guarantee you that a unit is professionally maintained, serviced, repaired, stored well, not abused, not bodged or even working at all. And the more you pay for old stuff in better nick, bigger your dissapointment/disenchantment with 'vintage' will be. But if you buy cheap, you shrug off your fails and move on. Sometimes you buy broken things and it turns out they just needed a new fuse or few Servisol squirts.

Second most important thing I've learned is that people lie with a straight face or feed your inaccurate info out of ignorance/delusions. Truth is rarely presented to you when hunting for vintage stuff. If you think hifi salesmen and marketing departments lie, wait till you hit the local ads. You need skepticism and research to survive. Nostalgia and romanticizing things kills the wallet.

Couldn't have put it better myself. One way to keep old s-crappy electronics from the landfills, put it in someone's shed /attic ;-)

 

[Vladimir]

Couldn't have put it better myself. One way to keep old s-crappy electronics from the landfills, put it in someone's shed /attic ;-)

(this bit of text disappeared from my previous post *unknw*)

Classical range is probably where the best deals can be had. It's not old enough to be glamourous but also not old enough to be moldy, deteriorated cluster of dust and nicotine. Most of late 90's, 00's gear doesn't need any fixing and cleaning, with few exceptions - NAD and other lead free soldered kit, SMD electrolytics near hot transistors etc.

 

[lindsayt]

One of my £15 Denon C630 CD players has stopped working. Instead of fixing it / buying a replacement mech I've decided to buy another CD player.

£20 for a Marantz CD-48.

I'll probably spend more on lunch on the way to collecting it.

 

[Vladimir]

One of my £15 Denon C630 CD players has stopped working. Instead of fixing it / buying a replacement mech I've decided to buy another CD player.

£20 for a Marantz CD-48.

I'll probably spend more on lunch on the way to collecting it.

Exactly my point when I mentioned to go cheap to avoid big fails. More high end Pioneer, Denon, Marantz CDP won't cost you only 20 quid and when it fails spare parts may be unobtanium.

 

[Andrewjvt]

One of my £15 Denon C630 CD players has stopped working. Instead of fixing it / buying a replacement mech I've decided to buy another CD player.

£20 for a Marantz CD-48.

I'll probably spend more on lunch on the way to collecting it.

The collection trip food
Done a few of those recently

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Been reading a little bit on hifi history

i did not realize that hifi started properly after the Second World War from some of the technology used then and some of the best vintage amplifiers were made between 1968 -1977 which were low powered models as there were need for 300 watts like some people want today .

and I read that a lot of the amplifiers back then started to be over engineered and if the company could save money even if it was just 1p they would do .

marantz made very good amplifiers in this period which were no more then 30 - 50 watt amplifiers and then people were asking for more watts and this is when companies like marantz started to make not very good amplifiers for a short period and then went back to to making amplifiers that were around the 70 watts mark . I also read that cooper screws that they use today on there reference range amplifiers were used back in the 1970s not for show or sound improvements but as tampering screws so they knew if someone had opened up the amplifier that made me laugh .

 

[Vladimir]

Been reading a little bit on hifi history

i did not realize that hifi started properly after the Second World War from some of the technology used then and some of the best vintage amplifiers were made between 1968 -1977 which were low powered models as there were need for 300 watts like some people want today .

and I read that a lot of the amplifiers back then started to be over engineered and if the company could save money even if it was just 1p they would do .

marantz made very good amplifiers in this period which were no more then 30 - 50 watt amplifiers and then people were asking for more watts and this is when companies like marantz started to make not very good amplifiers for a short period and then went back to to making amplifiers that were around the 70 watts mark . I also read that cooper screws that they use today on there reference range amplifiers were used back in the 1970s not for show or sound improvements but as tampering screws so they knew if someone had opened up the amplifier that made me laugh .

What started the monster amp trend was the huge market share and popularity of the new sealed speaker cabinet designs inovated by Acoustic Research, KLH, Boston Acoustics and Advent (East-Coast sound). AR also invented the dome speaker and ferro-fluid cooling for it. I used to own the AR-6 and AR-11B, paired with a Harman Kardon HK6900.

Anyways. Here's a video that may interest you: A brief history of live sound reinforcement.

 

[lindsayt]

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Been reading a little bit on hifi history

i did not realize that hifi started properly after the Second World War from some of the technology used then and some of the best vintage amplifiers were made between 1968 -1977 which were low powered models as there were need for 300 watts like some people want today .

and I read that a lot of the amplifiers back then started to be over engineered and if the company could save money even if it was just 1p they would do .

marantz made very good amplifiers in this period which were no more then 30 - 50 watt amplifiers and then people were asking for more watts and this is when companies like marantz started to make not very good amplifiers for a short period and then went back to to making amplifiers that were around the 70 watts mark . I also read that cooper screws that they use today on there reference range amplifiers were used back in the 1970s not for show or sound improvements but as tampering screws so they knew if someone had opened up the amplifier that made me laugh .

What started the monster amp trend was the huge market share and popularity of the new http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/vintage-hifi-reviews.html

 

[pyrrhon]

Vintage in audio is like wine exept it gets cheaper as it gets better!

 

[eggontoast]

What do you reckon to Arcam alpha 10 amplifier which was the flagship amplifier from Arcam from the 1990s which back then I did own a Arcam alpha 7se cdplayer and a Arcam AV9 and the power amp P7 I think it was but remember I liked the sound .

The Alpha 10 still is an excellent, powerful amplifier, whether it will become a classic is very much doubtful due to the aesthetics. This was one of the major complaints when it was on sale hence they gave it a new look and relaunched it as the FMJ-A22, exactly the same amplifier in a 'full metal jacket'. They still command quite a high price though.

 

[Vladimir]

Been reading a little bit on hifi history

i did not realize that hifi started properly after the Second World War from some of the technology used then and some of the best vintage amplifiers were made between 1968 -1977 which were low powered models as there were need for 300 watts like some people want today .

and I read that a lot of the amplifiers back then started to be over engineered and if the company could save money even if it was just 1p they would do .

marantz made very good amplifiers in this period which were no more then 30 - 50 watt amplifiers and then people were asking for more watts and this is when companies like marantz started to make not very good amplifiers for a short period and then went back to to making amplifiers that were around the 70 watts mark . I also read that cooper screws that they use today on there reference range amplifiers were used back in the 1970s not for show or sound improvements but as tampering screws so they knew if someone had opened up the amplifier that made me laugh .

What started the monster amp trend was the huge market share and popularity of the new http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/vintage-hifi-reviews.html

Thanks, first time I'm seeing it. Will enjoy reading the hifi section. *ok*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Been reading a little bit on hifi history

i did not realize that hifi started properly after the Second World War from some of the technology used then and some of the best vintage amplifiers were made between 1968 -1977 which were low powered models as there were need for 300 watts like some people want today .

and I read that a lot of the amplifiers back then started to be over engineered and if the company could save money even if it was just 1p they would do .

marantz made very good amplifiers in this period which were no more then 30 - 50 watt amplifiers and then people were asking for more watts and this is when companies like marantz started to make not very good amplifiers for a short period and then went back to to making amplifiers that were around the 70 watts mark . I also read that cooper screws that they use today on there reference range amplifiers were used back in the 1970s not for show or sound improvements but as tampering screws so they knew if someone had opened up the amplifier that made me laugh .

What started the monster amp trend was the huge market share and popularity of the new http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/vintage-hifi-reviews.html

Thanks, first time I'm seeing it. Will enjoy reading the hifi section. *ok*

this page is a good read what makes a got hifi ..... http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/deciding-top-amps.html

 

[Vladimir]

Been reading a little bit on hifi history

i did not realize that hifi started properly after the Second World War from some of the technology used then and some of the best vintage amplifiers were made between 1968 -1977 which were low powered models as there were need for 300 watts like some people want today .

and I read that a lot of the amplifiers back then started to be over engineered and if the company could save money even if it was just 1p they would do .

marantz made very good amplifiers in this period which were no more then 30 - 50 watt amplifiers and then people were asking for more watts and this is when companies like marantz started to make not very good amplifiers for a short period and then went back to to making amplifiers that were around the 70 watts mark . I also read that cooper screws that they use today on there reference range amplifiers were used back in the 1970s not for show or sound improvements but as tampering screws so they knew if someone had opened up the amplifier that made me laugh .

What started the monster amp trend was the huge market share and popularity of the new http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/vintage-hifi-reviews.html

Thanks, first time I'm seeing it. Will enjoy reading the hifi section. *ok*

this page is a good read what makes a got hifi ..... http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/deciding-top-amps.html

Yup, a lot of cost cutting in mid tier and budget amps began after the mid 70's. The TA7136P opamp replaces a whole EQ board in the pramp section of my Techncis SU-7700. I can replace it with a better opamp but why bother since I don't use the tone controls. I prefer the IC since it goes into defeat mode if I keep the pots on flat. Also imagine how many caps and cold solder joints would need to be fixed to get that separate EQ board working again. Making lemonade here, not that I wouldn't like a full sized fully discrete analogue amp in immaculate condition. In general I'm against 'upgrading' or changing anything in vintage gear unless it needs to get it working again. Keep it original.

 

[Vladimir]

Your thoughts on this writeup gents?

Excerpt:

Over the years, I’ve owned dozens of speakers, some of which are considered classic vintage. I owned a pair of Altec A7 Voice of the Theater horn speakers in the early ‘70s. They were used as P.A. speakers for one of my working bands, and they did a very nice job in that application. On a rare off week, I wrestled them up into my apartment, salivating in anticipation, and hooked them up to my vintage Dynaco tube electronics, expecting them to handily outperform the two Large Advents I owned at the time. Instead, I was shocked at how horrible the Altecs sounded. They had no bass extension (60 Hz at best), no treble extension (12 kHz at best), and they possessed a forward, harsh midrange, something that can be confirmed by looking at their frequency response curve. I happened to relate my saga of disappointment as my first post on a vintage hi-fi Facebook page, and I got pummeled by enraged enthusiasts who, unlike me, had never owned Voice of the Theaters. My observations are validated in this article. The fact that these speakers are pretty much unlistenable does not take anything away from their cool factor, though, much as a ’68 Dodge Charger with a 383 4bbl is cool…albeit with clumsy handling and lethargic acceleration.

There were some nice speakers from the ‘50s and ‘60s, actually, and some exception speakers from the ‘70s and ‘80s. While many had an appealing but unnatural sound, there were a few that strived for accuracy. I always loved the pure midrange of the original 1957 Quad ESL-57, an inefficient, fragile speaker that blew up solid state amplifiers due to its reactive load. I owned a single AR-4 (before there was stereo), and it was an accurate if not somewhat boring and subdued speaker, with surprisingly good bass. The AR-2ax and AR-3a models were much better, and they were probably the most accurate speakers of the period, if you didn’t consider dynamic range or high output very important. Other notable successes from this era were Bozak, JBL, Klipsch, and a few other designs that had an impressive and satisfying sound. I would rank the big JBLs near the top of my favorites from back then.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Going by what I've read no hifi has not changed that much

the materials used to build a amplifier or speakers have changed a little but amplifiers and speakers are pretty much the same as they were 40 -50 years ago but not sure when hifi company's started to use the large power supply's or when they started to have amplifiers that could handle 4 -3-2 ohm loads

some speakers use new technology that were not around 40-50 years ago i.e. Soft powder magnets used in my speakers and some cone technology has changed but the basic principle is still the same as it was back then .

But going by what I am starting to learn by what I've read that far to meany people buy because of reviews and that those reviews are completely gospel and the fact that advertising a product in the right way makes people believe they are getting something better for there money but really it's clever advertising .

but hifi companies know that people want better all of the time by making people believe that things like cooper shielding inside a amplifier will make it sound better as a example so people will pay that £100 or more for that cooper shielding so if you want better then pay more to get better that's how I think it's got so in other words there is a lot of snake oil in what the hifi companies come out with .

 

[Vladimir]

Thiele/Small parameters didn't come until 1972. Before that design of ported speakers was a joke.

Before 1970 and Dr. Matti Otala amplifier designers had no bloody clue of intermodular distortion (TIM).

In that period KEF paid 1 million pounds to buy a computer for its speaker design needs. Today everything is designed, simulated and rapid prototyped with computers, 3D printers and CNC.

Of course luddites say sodd all. Old is good, new is bad.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I keep reading on the old vintage amplifiers there is a lot to go wrong with old and can be expensive to re cap and service which makes me think is it really worth it and I do understand why people have them modified to make them more reliable .

and I know modern amplifiers go wrong as much as the old ones do but some of those old amplifiers are so nice looking like some of the marantz , Yamaha models which is what I would buy if was to get one .

ideally I wanted the Yamaha ca 2100 which I know it's basically the same as what I've got now but hard to find .

 

[Vladimir]

CA-2010 is from 1977. Nothing cheap or cost cutting about that amp. A legend.

This is freakin porn.

 

[Vladimir]

I'd rather have the original 2010. *man_in_love*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I'd rather have the original 2010. *man_in_love*

i am just being greedy mate I think mine and the old ca 2100 is good

 

[Blacksabbath25]

CA-2010 is from 1977. Nothing cheap or cost cutting about that amp. A legend.

This is freakin porn.

she a beautiful looking amplifier the ca 2100 all that lovely wood switches uv meters that's heaven for me mate just wish I could find one that would be worth restoring

that review is a good review there's not much difference in sound between the two amplifiers

 

[Vladimir]

Recommended watch.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Recommended watch.

2 very big amps 2 run a very small speaker did you watch part 4 were he tested it running it looks like an old 8 track tape recording for the bell sound .