Amplifier Characteristics - How to Describe them.....

[admin_exported]

I am going next week to listen to a host of new equipment. Naim, Krell, Bryston, Audio Research & Sugden Amp&CD Combinations.

I currently own Musical Fidelity equipment and for my wifes sake - I hope I dont fall in love with another company as there will be a change around

I love my MF gear but I suppose you'd always like to check the other side of the grass.....

I listen to RnB, Rock, Pop & Jazz Music.

The MF KW gear is very dynamic & weighty - not exactly a neutral sound - but can rock the music.

But how would people describe the overall sounds from the other companies....

I remember What Hifi saying that the Naim equipment stirs your soul - but what does that mean? (I sense there could be many jokes along the way....

)

 

[Thaiman]

Naim = fast timing (known as PRaT)

Cyrus = Forward (not a bad thing)

Krell = Big but very sweet (Older Krell) or Clinical and dark (newer Krell)

Bryston = Muscle

Audio Research = "Oh my god, musicians are all in here!"... kinna sound (reference series)

Sugden = Warm but certainly not boring.

Mcintosh = Air, Decay and texture

 

[Anonymous]

thx thaiman - I shall make a note of that. Excellent.

Any other views.....

 

[idc]

Vinny7:

The MF KW gear is very dynamic & weighty - not exactly a neutral sound - but can rock the music.

I have not heard Musical Fidleity described as such before. I associate the MF sound with clarity, detail and neutrality so as to produce music as it was intended. Reviews tend to comment on a lack of bass weight, which MF admit themselves, knowing that their sound can intially lack dynamism. But their view is that is how the music should be. Other manufacturers add too much bass which robs detail, particularly in the lower midrange.

I am very envious of your listening list and out of all of them I would like to try out the Krell, having been lucky enough to hear a setup in full swing. But it would be only out of curiosity, as like you I am quite happy with Musical Fidelity.

 

[Thaiman]

If I have to descripe MF's house sound it would be "(very) HiFi"

I have own many Musical fidelity through out the range, on and off, for many years and while the earlier machine like the A3, A300, F22 can be descripe as a rocking machine, the later ones aren't! The KW (and 1008) range are absolutely superb but they never sound neutral to my ears (unless you are thinking neutral and smooth are the same).

 

[Anonymous]

idc:Vinny7:

The MF KW gear is very dynamic & weighty - not exactly a neutral sound - but can rock the music.

I have not heard Musical Fidleity described as such before. I associate the MF sound with clarity, detail and neutrality so as to produce music as it was intended. Reviews tend to comment on a lack of bass weight, which MF admit themselves, knowing that their sound can intially lack dynamism. But their view is that is how the music should be. Other manufacturers add too much bass which robs detail, particularly in the lower midrange.

I am very envious of your listening list and out of all of them I would like to try out the Krell, having been lucky enough to hear a setup in full swing. But it would be only out of curiosity, as like you I am quite happy with Musical Fidelity.

I would fully agree with you as you can see from my System evolution post - I have been with MF for quiet some time now. However it was only the KW500 & even more so the KW Pre/Power was there enough bass weight to physically shock you - and dynamics to make you honestly jump from your seat at times.

The way you described MF, lacking bass weight but great with detail & neutrality - that makes me think of the MF A3.2 & A5 Pre/Power, I used to own. Excellent for detail & neutrality - very clean sounding amplifiers. For me there was something lacking and thankfully the KW range was my dream come true..............so far

I shall post my results of the respective amplifiers when I get a chance to visit the store

 

[Anonymous]

Thaiman:
If I have to descripe MF's house sound it would be "(very) HiFi"

I have own many Musical fidelity through out the range, on and off, for many years and while the earlier machine like the A3, A300, F22 can be descripe as a rocking machine, the later ones aren't! The KW (and 1008) range are absolutely superb but they never sound neutral to my ears (unless you are thinking neutral and smooth are the same).

Thaiman - you've described it perfectly - I learnt the hard way.........I had to purchase almost the whole range to be finally happy

 

[idc]

Vinny7:[

.....The way you described MF, lacking bass weight, detail and neutrality......

Just to clarify what I said, only lacking bass weight, not detail nor neutrality. By bass weight I mean that I agree with the reviews that I have read which state MF is maybe not the best kit for those who like deep bass. But I see deep bass as overwhelming and not integrating well with the rest of the music.

 

[Anonymous]

idc:Vinny7:[

.....The way you described MF, lacking bass weight, detail and neutrality......

Just to clarify what I said, only lacking bass weight, not detail nor neutrality. By bass weight I mean that I agree with the reviews that I have read which state MF is maybe not the best kit for those who like deep bass. But I see deep bass as overwhelming and not integrating well with the rest of the music.

-

Sorry idc - I knew what you meant - I just typed it completely wrong

- have editted it now.

Have you had a chance to hear the MF KW kit?

What Hifi about the 550K superchargers quoted "Low frequencies are of an entirely different order: depth, tonal variation and decay are of the impeccable variety."

It only gets a lot better with the KW kit - never heard low frequencies sound musical & controlled - and the ability to very clearly hear different low frequencies tunes is amazing.

I think of the KW Kit almost like the Pioneer Kuro - the TV is so great because its black levels are second to none - it sets the foundation for all the other great things to follow - exactly like the MF KW Kit. - Just my opinion though...

 

[chebby]

Listening (and watching) for the last hour to Roy Orbison and friends 'Black & White night', all I can say about the amplifier/system/speaker/room/whatever characteristics are the things like 'Yeah!' and 'mmmm'.

It is not just Pace, Rhythm and Timing. That is too simplistic. Maybe I am just rubbish at sitting there and analysing and being detached.

The last time I sat and listened to an Oracle/Black Widow/Koetsu/Acoustic Research/Krell/speakers (forgotten now) set-up I was too busy trying to keep my jaw off the floor to analyse anything. The only system worth the memory - at the only hifi- show I ever went to some time back in the early 1980s. (Brighton if anyone was there and probably 1983 because Roy Gandy was there unoficially with a giant 'joke' painted, polystyrene tonearm mock-up to promote the - about to be announced - RB300 arm and take the mickey a bit out of other industry figures who were prominent at the show.)

Never heard MF amplifiers.

Heard Sugden quite a few times. Don't remember it being a warm sound but a b___y good one with a pair of the old MS Pageants and a Sugden FM tuner and a Manticore Mantra + RB300 arm. Usually playing excellent Reggae discs and John Peel programmes. The memory of that sound has prompted me to seriously consider Sugden a few times in the past. But I would need a mint pair of MS Pageants.

(Early-mid 1980s versions bult in Durford Mill by the proper Mordaunt Short).

 

[Thaiman]

Hifi's house sound knowledge is quite important when you are looking for an upgrade/system mathcing even if it seem like a generalization in the extreme!

 

[idc]

Vinny, yours is one the systems I would most like to listen to. I haven't heard the KW kit, but as Thiaman said knowing about a house sound is a very good indicator of what individual kit will sound like. I cannot imagine anything other getting serious base when adding a power amplifier. I have hopefully replicated that with my setup; the AKGs do deep bass according to What Hifi and the Fubar DAC adds dynamic according to Russ Andrews and that is what I have found. Since amp, DAC and headphones are all new and still running in, Iknow it will only get better.

I want to power up my modded X-CAN and try it again with the Grados to see how far the sound has advanced with the new kit. But I just keep finding one more album to listen to first, then another.......

 

[Anonymous]

Thaiman:
Mcintosh = Air, Decay and texture

Thaiman, I see that you are using the MA2275. Could you please explain why you described McIntosh like above? If everything falls into place I might be partnering this tube beauty with HL5. I'm considering used ones but seller says he could do with more muscle. For me, the power seemed more than adequate and sound was beautiful.

Cheers.

 

[Thaiman]

unleash_me:Thaiman:
Mcintosh = Air, Decay and texture

Thaiman, I see that you are using the MA2275. Could you please explain why you described McIntosh like above? If everything falls into place I might be partnering this tube beauty with HL5. I'm considering used ones but seller says he could do with more muscle. For me, the power seemed more than adequate and sound was beautiful.

Cheers.

The MA2275's best point is the realism potrait of instruments and human voice. I found the amp have plenty of dynamic and can slam with the very best solid state out there (I had many of muscle amps in the past!) - However if the slam is not on the recording, the MAC will sound just like that, give it something to bite to though and it will slam so convincingly that you will swear that the whole band are in the room with you. I know the Harbeth quite well and I can see the two working very well together, my ART emotion Signature is a match made in heaven and they have kinna similar house sound to the HL5.

I was trying to upgrade a little while ago and to be honest with you, it seem impossible unless going for something that cost twice or even three times the price (Acoustic reseach ref 3/110 combo come to mind). I do rate the amp very highly and yes, it have plenty of muscle.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you Thaiman. Really appreciate your prompt response!

If I may rack your brain a bit more... any advice on cables and interconnects? I have never been a believer of exotic cables or for that matter any particular brand of cables. But nevertheless I would like to check them out and see what the whole fuzz is all about. My current cdp is SA15S1

Cheers.

 

[Thaiman]

unleash_me:
Thank you Thaiman. Really appreciate your prompt response!

If I may rack your brain a bit more... any advice on cables and interconnects? I have never been a believer of exotic cables or for that matter any particular brand of cables. But nevertheless I would like to check them out and see what the whole fuzz is all about. My current cdp is SA15S1

Cheers.

I am using Vertex Silver Solfonn and Vertex Moncayo Silver cables. (Please, no comment about snake oil!)

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Thaiman,

I'm a complete noob in this. So please be gentle on my rather ridiculous question.

I have seen tubes glow in the dark and admittedly quite fascinated with the whole idea

Does your amp MA2275 glow in the dark in any particular color? Does it produce noticeable heat?

TIA

 

[Anonymous]

Thaiman:
Naim = fast timing (known as PRaT)

Cyrus = Forward (not a bad thing)

Krell = Big but very sweet (Older Krell) or Clinical and dark (newer Krell)

Bryston = Muscle

Audio Research = "Oh my god, musicians are all in here!"... kinna sound (reference series)

Sugden = Warm but certainly not boring.

Mcintosh = Air, Decay and texture

Very good Thaiman, excellent summary in a few words! I have Bryston and would add 'balance' to the 'muscle'. I find it can slam and drive when required, but also take it down when recordings call for it.

Love the description of Audio Research - I hanker after the Ref 3 preamp..

 

[Anonymous]

dishkyun:

Hello Thaiman,

I'm a complete noob in this. So please be gentle on my rather ridiculous question.

I
have seen tubes glow in the dark and admittedly quite fascinated with
the whole idea

Does your amp MA2275 glow in the dark in any
particular color? Does it produce noticeable heat?

TIA

O Thaiman, Where Art Thou?

 

[Anonymous]

Busy watching his glow in the dark amp?

 

[Thaiman]

Hi

Yeb, tubes do glow in the dark but Mcintosh have tubes sat at the back + big case to protect my fingers (well my children more like) not to get burn.

I like to listen to music in a pitch black enviroment so sometime growing tubes can be annoying (the big blue dials at the front can be turn off...thank god)

 

[Thaiman]

crimsondonkey:Thaiman:
Naim = fast timing (known as PRaT)

Cyrus = Forward (not a bad thing)

Krell = Big but very sweet (Older Krell) or Clinical and dark (newer Krell)

Bryston = Muscle

Audio Research = "Oh my god, musicians are all in here!"... kinna sound (reference series)

Sugden = Warm but certainly not boring.

Mcintosh = Air, Decay and texture

Very good Thaiman, excellent summary in a few words! I have Bryston and would add 'balance' to the 'muscle'. I find it can slam and drive when required, but also take it down when recordings call for it.

Love the description of Audio Research - I hanker after the Ref 3 preamp..

Thanks, WHF should gave the job to me when Mrs Osbourne left! (only kidding)

The ref 3 is superb but I just discover the holy amp in Vitus! If you ever have a chance to hear one, please do so, it really hit my spot.