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Question Integrated amplifier advice please

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mistercus

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
13
7
25
I'm little late to the party,

The Sudgen a21 sound like it will certainly have the sound you seem to be looking for and would certainly keep an eye out for one.

I own the a21sig but you may want the a21se as it has just a little more power than the standard and will work with a few more speakers but cost a little more.

But the bass is defo fatter and music has a flow that's hard to describe if you like naim you'll like Sugden similar virtues as a brand. But I much prefer the Sugden character. Get the speaker right and you'll be sonic heaven.

Pro arc is a known thing with Sugden.

hope that helps.
Thanks. I've a had a few recommendations for a Sugden now. Perhaps it could be the one!
 
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Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
5
18,545
I think the Sugden suggestion is a good shout, and I would definitely consider valves. ProAc's are known to work very well with hot bottles! Something from Icon Audio (who are based in Leicester and great to deal with) or Unison Research (if you want to push the budget a little) could work very well for you.
I have a 20 (ish) year old Unison Research S8 which never gives me any trouble and sounds sublime.
 

TotalVictim

Active member
Sep 11, 2020
17
8
25
Gee whiz. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your reasoning on DF is so incredibly flawed it is both mind-boggling and befuddling at once.
Take Hegel amplifiers for example, which I do not own. Their are generally known as excellent sounding units by owners/reviewers around the world and part of their defining characteristics is extremely high DF of about 2000 to 4000 and more.
Not one person ever has erroneously imagined that the Hegel amps have "lost their musical energy or whatever" due to high DF. Generally, it also well known that the Hegel DF exercises excellent control over the bass drivers of even difficult load speakers.
You may need to revise your theory on DF.

Ok, not worded as well on my part. I should have mentioned as well what you call the damping factor.
So adding more detail to what I have seen.
Your damping factor of 10 would cause a 10th of the signal/ musical energy to be lost.
Your damping factor of 100 causes 1/100th of the signal/ musical energy to be lost.

Taking into account the impedance of speakers can fluctuate to as low as possibly 3 ohm.
The Naim is right there at a damping factor of 10.
Whereas other amps I have seen would give a damping factor of 100.

Are we closer to agreeance now? Lol
The difference being you call it a damping factor. Whereas what I have seen it described as, is signal/ musical energy being lost.
 

James83

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2015
85
12
10,545
Gee whiz. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your reasoning on DF is so incredibly flawed it is both mind-boggling and befuddling at once.
Take Hegel amplifiers for example, which I do not own. Their are generally known as excellent sounding units by owners/reviewers around the world and part of their defining characteristics is extremely high DF of about 2000 to 4000 and more.
Not one person ever has erroneously imagined that the Hegel amps have "lost their musical energy or whatever" due to high DF. Generally, it also well known that the Hegel DF exercises excellent control over the bass drivers of even difficult load speakers.
You may need to revise your theory on DF.
I think you are sort of agreeing with me. Such a high 'damping factor' as some call it, supposedly means less energy being lost.
What I saw suggested that the lower the damping factor, the more energy lost.
 

tsaoandy

Active member
Apr 15, 2020
7
4
25
second to Sugden amp suggestion.
I have Naim Supernait 3 integrated driving a pair of Spnedor SP2/3R, Esoteric SA50 SACD/CD player. I only just got Naim recently which replaced my Moon 240i and before that I had Plinius 8200 mk2. Like you I listen to many types of music, but I am a violinist, for years I have been trying to sweeten the treble (Spendor's treble is not harsh at all) and yet I worry I might lose that organic and natural sound. However Spendor for me is laid back, if money is no object, Plinius and flagship Moon integrated can do powerful and organic, I simply can not afford to play the upgrade game with those brands.
Since you already know Naim sound, why not audition Supernait 3?
Naim Supernait 3: after running in for two months(around 400 hours), this amp plays loud! I rarely get to 9:00 in volume. In the first week before it settled down it was actually more dynamic and raw, now it's got smoother with good control in all the departments. I worried it will improve the dynamics but treble will be too hot, but Classical music actually sounds pretty smooth. The only thing is soundstage Plinius is definitely better. Sound quality is really good, it makes Spotify sounds better(I have tried Spotify, tidal and Qobuz)

So some of amps that come to my mind
Yamaha A S3200 or AS3000
Luxman
Accuphase
Sugden
Naim
Hegel
Moon
Pass

If the a very good "Hi-Fi" sound is what you are after then there are a lot amps out there that do it. But there are brands that go a little extra, not just clear and detail sound, for example, some amps have "soul" especially if (you are musician) you know the sound of certain instruments very well, probably quite picky about the timbre, see if you could audition Luxman, Sugden or Yamaha. I heard Accuphase as well, amazing amp but it's really expensive but it could be your end game amp.
Good luck
 

mistercus

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
13
7
25
second to Sugden amp suggestion.
I have Naim Supernait 3 integrated driving a pair of Spnedor SP2/3R, Esoteric SA50 SACD/CD player. I only just got Naim recently which replaced my Moon 240i and before that I had Plinius 8200 mk2. Like you I listen to many types of music, but I am a violinist, for years I have been trying to sweeten the treble (Spendor's treble is not harsh at all) and yet I worry I might lose that organic and natural sound. However Spendor for me is laid back, if money is no object, Plinius and flagship Moon integrated can do powerful and organic, I simply can not afford to play the upgrade game with those brands.
Since you already know Naim sound, why not audition Supernait 3?
Naim Supernait 3: after running in for two months(around 400 hours), this amp plays loud! I rarely get to 9:00 in volume. In the first week before it settled down it was actually more dynamic and raw, now it's got smoother with good control in all the departments. I worried it will improve the dynamics but treble will be too hot, but Classical music actually sounds pretty smooth. The only thing is soundstage Plinius is definitely better. Sound quality is really good, it makes Spotify sounds better(I have tried Spotify, tidal and Qobuz)

So some of amps that come to my mind
Yamaha A S3200 or AS3000
Luxman
Accuphase
Sugden
Naim
Hegel
Moon
Pass

If the a very good "Hi-Fi" sound is what you are after then there are a lot amps out there that do it. But there are brands that go a little extra, not just clear and detail sound, for example, some amps have "soul" especially if (you are musician) you know the sound of certain instruments very well, probably quite picky about the timbre, see if you could audition Luxman, Sugden or Yamaha. I heard Accuphase as well, amazing amp but it's really expensive but it could be your end game amp.
Good luck
Thanks so much for your message, really appreciate it. Since my first question a few weeks back, I have spent a long time with my Naim Nait XS and both new speakers, the Proac Studio 130 and Spendor SP1. I thought the Spendors would be the grail of speakers for me but I'm actually really loving the sound of the Naim and Proacs. So much that I've stopped my quest for a new amp.

I've always wanted the Spendors. They look so good, sound amazing with vocals like everyone says, are lovely and clear, but I find they lack the weight and bass of the Proacs, something I think you definitely miss with music with a few instruments in to really get into the music. Drums though the Proacs have a most satisfying solidness and snap to the snare drum which really draws you in and feeling the music. The vocals are not quite as good as the Spendors but they are still great.

So at the moment I'm keeping the Proacs and am happy with the Naim. I've stopped skipping songs and am spending many hours listening to albums and exploring new music.

I'm sure I will at some point fancy a change. Perhaps I'll start saving for a Supernait 3 and a pair of Proac Responses. If these would take the sound I get from my current mini Naim and Proacs and turn it up to 11 then I would love to hear that!

Have a great weekend.
 
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