Amp to tame bright system

[admin_exported]

I'm currently using KEF XQ20 speakers with a Roksan Kandy L3 amp. Front-end is an OPPO into a DAC Magic. The Roksan is away being fixed (well-documented potentiometer problem) but it will be going on fleaBay upon return, so I'd welcome suggestions for a new amp.

Generally I like the sound I get from this set-up, but the balance is certainly lean and tilted towards the treble. It's not a harsh brightness, and I don't want to tone it down as such, but I definitely don't want to make it any brighter! I mainly listen to jazz, ambient, and metal, and my listening sessions are usually quite long, so a warmer and softer presentation will probably be OK with the peppy KEF speakers.

Ideally I'd like to change my front-end to match the amp at some point, so was thinking of combinations like:

Nait XS (and CD5i later)

Denon PMA1500AE (matching spinner later)

CA 840Av2 (and 840C later)

Arcam FMJ38 (and 17 or 37 player later)

Something from NAD?

Roksan K2 is vetoed on aesthetic grounds! and don't think Cyrus is going to give me what I want either.

Any thoughts?

 

[chebby]

You are trying to fix a bright system but I fear you may be selling the wrong component to cure this.

Instead, I would think about the speakers first. To quote a UK hifi magazine review of the KEF XQ20's (from HFC)...

"While there's no denying that this speaker is significantly brighter
than average and the top end does immediately draw attention to itself,
happily the top end is also pretty clean and well integrated.

Although
there is a mild tendency to emphasise sibilants, the bonus is that it
does ensure speech sounds open, clear and intelligible even at the very
lowest of listening levels. The corresponding disadvantage being a
tendency to become aggressive if the volume is turned up high."

Maybe you need a slightly more 'neutral' speaker like the Harbeth P3ESR or give the Spendor SA1's a try. (Trying to think of speakers of similar size and budget to your KEFs)

If you are going to change the amp first then I would suggest the Nait XS from your choices.

From my own experience of Arcam A38 & CD17 (at a dealer demo with Focal 714s) I think this option would just be throwing a 'muffler' over the KEFs brightness.

I think an amp that brings everything else into better musical perspective would work better than a... "bright + warm = ok" approach.

In other words, a 'bass light/treble bright' system is better fixed with an amp that does bass (timing) and mids (presence) better, rather than one that just 'smoothes over' the problem with a big soft blanket.

In your position and with your tastes in music - if I had the funds - I would go for the Nait XS and different speakers like Harbeth P3ESR or Spendor SA1's as I mentioned before.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Chebby, you've called out the elephant in the room here! The speakers are the issue, but they do so much I like in terms of bass detail, clarity and imaging (the best I've personally heard) that I want to tinker elsewhere first to see if I can brings things into better balance first. Also, the KEFs look great, which makes them "acceptable" in our house!

I heard the KEFs on the end of a Supernait and CDX2 - sounded superb, and sort of "rounded off" in the treble. I thought it might be down to the low damping factor Naim amps seem to have, giving a richer bass, or perhaps the band-width limiting also part of the Naim style. That's what got me thinking about the Nait XS. I'd be looking for a ex-demo in the old finish, so it would match the CD5i finish and save me some cash. If that doesn't quite do the job, at least I've got a good platform for a speaker change, right!?

Thanks again.

 

[matthewpiano]

I'd tread carefully, as Chebby suggests. You might be best taking your speakers to your dealer and trying them with different combinations, but also taking your amp and trying it with different speakers.

The Denon 1500AE is a good amp in many ways but I found it often sounded like the tone controls were set to +1 in the treble and bass, even with them switched out. Longer sessions resulted in headaches. I also think, whilst it was good value at the £500 I paid when I bought it, at more recent prices it is outclassed.

The Naim kit is superb. I was blown away by a CD5i playing through an olive period pre/power the other day (but it was outside my budget). I personally believe that at circa £800 per box you would struggle to beat the CD5i/Nait 5i and I would imagine the XS is another step up again.

If you want an altogether bigger-boned sound I would think the NAD C375 would be worth a go, or even the C355, but I haven't heard either of these (just going off past experience of NAD amps). My only concern would be about buying a NAD CD player later on - they seem to be suffering from quality control/reliability problems at present.

 

[jaxwired]

I second the NAD C375bee. This amp got a mediocre review from WHF (who usually gets it right, but not this time), but several other respected publications have raved about it. I have listened to it a lot and it is one of the best values in amps out there even at 1000 pounds. Sam Tellig of stereophile (who has been reviewing high end audio for decades) said it competes with the very best solid state amps and performs way, way above it's price category. I totally agree. And this amp does bass like very few others. The C375bee sounds nothing like the less expensive NAD amps. Much more neutral and natural. I highly recommend you audition it if possible with your speakers. It will very likely fix your complaint with the KEFs.

BTW, I also agree, stay away from the NAD CDPs.

 

[drummerman]

symbolicexchange:
Thanks Chebby, you've called out the elephant in the room here! The speakers are the issue, but they do so much I like in terms of bass detail, clarity and imaging (the best I've personally heard) that I want to tinker elsewhere first to see if I can brings things into better balance first. Also, the KEFs look great, which makes them "acceptable" in our house!

I heard the KEFs on the end of a Supernait and CDX2 - sounded superb, and sort of "rounded off" in the treble. I thought it might be down to the low damping factor Naim amps seem to have, giving a richer bass, or perhaps the band-width limiting also part of the Naim style. That's what got me thinking about the Nait XS. I'd be looking for a ex-demo in the old finish, so it would match the CD5i finish and save me some cash. If that doesn't quite do the job, at least I've got a good platform for a speaker change, right!?

Thanks again.

I'm with you there. Personally I like Kef's balance, not many on this forum seem to agree. Same token, Naim's XS is a very nice product but when used with the CD5i, you will not get anywhere near the benefit of it's many talents. The difference between this and the next player up the range is quite significant in cdp terms and imo, an absolute necessity when considering that amplifier. It's been a little while since I've used these two but they are anything but bright. If anything, treble seemed slightly rolled off. I could imagine it may work very well with your nice Kef's.

 

[chebby]

WHF forum member 'True Blue' is getting excellent mileage from a Nait XS and Rega Saturn CD player.

The Saturn used to be £1270 but Rega dropped the official price to £898. (About the same as a Naim CD5i now.) And the Saturn can be ordered in black to help it match better aesthetically.

It's another option worth considering. (A lot of Naim dealers also stock Rega, so hearing them together should not be a problem.)

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone, for your comments and advice. I'm definitely going to explore the Nait XS as based on what I heard with the Supernait CDX2 demo (as well as all the great reviews, and recommendations) it could be just the thing - or at least a good place to start!

Cheers!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'd look at either the Quad pre/power range, or the Arcam amplifiers. The Arcam's work extremely well with the KEF's, which are by no means bright. They're smoother and far better balanced than the previous XQ series, with a little more low end to warm things up. I'd be questioning the KEF/Roksan pairing - I don't think that's ever been a combination that has been purchased in store after lengthy demos.

The Naims also work well.