Am I going wrong somewhere? Your advice and views, please.

[Craig M.]

So you think, for example, that Yamaha actives sound the same as Adams and Genelec?

If you read the pro and dj forums, you'll find that many find certain brands fatiguing. The fact a speaker is active doesn't automatically mean it will sound good.

i think you'll find i've written nothing remotely like that. but listening to good, well designed ones, and so far they've all been pretty non-fatigueing to me.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

But you can say exactly the same for passives, too.

 

[Craig M.]

not to the same extent, ime. the maggies look interesting though, how's the bass? are they a sod to position?

 

[steve_1979]

Prove it! I'll back my maggies against your AVIs any day

I did say a good active speaker sounds better than any passive speaker and amp combo for the same price. Magnepan's cost around £6000 without an amp.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing electrostatic speakers but I've read that they can sound very good apart from having a lack of bass.

 

[the record spot]

Prove it! I'll back my maggies against your AVIs any day

Genelec 8040As, quite comfortably non-fatiguing.

The thing that gets me is, why on earth should accuracy be an issue? "Accuracy" isn't unlistenable, it's not "cold" and it's not "clinical". Are you saying that you want inaccurate? Or is it just that the "blending" that goes on with separates to get the "sound" that we want from the gear that best suits us is all part of the fun. That bit I can understand, the rest, well, I'm not so sure.

Personally, I couldn't give two hoots what speaker design I'm listening to, but I will say this; barring Mission's 75 series, the only speaker that's made me sit up and take notice came out of Genelec's stable - I've heard several of their's but the 8040A, which clock in at around £1200 a pair, were breathtaking. And it's hard to say what the breathtaking bit was, but if you want effortless, realistic, enjoyable, smile-inducing music making, these ought to be on your shortlist. They just did everything right.

 

[the record spot]

But you can say exactly the same for passives, too.

Exactly, some are good, some less so. It applies across the board. Probably throughout most things in general, outwith hifi too!

 

[the record spot]

Prove it! I'll back my maggies against your AVIs any day

I did say a good active speaker sounds better than any passive speaker and amp combo for the same price. Magnepan's cost around £6000 without an amp.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing electrostatic speakers but I've read that they can sound very good apart from having a lack of bass.

Right enough Steve, although our Antipodean friend might not end up having the last lemony snicker (sorry...!), given that by all accounts, plenty of folk have chucked substantially pricier gear to get a pair of ADM 9.1s in their time, so AL might perhaps be careful what he wishes for!

 

[the record spot]

As a former Maggie owner, I'd like to see how that one turns out!

I wouldn't have thought this would be such a mismatch, all things considered...it's more down to a personal preference in the end.

 

[chebby]

I did say a good active speaker sounds better than any passive speaker and amp combo for the same price. Magnepan's cost around £6000 without an amp.

Of those models available in the UK, they start at £1495 for the Magneplanar MG12s.

In the USA the Magneplanar MMGs are available direct from the manufacturer for $599

I've never had the pleasure of hearing electrostatic speakers but I've read that they can sound very good apart from having a lack of bass.

The MG12s are quoted as having bass extension down to 45Hz (+/- 3dB) which seems quite respectable. The MMGs have 50Hz (+/- 3dB) which is also very good.

 

[Anonymous]

I've heard quite a few active speakers and most have been pretty easy to listen to, Dynaudio, AVI, Adam and Mackie. However i personally found Genelic and Yamaha monitors to be a little too bright.

I don't think that a speaker being passive or active is any indicator of it being fatiguing or not, and agree that there's no reason why an accurate speaker should be fatiguing, in fact in my experience and for my taste, accuracy is a plus point.

 

[the record spot]

Hey flymo, welcome to the forums, interesting you think the Yammies and the Gennies are brighter; my exposure to the brands are the HS50 Yammies and the aforementioned Gennies were well balanced, the former the more neutral of the two, the latter the more domestic audio friendly. Horses for courses and all that!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I use ATC SCM100ASL Professional monitors which are mostly driven by the SCA2 Reference pre amplifier and i've yet to hear a passive system better this

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[shropshire lad]

I use ATC SCM100ASL Professional monitors which are mostly driven by the SCA2 Reference pre amplifier and i've yet to hear a passive system better this

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

At the best part of £14,000 retail for that little lot , I suspect that is a bit more than Atticus was thinking of spending !

Still, I wouldn't mind hearing them for myself someday ,

Nick

 

[Frank Harvey]

As mentioned before, active is no guarantee of quality, and that's just as true for passive. A well designed speaker is a well designed speaker, regardless of it's type. Different studios use different active loudspeakers, just as end users do at home, so active manufacturers are just as guilty as passive ones for introducing their own sound, either on purpose or just through budget constraints.

There has been many criticisms of active brands as well as praise (even supposedly well regarded ones), so it just goes to show nothing is perfect. It's either choosing the strengths you require, or choosing the compromise you can live with.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Another recommendation here to check out actives. I heard these :

side by side:

atc scm 50 aslt

atc scm 100 aslt

any of these highly recommeded, 100s having a bit deeper bass

side by side:

avi adm9T

dynaudio 110a

adam artist 3

I picked avis from these, although the adams we excelllent, too (and very compact). the dynaudios were also great but a bit boomier than the other two.

For me a perfect system today is:

music stored on a computer or nas

accessed and played via an inexpensive but excellent streamer (e.g. SB Touch) with a bonus control from ipad etc

and then to active speakers. a sub optional.

Convenient, low box count, excellent sound.

 

[steve_1979]

Prove it! I'll back my maggies against your AVIs any day

My AVI speakers use passive crossovers BTW. But they are very good and at just £900 for the whole system including a DAC, amps and subwoofer I bet they would win the 'Pepsi Challenge' against any other complete system at that price.

I did say a good active speaker sounds better than any passive speaker and amp combo for the same price. Magnepan's cost around £6000 without an amp.

Of those models available in the UK, they start at £1495 for the Magneplanar MG12s.

In the USA the Magneplanar MMGs are available direct from the manufacturer for $599

I stand corrected there. I thought that all Magnepan's were really expensive, I didn't realise that they make cheap ones too. Still, at £1500 plus another £1500 for a powerful amp they're in the same price bracket as the new £3000 AVI ADM40 active speakers. Now that would be an interesting comparison.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing electrostatic speakers but I've read that they can sound very good apart from having a lack of bass.

The MG12s are quoted as having bass extension down to 45Hz (+/- 3dB) which seems quite respectable. The MMGs have 50Hz (+/- 3dB) which is also very good.

Yes your right there too chebby, -3dB @ 45Hz is quite respectable. But every electrostatic speaker review I've read says that the bass isn't as good as comparable conventional speakers. Still, I've never actually heard any myself so this is pure hearsay based on magazine reviews.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes your right there too chebby, -3dB @ 45Hz is quite respectable. But every electrostatic speaker review I've read says that the bass isn't as good as comparable conventional speakers. Still, I've never actually heard any myself so this is pure hearsay based on magazine reviews.

Maggies aren't electrostatics, though they are a first cousin....I started a thread on them (electrostatics) a while back, and good info came to light.

 

[AEJim]

Great post Atticus!

I think it highlights one of the real issues with Hi-Fi - the focus on equipment over the music. Over the years it's easy to get wrapped up in the technicalities and lose sight of what got you into the hobby in the first place.

Much like you I started out with a simple system and made many upgrades, going through every brand under the sun and eventually I realised I was more concerned with the gear than how well it reproduced music, how much I actually enjoyed it.

Nowadays I've become very used to hearing through the equipment, I know within seconds if I'm going to like a system or not - hours of listening isn't necessary in my view - it just gives you time to adjust to things that may not be right (to you) and accept them rather than finding something more suited to you in the first place.

When designing speakers I know from the first couple of bars what I need to know, will then grab a couple of familiar pieces of music which highlight those particular strengths or weaknesses, play them to confirm and I'm done. The engineer hates it but I've found I rarely make a bad judgement in doing so. If I have to listen to more tracks to find a fault then we're usually at the point I'd consider the speaker to be about right - if I'm just listening because I'm enjoying it we're onto a winner!

We have plenty of people in the office who aren't into Hi-Fi, and also a few accomplished musicians (though our Warehouse drummer's version of "music" is a stretch - have a listen to him play on "I Defy's" version of "Dead For Good" on Youtube to hear what I mean!) - I get them all to listen to new product and most of them pick up on any problem areas straight away, and then say "but what do I know?". This really annoys me - you know as much as anyone else, what you hear is as correct as any "expert's" opinion!

For what it's worth I think I know the problem you're highlighting with your system, it's lacking musicality, when everything is right you'll stop having to listen for fine detail, it'll just be there at the right level to listen to or ignore as you see fit. I think electrostatics may well be a good option - I heard the Quad ESL's at vegas a couple of years back and still think they beat most other systems on display there, they were just natural sounding and easy to listen to (which can sometimes be taken as a criticism in Hi-Fi for some reason!) I wouldn't worry too much about the bass, while it wouldn't have the impact of a big cone driver it does play a tune very well.

My old Hi-fi all resides in the office nowadays, I take home bits and pieces to try out with new product and the systems I find work best for me in my house are rarely the ones that get 5 Stars in reviews - The Compact 1 + Naim UnitiQute that we used at the Bristol Show worked perfectly in my smallish listening room (people seemed to love it at the show too!) so that's what I listen to at home now. I've got access to anything up to our old AE5's which are awesome speakers but just wouldn't work, 10 years ago I'd have given my right arm to get something like that at home - how times change!

I hope you finally find what you're looking for one day, trust your own ears!

Jim.

 

[steve_1979]

Maggies aren't electrostatics, though they are a first cousin....I started a thread on them (electrostatics) a while back, and good info came to light.

Cheers Cno. An interesting read.

www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/electrostatics-brilliant-answer-or-impractical-solution

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yes your right there too chebby, -3dB @ 45Hz is quite respectable. But every electrostatic speaker review I've read says that the bass isn't as good as comparable conventional speakers. Still, I've never actually heard any myself so this is pure hearsay based on magazine reviews.

Maggies aren't electrostatics, though they are a first cousin....I started a thread on them (electrostatics) a while back, and good info came to light.

First cousin in the sense of not being remotely related? Compare the wikipedia definition of electrostatic speakers and the info on the magnepan site.

Unless being flat qualifies them as related in some way ?

 

[CnoEvil]

First cousin in the sense of not being remotely related? Compare the wikipedia definition of electrostatic speakers and the info on the magnepan site.

Unless being flat qualifies them as related in some way ?

First cousin in the sense of appealing to the same crowd, and sounding closer to an electrostatic than a conventional box speaker.

 

[CnoEvil]

Would you prefer, "first cousin once removed".

 

[John Duncan]

 

[altruistic.lemon]

First cousin in the sense of not being remotely related? Compare the wikipedia definition of electrostatic speakers and the info on the magnepan site.

Unless being flat qualifies them as related in some way ?

First cousin in the sense of appealing to the same crowd, and sounding closer to an electrostatic than a conventional box speaker.

Technically speaking is what I meant. All speakers are related in the sense that push air and appeal to the same crowd, i.e. those who want to listen to music, radio etc etc.

 

[CnoEvil]

]Technically speaking is what I meant. All speakers are related in the sense that push air and appeal to the same crowd, i.e. those who want to listen to music, radio etc etc.

Technically speaking, the concept is similar to Electrostatics, as they both produce sound by a moving membrane, and are dipole designs. The sound produced is free from boxy coloration in both types ie. cousins.