How long should hi-fi equipment last? I have an Arcam 8 CD player with audiolab 8000S and 8000SX amp with Mission Freedom 72 speakers for 12 years now. I feel the quality of sound is not as good as it was a number of years ago. Is it possible the quality of the system, particularly the CD player is just ageing? Of course, it could be just my ears... Any thoughts, opinions appreciated.
Ageing hi-fi equipment?
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Cd player laser's wear out over time. Some last years, others dont. So although yours is still working it probably isn't at its best.
Also capacitors have a sell by date of sorts but can be replaced by somebody who knows electronics. Amplifiers power supply's in particular would need them replacing after a number of years to maintain top performance from the amp.
Speakers can last forever but drive units can rot or sag, depending on material they are made from
Also capacitors have a sell by date of sorts but can be replaced by somebody who knows electronics. Amplifiers power supply's in particular would need them replacing after a number of years to maintain top performance from the amp.
Speakers can last forever but drive units can rot or sag, depending on material they are made from
my amp is 30yrs old ... was still working fine but had it serviced/recapped ...
suppose it depends on how much the item is used ... I have friends who have expensive hifi systems and if they use it twice a month, that is a lot
suppose it depends on how much the item is used ... I have friends who have expensive hifi systems and if they use it twice a month, that is a lot
plastic penguin
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JNP:How long should hi-fi equipment last? I have an Arcam 8 CD player with audiolab 8000S and 8000SX amp with Mission Freedom 72 speakers for 12 years now. I feel the quality of sound is not as good as it was a number of years ago. Is it possible the quality of the system, particularly the CD player is just ageing? Of course, it could be just my ears... Any thoughts, opinions appreciated.
It's a tricky question in some ways - I still use a thirty something year old Tuner in my system and it's terrific.
I happen to believe, based on my old system, generally speaking, the older stuff is slightly richer sounding. But, there isn't any component in my current system that is available new.
New stuff is generally more detailed and transparent, whereas older gear is more earthy. This conclusion is purely based on my old codgers I have in the loft. Others may have, and probably will have, a different take on this.
Hi-fi is 'orribily subjective.....
TAKE TWO:
Sorry had to dash off to find another towel. The OH is giving the little'un a shower.
Aaaanyway, when it comes to newer amps, cdp's etc what you will get is a very different sound as opposed to a better sound. If you audition the newer budget systems like Marantz, Nad, Rotel you will probably hear a much crisper, precise sound. Whether that sort of thing "does it for you" only your ears will decide. But it may take some time to adjust to the newer incarnations.
It's a tricky question in some ways - I still use a thirty something year old Tuner in my system and it's terrific.
I happen to believe, based on my old system, generally speaking, the older stuff is slightly richer sounding. But, there isn't any component in my current system that is available new.
New stuff is generally more detailed and transparent, whereas older gear is more earthy. This conclusion is purely based on my old codgers I have in the loft. Others may have, and probably will have, a different take on this.
Hi-fi is 'orribily subjective.....
TAKE TWO:
Sorry had to dash off to find another towel. The OH is giving the little'un a shower.
Aaaanyway, when it comes to newer amps, cdp's etc what you will get is a very different sound as opposed to a better sound. If you audition the newer budget systems like Marantz, Nad, Rotel you will probably hear a much crisper, precise sound. Whether that sort of thing "does it for you" only your ears will decide. But it may take some time to adjust to the newer incarnations.
All,
Thank you for your comments - they are useful. i just feel the sound is more within the speakers rather than coming out and filling the room with a better sound stage.. I always considered the Audiolab - Mission combination to be quite clinical but now appears to be more muffled. I will look at a service for the amp and power combination.
John.
Thank you for your comments - they are useful. i just feel the sound is more within the speakers rather than coming out and filling the room with a better sound stage.. I always considered the Audiolab - Mission combination to be quite clinical but now appears to be more muffled. I will look at a service for the amp and power combination.
John.
JNP:
All,
Thank you for your comments - they are useful. i just feel the sound is more within the speakers rather than coming out and filling the room with a better sound stage.. I always considered the Audiolab - Mission combination to be quite clinical but now appears to be more muffled. I will look at a service for the amp and power combination.
John.
before spending on a service for the amp, have the speakers checked out ... also check all your connections/cables especially the speaker cables
All,
Thank you for your comments - they are useful. i just feel the sound is more within the speakers rather than coming out and filling the room with a better sound stage.. I always considered the Audiolab - Mission combination to be quite clinical but now appears to be more muffled. I will look at a service for the amp and power combination.
John.
before spending on a service for the amp, have the speakers checked out ... also check all your connections/cables especially the speaker cables
Suspect those are the Mission 752 Freedoms as opposed to the 72? Nothing wrong with 'em, check the connections, etc, but unless you've been throwing them out the window, don't lose too much sleep over their capabilities. A very fine floorstander.
To answer your earlier query, nothing wrong with older kit and well maintained, it will last for years. My latest amp is at least 30 years old, likely about 33, and sounds magnificent (albeit it's still going through the "familiarisation" period we all go through with new kit). My speakers are about 15 years old and the CDP is about 18 months or so.
Together they're doing absolutely fine, and there's a great balance and tonal quality to the system I had hoped I would achieve when I bought the amp. Look after it and it'll reap rewards.
To answer your query, the Arcam would be my pick for a "weak" link, fine CDP though it is. Have you considered adding a DAC and using the Arcam as a transport? Have you tried repositioning your speakers, playing around with their layout? Might just be you need to try some of the simpler stuff out before splashing out on the major upgrades. Worth a shot anyway.
To answer your earlier query, nothing wrong with older kit and well maintained, it will last for years. My latest amp is at least 30 years old, likely about 33, and sounds magnificent (albeit it's still going through the "familiarisation" period we all go through with new kit). My speakers are about 15 years old and the CDP is about 18 months or so.
Together they're doing absolutely fine, and there's a great balance and tonal quality to the system I had hoped I would achieve when I bought the amp. Look after it and it'll reap rewards.
To answer your query, the Arcam would be my pick for a "weak" link, fine CDP though it is. Have you considered adding a DAC and using the Arcam as a transport? Have you tried repositioning your speakers, playing around with their layout? Might just be you need to try some of the simpler stuff out before splashing out on the major upgrades. Worth a shot anyway.
Frank Harvey
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JNP:How long should hi-fi equipment last? I have an Arcam 8 CD player with audiolab 8000S and 8000SX amp with Mission Freedom 72 speakers for 12 years now. I feel the quality of sound is not as good as it was a number of years ago. Is it possible the quality of the system, particularly the CD player is just ageing? Of course, it could be just my ears... Any thoughts, opinions appreciated.
If you change anything, I'd look at the CD and speakers, the amps are fine and will last you a little longer. Plus, you'd probably have to spend about £2k for a worthwhile improvement on those.
If you change anything, I'd look at the CD and speakers, the amps are fine and will last you a little longer. Plus, you'd probably have to spend about £2k for a worthwhile improvement on those.
JNP:How long should hi-fi equipment last? I have an Arcam 8 CD player with audiolab 8000S and 8000SX amp with Mission Freedom 72 speakers for 12 years now. I feel the quality of sound is not as good as it was a number of years ago. Is it possible the quality of the system, particularly the CD player is just ageing? Of course, it could be just my ears... Any thoughts, opinions appreciated.
I'm not familiar with the speakers so don't know how good they are. From an age perspective though speakers can sounds amazing 20 or 30 years on - as long as the cones are in good condition and haven't come loose. My current speakers were bought last year s/h 13 years old.
I'm not familiar with the speakers so don't know how good they are. From an age perspective though speakers can sounds amazing 20 or 30 years on - as long as the cones are in good condition and haven't come loose. My current speakers were bought last year s/h 13 years old.
FrankHarveyHiFi:
JNP:How long should hi-fi equipment last? I have an Arcam 8 CD player with audiolab 8000S and 8000SX amp with Mission Freedom 72 speakers for 12 years now. I feel the quality of sound is not as good as it was a number of years ago. Is it possible the quality of the system, particularly the CD player is just ageing? Of course, it could be just my ears... Any thoughts, opinions appreciated.
If you change anything, I'd look at the CD and speakers, the amps are fine and will last you a little longer. Plus, you'd probably have to spend about £2k for a worthwhile improvement on those.
Just out of interest what would you recommend to improve the Missions David - I'm thinking in the £600 upwards bracket incidentally, given the 752 Freedoms (which I think are what the OP refers to) were a highly rated and well reviewed £650 design? Would the OP need to spend as much?
JNP:How long should hi-fi equipment last? I have an Arcam 8 CD player with audiolab 8000S and 8000SX amp with Mission Freedom 72 speakers for 12 years now. I feel the quality of sound is not as good as it was a number of years ago. Is it possible the quality of the system, particularly the CD player is just ageing? Of course, it could be just my ears... Any thoughts, opinions appreciated.
If you change anything, I'd look at the CD and speakers, the amps are fine and will last you a little longer. Plus, you'd probably have to spend about £2k for a worthwhile improvement on those.
Just out of interest what would you recommend to improve the Missions David - I'm thinking in the £600 upwards bracket incidentally, given the 752 Freedoms (which I think are what the OP refers to) were a highly rated and well reviewed £650 design? Would the OP need to spend as much?
Frank Harvey
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Obviously it'll be down to the OP what he thinks are good enough to succeed his, and likewise what you think will are good enough to succeed yours, but from a personal point of view, I was never that keen on the 752's. Nowadays, there's not many decent £600 floorstanders around. I'd say you have to start with the Monitor Audio RX6's, Rega RS5's, KEF iQ70's. I'm not saying they would be better, just that'd be a starting point. Because I think the ATC SCM11's are probably the best sounding all round speaker below £1k, I'd fancy my chances that they'd do the trick, but they'd need a little more grunt than than the 752's demand.
I'm guessing you'd have to look at the £1k mark, or even a little more to replace them. I f I call correctly, they were around £500 when new, and back then you could get a good floorstander for £300, which are now roughly equivalent to what we have at £600/700.
As Rob mentions, a decently designed speaker stays the course, and even a 30 year old design can still be competitive today. Tajke the KEF Reference 104/2, the Jim Rogers JR149, various BBC based monitors, Quad electrostatics etc. Weirdly, all but the Quads are designed around KEF drivers.....that says something about KEF's past dominance and influence on the market in general.
I'm guessing you'd have to look at the £1k mark, or even a little more to replace them. I f I call correctly, they were around £500 when new, and back then you could get a good floorstander for £300, which are now roughly equivalent to what we have at £600/700.
As Rob mentions, a decently designed speaker stays the course, and even a 30 year old design can still be competitive today. Tajke the KEF Reference 104/2, the Jim Rogers JR149, various BBC based monitors, Quad electrostatics etc. Weirdly, all but the Quads are designed around KEF drivers.....that says something about KEF's past dominance and influence on the market in general.
I had a pair of the standard 752s and I think they were £450 or £500 (plus I paid an extra £50 or £100 for a rosewood finish).
The speakers I changed them for were from the same era - Ruark Crusader IIs (three-way design, tri-amp/wirable, bigger cabinet) which were about £1500 new back then. Unfair of me to compare the two as I also swapped amplifier brands (Naim to NVA) and from single-amping to bi-amping at the same time.
Rob
The speakers I changed them for were from the same era - Ruark Crusader IIs (three-way design, tri-amp/wirable, bigger cabinet) which were about £1500 new back then. Unfair of me to compare the two as I also swapped amplifier brands (Naim to NVA) and from single-amping to bi-amping at the same time.
Rob
The 752s originally came in at £500 speakers, with a premium to pay for the rosewood finish, the standard being black ash. Not sure if you paid more for the maple (or whatever it was) finish, but the rosewood one was pretty pricey. The 752 Freedom came in a year or so later and was about £600. I picked mine up a little over a year ago and can't rate them highly enough.
Lovely open quality to them, detail and good imaging and very 3D with the right gear I think. I reckon you're right to suggest £1k to top them, though alternatives can be had below that which will be different, but not necessarily be better.
I think I was more interested in the "get rid of the CDP and speakers" which I could understand in the former to some extent, but not the latter! Partnered with the right kit and a bit of power to spare in the amp and they are a very rewarding listen. So this really comes down to David not liking them much but not elaborating on why (for the OP's benefit) when he suggests changing them. Cheeky!!
Lovely open quality to them, detail and good imaging and very 3D with the right gear I think. I reckon you're right to suggest £1k to top them, though alternatives can be had below that which will be different, but not necessarily be better.
I think I was more interested in the "get rid of the CDP and speakers" which I could understand in the former to some extent, but not the latter! Partnered with the right kit and a bit of power to spare in the amp and they are a very rewarding listen. So this really comes down to David not liking them much but not elaborating on why (for the OP's benefit) when he suggests changing them. Cheeky!!
my old B&W dm2's (hand built 3 way transmissions) for £50 off ebay will take a lot of beating ... IMHO, dont think ther are any brand new speakers up to £1,5k that will even come close ... just my opinion based on what I have heard so far
even better are IMF TLS 80's (4 way transmissions which can be bought for approx £600 on ebay) ... one of the best speakers I have ever heard, but needs a decent 100W+ amp to really shine
even better are IMF TLS 80's (4 way transmissions which can be bought for approx £600 on ebay) ... one of the best speakers I have ever heard, but needs a decent 100W+ amp to really shine
On the basis of many positive reviews/forum comments and my experience with the Crusader IIs, I suspect one of the best 'bang for buck' second-hand floorstanders are the Ruark Talisman IIs which go for £100-£150 pretty frequently.
plastic penguin:
Sorry had to dash off to find another towel. The OH is giving the little'un a shower.
Oxymoron?
Sorry had to dash off to find another towel. The OH is giving the little'un a shower.
Oxymoron?
Again, thanks for all the comments and opinions. I've always felt the CD player or the speakers were the weaker link. I get the feeling the amp combo is not working too hard.. I have a Tag DAC 20 which is normally in the system but appears to have some mains hum on the right channel and is off for repair..When this was working, the system appeared sharper with a greater definition and seperation..
Frank Harvey
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- Jun 27, 2008
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the record spot:So this really comes down to David not liking them much but not elaborating on why (for the OP's benefit) when he suggests changing them. Cheeky!!
To explain it, I've nr really been much of a Mission fan. That's not to say I have never liked the sound of any Mission speakers, because I have. I used to like the Mission 782, the biggish syandmounter they did in the early 90's. They has a much more powerful bass than most Missions, and something just sounded right - but then I've always been drawn to speakers using the D'Appolito driver layout. Also, I have heard the 753 sound great with the right amplification - the one that springs to mind was the original Audiolab 8000c/8000p pre/power combo. I usually tend to find Mission to be a little exaggerated at the frequency extremes, and being a little recessed in the midrange.
As for my recommendation for the OP's system, I feel that of all the components in it, the Audiolab has the most potential.
To explain it, I've nr really been much of a Mission fan. That's not to say I have never liked the sound of any Mission speakers, because I have. I used to like the Mission 782, the biggish syandmounter they did in the early 90's. They has a much more powerful bass than most Missions, and something just sounded right - but then I've always been drawn to speakers using the D'Appolito driver layout. Also, I have heard the 753 sound great with the right amplification - the one that springs to mind was the original Audiolab 8000c/8000p pre/power combo. I usually tend to find Mission to be a little exaggerated at the frequency extremes, and being a little recessed in the midrange.
As for my recommendation for the OP's system, I feel that of all the components in it, the Audiolab has the most potential.
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