Advice on sub woofers and rear surround speakers

[beaker_07]

Hi,

I recently bought a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 2 front speakers and a Bronze centre speaker which i am using connected to a new Denon 2300 AV reciever.

I now wish to add a sub woofer and two rear surround speakers into my 12' x 12' room. The two rear speakers will have to be fitted high up on the wall (one approx. 7 feet to the underside of the speaker to be fixed above a door and can only be about 18" from the side wall). I have been told that I should if possible keep all the speakers the same make and range as they will then all tonally match.

I have been told the Monitor audio bronze FX speakers would not be suitable for this application as they have to be about 6' above the floor and a few feet from a side wall. I was thinking of using a pair of monitor audio MR1's as rear speakers tilted slightly into the room near each corner these are front firing only and are rear ported. How would these work being tight to the rear wall?

I was thinking of getting the Monitor audio MRW10 sub woofer which i can get for about £239 which is above the price I had orginally planned on spending but that is the cheapest of the MA range.

Also is it worth spending a lot on a sub woofer cable - I have seen a Fisual Pro Install cable from amazon at £5.50 recommended in the forums and wondered whether spending £20 on a Cambridge Audio would be worth it.

Any advice would be much appreciated - this is my first attempt at a 5.1 home cinema setup.

 

[macdiddy]

I would go for a pair of Bronze 1's mounted high up on the wall using their own brackets tilted down to the listening position, don't worry too much about them being too near the wall, make sure the speaker size setting on the Denon receiver is set to small so most of the bass is directed to the subwoofer.

On the subject of subwoofers I would go for the matching Monitor audio but as I use two of them in my system then I would say that, other people may suggest different makes, in the end its up to you, same with the connecting cable, the one you have seen on amazon will be fine but if you want to buy the cambridge audio then I won't disagree because it's what I used to connect mine.

oh by the way I use two pairs of the Bronze FX mounted about 5 feet off the ground but again what you choose to do is up to you.

finally welcome to the wonderfull world of surround sound, once you've heard your favourite films properly, you will never go back to plain old stereo.

*music2*

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks macdiddy,

I think the Bronze 1's will probably go with - I will check to see if they come with brackets or if they have to be bought seperatley.

The matching Bronze subwoofer is quite a bit beyond by intended budget I orginally had hoped to be able to get away with spending at most about £150 for a Cambridge audio SX120 but have been recommended the £239 MRW10 as a cheaper solution than the £499 of the Bronze.

Again it is the fact that i have been recommended to keep all the speakers the same make and range that I would spend the extra on the Bronze, but again I want to be as future proof as possible and don't want to have to replace any of the speakers in the near future.

I could get a Cambridge Audio AUD100 7.5m long cable for £20 or a 3m better quality Cambridge Audio cable for £20 (I can't remember the Ref. No.) I don't mind buying one of these as hopefully it would be a one of purchase that will do me in the future. I have used other CA leads and always been happy with them

 

[macdiddy]

The Bronze 1's do not come with brackets but there are some available especially for this speaker:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monitor-Audio-Masm-Single-Brackets-Speakers/dp/B000VJ4FAG/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1470335624&sr=8-13&keywords=monitor+audio

remember the price is for one bracket only so you would need to order two, the brackets are fully adjustable and screw into a thread on the back of the speaker ( I know this because I have a pair of Bronze 1's and use these brackets).

The Monitor audio sub you mention (MRW10) will be fine, you don't need to go for the matching Bronze sub, to me they look pretty similar in looks and spec.

I'll leave the cabling decision up to you, again I use alot of CA in my system and have no complaints.

*music2*

 

[Leeps]

Could you consider buying used / ex-demo for your sub? It would stretch your budget.

Look at the Bronze sub, Radius R370HD, Radius 380, Radius 390. They often come up on Ebay or any of the usual discount hifi chains. There are deals about - you never need to pay full price.

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks again macdiddy,

We seem to be on much the same wavelength equipment wise - I'm not sure what to do about the cable I think i might go for the CA one if I could manage to get a bit of discount. The 3m better quality one might be the best long term solution I'll probably have the sub positioned to the side of my front speakers firing forwards as I have been recommended in my local dealers. Which CA cable do you use and do you have any advice on speaker cable for front and rear again I have been recommended QED Silver Anniversary @ about £6.50 per metre although at the moment until I get my overall set up finalised I am using twin and earth mains cable until I know the exact lentghs I need.

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks Leeps,

I would consider an ex demo if a suitable one became avaiable although I would like to demo it before buying at this sort of price range wouldn't be so keen to buy it on ebay or online. As I said I'm completley new to 5.1 setups and would like to hear the difference a sub would make before buying.

 

[macdiddy]

I use something similar to this, but I only paid £20 per cable for my two sub setup:

http://www.richersounds.com/product/hi-fi-interconnects/cambridge-audio/aud500-7.5m/camb-aud500-7.5m

In regards to the speaker cable, the QED is a very good cable but depending on the lengths you will need it could become quite expensive, I used the following for the surrounds mainly because I needed long lengths and a lot of it in my 9.2 setup.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-cables/cambridge-audio/symphony-400/gale-symphony-400

Finally I think the position of the sub recommended to you is correct, pls don't put it in any of the corners of the room, I have mine inbetween my front and my centre spks and get plenty of low frequency output.

*music2*

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks again macdiddy,

I think that might be the same cable I was shown in my local Richer Sounds only it was a 3m length and cost £20 I can't remember its reference number.

I don't have a lot of space to place the sub inside one of the front speakers due to tv cabinet size and other furnishings in our living room! I will also be ordering 2 of the speaker stands / brackets you mentioned.

Re. the QED cable I would need approx. 2 x 1.5 - 2m lengths for my front speakers and about 1m for my centre speaker. Twice that if I was to bi wire the front speakers. What are your thoughts on bi wiring?

For the rear speakers I'm not sure what length I would need yet but I was recommended to use silver plated cable @ approx. £2.5 / m.

Do you use banana plugs in your system - I was thinking of using Cambridge Audio ones @ £4.99 per pair for at least the connections into the back of the Denon amp?

 

[f1only]

Do you use banana plugs in your system - I was thinking of using Cambridge Audio ones @ £4.99 per pair for at least the connections into the back of the Denon amp?

Why spend out so much when you can get decent quality gold plated banana plugs from Maplins for £3.29?

 

[beaker_07]

I have seen various banana plugs on amazon as well which are cheaper - I have read in the forums that there is a debate as to whether or not to use banana plugs at all - I have other Cambridge audio products and have been very happy with them so thought of just going for the brand I know - there are £9.99 premium ones avaible in richer sounds as well but i thought they were to expensive.

If anyone can recommend a different brand that would do the job then it would be much appreciated - i will check out maplins - how many do you get for £3.29?

 

[f1only]

1 pair

i have 7 pairs in my system!! sounds good to me & iv'e paid more for other makes, i cant differentiate any differnce in sound quality & strangely neither can my spl meter ... mind you that only measures volume levels

 

[macdiddy]

I brought two packs of these banana plugs due to the fact that I needed so many, they are well made and of good quality.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Connector-Banana-Plugs-Screw-Black/dp/B003BKW2K2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1470345652&sr=8-2&keywords=speaker+banana+plugs

the subject of bi-wiring is a personal one, some people like me thinks its a worth doing, others say its just an excuse to buy more cable, lucky for me (certainly cost wise) only my front spk have this facility.

Regarding the rear spk, you don't need silver plated cable, the cable I used (link in previous reply) would be just fine.

*music2*

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks,

I would only be bi wiring my front two speakers as well so the cost of the QED speaker cable wouldn't be too bad - I must admit the twin core mains cable doesn't sound too bad at all.

If I was to use banana plugs on all speaker connections and bi wired i would need 28 plugs in total or 14 if I just put the plugs on the amp and use bare wire into the speakers which are easliy fixed in the monitor audio speaker connections.

richer sounds have copper cable from £1 / m upwards I would probably use something about £2.50 / m as you suggest.

 

[beaker_07]

I was thinking of using a Cambridge Audio SX120 sub woofer which is avaiable from RS at £119 instead of the Monitor audio MRW10 at £239 and connecting it by a Fisual Pro Install cable from amazon at £5.50 which has been recommended in the forums.

The Cambridge Audio woud suit my current budget better but will it provide the performance of the Monitor audios

Has anyone any experience of the Cambridge Audio SX120 sub woofer?

I think i will be putting the rear speakers on hold for the moment.

 

[bigboss]

1) You need banana plugs only if you think you'll be disconnecting and reconnecting cables frequently. Otherwise, it's one more connection in your chain that is not recommended.

2) Don't spend a lot on cables, especially when you're on a tight budget. I can't hear any difference between cables, hence got cables at £1 per metre for my setup which is brilliant. Make sure it's 79 strand. Same goes with subwoofer cables. Fisual makes very good cables, I've got some.

 

[beaker_07]

I have been given some advice that my living room (12' x 12') is too small to benefit much from a sub woofer and also that the volumes I mostly listen at are too low to benefit from.

Iwill be able to demo a sub with my setup in my local RS store but again i have been advised that without a home demo I won't be able to get the true idea. The RS demo room would be no wider tha 12' but would be quite a bit longer.

Any thoughts on the advice I have been given - I like the idea of a sub to get to try to get the most out of my Denon AV amp.

 

[macdiddy]

as I run two Monitor Audio subs in a room not much bigger than yours, so long as you keep the sub away from the corners of your room then there should be no problems, nearly all active subs have volume and other controls on them to assist setup.

imo a proper home cinema setup is not complete without a subwoofer.

*music2*

 

[Frank Harvey]

In theory, you can use any size sub in any room, as it's all in the setup. I used to use two subs, each with dual 12" drivers in a room pretty much the same as yours. If it had been any other manufacturer than Ken Kreisel, I doubt I'd have got the results I did. Having said that, I do think that if I'd have gone for the smaller versions with 8" drivers, they would have suited my room better.

A good quality single 12" driver sub is enough for that type of room for average use, and even higher volumes - I currently use an SVS SB2000, which is more than enough for what I need with viewing films at around -20dB on the volume control. Dual subs will more evenly fill the room and address nulls to a certain extent, but you have to weight up whether two lower quality subs are as good as one better quality sub. In that size room, I'd rather look at a single, better quality subwoofer, which will be appreciated at any volume, especially as it should be better capable of blending with your speakers to make it sound as though you don't have two larger left and right speakers rather than a separate sub.

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks guys for your advice - I think I will probably go for the monitor audio sub @ £239 - I will be able to audition it with my setup in my local RS store.

I'm tempted to go for the Bronze FX speakers placed on the rear wall as my rear speakers - again I been told I will get a good price on these - will ask what they can do for me if I was to buy both together!

MA themsevles recommended the MA MR1's as rear speakers tilted slightly inwards - the FX's would be quite unobtrusive on my rear wall the only problem is the chairs are tight against the rear wall so there is no distance between the listening position and the speakers - would this be a problem?

I think I will get a sub woofer cable from amazon to get me started some of the cables in RS are beyond my budget.

 

[macdiddy]

try this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-5m-Install-Subwoofer-Cable/dp/B000WXNC5K/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1487253833&sr=8-7&keywords=fisual+subwoofer+cable

also available in 3m or 10m lengths as required.

as to your rear spk solution, if you can get a good price on the Bronze FX then I would go for it, again I use these for rears in my system where I sit quite close to the rear wall, the best thing about these spks is they can be switched between two modes of operation, try them out in either way to see what suits you and don't forget you may need to change the distance settings on your Denon amp.

*music2*

 

[beaker_07]

That's the cable I was going to get only the 3m length would be ample for me.

From your previous response I assumed that you were using the FX as extra rear speakers on the rear wall as part of a 7.1 system and others as your main rear speakers? The FX are also aesthetically pleasing for a living room.

I have been told by a friend that in a room of 12' x 12' I will not benefit from any rear speaker at all. The local RS demo room is about the same width and about 1.5 times longer the only difference is the rear speakers are about 1m behinf the listening position

 

[macdiddy]

ignore that friend, my room at home is only just a bit bigger than yours and I use two pairs of FX's on the side and rear walls plus some height spks for a total 9.2 setup and it sounds great.

*music2*

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks again macdiddy - knowing what works well for you in a similar-ish sized room is giving me the confidence to go ahead definetly with the sub woofer very soon and probably with the rear speakers (FX's) in the near future depending on what's the best deal I can get from my local RS. The FX's were recommeded to me by RS but it was the fact that I contacted MA for advice ended up confusing me more - the FX's will definetly blend in better as I mentioned before.

If you don't mind me asking what do you think about bi-amping the front speakers and do you have any advice regarding what is the best type of HDMI cables to use - the ones I'm using at the moment are amazon basics range?

 

[macdiddy]

after all that is what these forums are for, there's always someone with a similar situation.

To answer your questions I didn't use the bi-amping function on my amp, I just felt is was easier to wire front left terminal to front left spk and front right terminal to front right spk but again thats another thing you can try out.

As to hdmi cables, although I did use some high priced cables to connect my bluray player/sky box to my amp, most of my other cables are these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neet-HIGH-SPEED-Ethernet-Channel-Genuine/dp/B002EA11HA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1487267506&sr=8-7&keywords=neet+hdmi+cables

available in various lengths for the money they look like more expensive cables and are very well made. I use various lengths in my system including a 10 metre which is almost as thick as garden hosepipe.

*music2*