Advice on getting deeper bass needed please!

[mattc76]

Hi all!
My system at the minute is a Logitech squeezebox feeding FLAC via coax digital to a Cyrus DAC XP, X power and b&w CM1 speakers with Atlas hyper 2.0 speaker cable and missing link alaqeia interconnects. My listening room is the lounge which is about 4m by 4m square but very awkward as there is a door in each corner therefore positioning is difficult. So the speakers are about 2.5m apart and 10inches from the back wall. Unfortunately this is the only position they can be placed. My listening position is about 2.5m at the apex of the triangle (on the sofa!). With this setup the mids, treble and soundstage and imaging are superb. The problem is the bass. The CM 1s are rear ported with bungs supplied (full bung or half bung!). After a lot of removing and tweaking of bungs I have found that: no bungs=deep bass (but unnatural sounding) and boomy. Half bungs in both = not as deep bass, less boomy but still boomy and still a bit unnatural sounding. Full bungs in both = no boom but also obviously lacking in bass therefore sounding too thin. So at the moment I've got one speaker completely bunged and one half bunged which seems to give me enough bass to make it sound more balanced but also eliminating any boom. Thebpronlem now is the bass seems to come and go ie a moderately bassy bit sounds great but when it gets deeper it sort if disappears. Therefore I'm hankering after that lower octave without boom! I am using cheapo speaker stands (from R sounds) so I could get some better ones allowing me to reduce the boom with less bungage but am not entirely convinced it will aqchieve the desired effect. I am quietly hankering after some 805s's or some spendors but new speakers would be difficult to sneak past swmbo. Would a subwoofer help or is this just the limitations of the cm1s?
Cheers
Matt
ps why is it such a nightmare to view this site on an iPhone? Let alone post anything!

 

[Messiah]

I would certainly go for a sub. I have always preferred the combination of a standmount with a sub.

The way I look at it is that a sub is specifically designed to produce bass so if you want to improve in this area then this is the way to go......

 

[Anonymous]

I personally would opt for floorstanders but that's me

 

[Sy101]

This might sound odd advise, but I found by filling my lounge with more furniture brought in new tightened up bass and resolved any booming. I replaced a chair for a leather sofa + a rug on the floor and it was an awesome upgrade! I would also go for some new speaker stands because you'll be limiting any other upgrade and decent ones that make a clear difference aren't too pricey. New floorstanding speakers would be the ideal upgrade for that deep bass though. Lastly, you've definitely got any uni-directional cables the right way round...oh and if you've got access to some other equipment to test / isolate the problem it's worth doing.

 

[Craig M.]

try some sealed box speakers. square rooms are usually the worst, when it comes to bass response.

 

[MattSPL]

If you like the sound you have now but just want deeper bass, then give a Sub a try. But if possible, go for a downward firing sealed box Sub as this will give the best integration in a 2ch setup.

If however, you would like a change of speaker, try a sealed box design as recomended above. I swear by ATC, as do a lot of other Forum members.
Ive had front ported speakers, front and rear transmission line design's and found all of them difficult to get a smooth response in room.
Front ported will be far better for you than rear ported by the sounds of it but may still cause problems.

 

[mattc76]

Hi, and thanks for all the replies.
Maybe I should do the simple things first such as get some decent speaker stands. Can anyone recommend some decent stands that will also pass the wife test and not look too industrial?
Cheers,
Matt

 

[Craig M.]

speaker stands can give tighter bass, depending on what your current ones are like. i think the ones that do this tend to be industrial, oil rig types, filled with atabites/sand etc.

for the best sound though, i think you'd get the result you want by changing speakers. some speakers just won't work in some rooms, and i doubt your getting anything like the best out of your speakers by bunging them.

maybe you could try drinking straws in your ports, i've read this can give a better result then using port bungs.

 

[MattSPL]

Were you reading that wacky list of tweaks Craig?

 

[Craig M.]

i haven't had time, matt. i've been too busy demagnetising my cds.

 

[MattSPL]

You'll have to let us know how that goes

 

[chebby]

Your CM1 instructions (10 meg PDF) suggest the speakers should be more like 0.5m from the back wall (that is about 20" or double the distance you currently have).

I would also suggest you don't toe them in (it points the reflex ports towards the corners which are already quite close) unless imaging is a problem.

Try bringing the seperation in to 2m rather than 2.5m. (Again, further from corners and might improve imaging at your listening distance which will now be nearer 2m if you have them the recommended 0.5m from the wall.)

Don't use any bunging at all but get the sound right with positioning and better stands.

The B&W specs state 55hz at -3dB which is pretty respectable if true. (Actually better than the claimed specs for ATC SCM11s which are 56hz at -6dB.)

Rigid, spiked stands are essential. Try the Partington Trophys. They are not as 'industrial' looking as the heavier Dreadnoughts and are only about £130. (The pillars should be sand filled to 3/4 length of each column for optimum performance.)

Use Blu-Tack* to affix the speakers to the stands.

*Never pull the speaker off a stand if Blu-Tacked but instead 'slice' through the Blu-Tack with a store/loyalty card (they fit easier in the gap than credit cards with embossed numbers) and then gently twist the speakers off.

 

[Craig M.]

the problem is, the port is responsible for that bass response figure, bung it and your just listening to the driver - so no low bass. as chebby says, you would need to have the recommended gap behind them for the bass to have any chance of staying tight. i had a similar issue with some dyns, toeing in to point straight at me with 50cm behind them, and a good metre from the corners gave the best results. if you haven't the room to position them how the designer intended, you'll never hear them at their best.

what the hell is it with speaker manufacturers, and designing them so they can't go near a wall? it's not like the average uk livingroom is big enough to give them the space they need.

 

[jaxwired]

Had the exact same problem when I owned my CM7s. OMG, those bungs drove me nuts! Bung, no bung, half bung, full bung, ahhhgg!!! We'd be better off without so many options. This is why I'd never buy speakers with selectors on the back like the new PMC fact speakers. I'd spend all my time adjusting.

Regarding bungs in general, I don't like them. The speakers are not designed and optimized for bung use. So it doesn't make sense to use them. If you can't get great sound sans bungs, then the speakers need to be replaced IMO.

With that said, the CM line of speakers are excellent. It's hard to better them for the money. So I'd take the previous advice and experiment with wall proximity and toe in. Also, remember, some CDs just plain s u c k. They are mixed with boomy bass. It happens. No kidding. It's not always the speakers fault. If you always blame the speakers, you will driver yourself crazy.

 

[shooter]

mattc76:Hi, and thanks for all the replies.
Maybe I should do the simple things first such as get some decent speaker stands. Can anyone recommend some decent stands that will also pass the wife test and not look too industrial?
Cheers,
Matt

Atacama Aurora 6.

 

[Anonymous]

Great advice about getting better bass here http://i.imgur.com/wKyat.jpg. Certainly worked for me.