Advance Paris? What is it, how is it?

[Kutusov]

It's only in the last couple of years that I've spotted a lot of their gear on reputable hifi (online)stores. The looks are so quirky to me that I never really paid much attention to Advance Paris, thinking it would be some sort of clueless Chinese company just throwing stuff together.

But recently I've also noticed that some audiophile comparisons between amps have been including some of their units.

I couldn't find much about this brand online so does anyone know anything about them? Any experience with, say, their A12 or separates?

 

[Al ears]

It's only in the last couple of years that I've spotted a lot of their gear on reputable hifi (online)stores. The looks are so quirky to me that I never really paid much attention to Advance Paris, thinking it would be some sort of clueless Chinese company just throwing stuff together.

But recently I've also noticed that some audiophile comparisons between amps have been including some of their units.

I couldn't find much about this brand online so does anyone know anything about them? Any experience with, say, their A12 or separates?

Its French, not Chinese and very well regarded in places.
as you say probably not many with experience on this forum.
See KronosAV if in the UK.

Advance Paris A10 Classic Integrated Amplifier Review - AudioPals

Our review of the Advance Paris A10.

www.audiopals.co.uk

unfortunately lack of dealerships precludes audition

 

[bigfish786]

I noticed these today on Kronosav website while I was window shopping. It’s the only dealer I’ve dropped on that have them listed.

 

[robdmarsh]

Looks kind of classy but I reckon the blue VU meters would grow irritating pretty quickly!

 

[Al ears]

Looks kind of classy but I reckon the blue VU meters would grow irritating pretty quickly!

i feel sure they can be deactivated or toned down.....

 

[robdmarsh]

i feel sure they can be deactivated or toned down.....

You'd hope so.

Anyway, with my Triangle love affair I've definitely got a soft spot for the Gallic gear. Would be intrigued to hear one of their integrated amps.

 

[Kutusov]

@Al ears thanks for the link!

The VUs and displays can be dimmed from what I've read. But the white leds around the knobs cant

I currently have the Iota VX stack and I've postponed buying that because I "Knew" I would hate the lightshow... I don't.

There's a good comparison here: (1) Live Multitest Integrated Amplifiers - 2500 euro - YouTube

Through my system I began by not being impressed with it and the Arcan and Yamaha sounded a lot better to me. But after their lunch break, I couldn't really tell the Advance from the other ones. Maybe fatigue and youtube compression.

 

[npxavar]

Its predecessor the "Advance Acoustic X-i125" sounds detailed, spacious and smooth, albeit with a tube-inspired tint over all music. My preference went to Cambridge Audio CXA80 because of the tint and smoothness. Puts you to sleep.

 

[Kutusov]

Its predecessor the "Advance Acoustic X-i125" sounds detailed, spacious and smooth, albeit with a tube-inspired tint over all music. My preference went to Cambridge Audio CXA80 because of the tint and smoothness. Puts you to sleep.

AHAHA!

I was initially interested (and still am) in the Vincent SV 237 or 737 but there are a couple of things in their operation that really puts me off. Apparently there's no fine tunning of the volume and that's a problem for me at nigh. My Rega Io was like that and it really p***ed me off as my music files don't have normalized volume. The other thing is the very basic remote, as a use a Flirc and unused remote buttons for media control.

So it was by looking into Vincent that I was reminded of the Advance Paris gear.

Oh, and apparently Advance Paris is a French/German venture as they are under the umbrella of Quadral (probably distribution).

 

[Zwarter_020]

Yes, it seems to be a French-German co-op. Manufacturing is done in China. None of this make it appealing for me. But nevertheless, I recently decided that it's time for my Yamaha DSP Z-9 to retire. Since I only listen to stereo, I was looking for an integrated stereo amp that's build for the future, has good reviews and a look that I like. After a long journey I ended up with the Advance Paris A10 Classic and I'm really really, really satisfied with it. What a power, what a sound. But I might have been lucky. Thing is, the original A10 Classic had the AK4490 DAC. And as many other brands, they were forced to change the DAC due to the fire in the AKM factory. But as many other brands, they didn't exactly did a good job in communicating this matter. Just like Denon/Marantz they simply didn't. My device has a ES9018 DAC which I'm happy about. Older models either have the AK4490 or the PCM1792 DAC. If it makes a big difference, I don't know. But I didn't like to find out about this after my purchase and realizing all the reviews that I've read were based on a device with an unknown DAC.

 

[Kutusov]

I din't know the A10 had Sabre/AKM chips, I ended up buying the A12 and it's a Burr Brown chip in there. It's the weak link int he integrated but I use a Denafrips Ares II external DAC anyway. The A10 was probably the most reviewed out of the two and it got very positive reviews.

 

[Zwarter_020]

There are actually 'some' A10 Classics on the market with an Texas Instruments/Burr Brown PCM1792 DAC in it. It was their first choice after the AKM fire. But quickly replaced it for the ES9018. No idea why. But I would take the A12 reviews with criticism about the DAC with a few graints of salt. I mean, it's all based on spec sheets. Burr Brown is a manufacturer that earned it's stripes, but indeed isn't that popular anymore lately. What made you choose for the A12 over the A10? And do you enjoy the A12?

 

[Kutusov]

The DAC in mine isn't great, for an amp of this price and quality I would say get an external DAC because it is an important bottleneck in the system if you go with the onboard one.

I ended up choosing the A12 because it's a true dual mono design with separate power sources for each channel. It replaced an Iota VX stack and the monoblock configuration was important for my previous speakers that always gave me problems in my room (Q Acoustics 3050i).

At the time, my other options after this thread were the Arcam SA30 or the Yamaha A-S1200, so the Advance was in that price range already.

If I could get back, I would also consider the Kinki Studio, but either I wasn't aware of it at the time or I though it would be a lot more expensive.

 

[Zwarter_020]

Oeff if I had your budget I would have chosen the Yamaha R-N2000A (the A-S1200 half-digital brother). Big fan of Yamaha! The Kinki Studio amps seem very interesting indeed. But weren't the looks of the Advance Paris one of the reasons to choose them over the others? I just love the VU meters, and also when the device is off. The Denafrips with his great R2R DAC in combination with the A12 must sound awesome, or isnt't it?

 

[Kutusov]

Funny enough, I almost didn't buy it because of the looks. I just had a hunch that I would hate the "tacky" blue VU meters. I did like the idea of VU meters but I guess I'm more of a vintage silver clicky toggle switches kind of guy. Fortunately my fears didn't realize and I ended up liking its looks. It's certainly much more interesting than the Arcan or some Atoll products. The problem with the VU meters is that the amp is so powerful, and I listen to low to medium volumes, that those things barely move!

I wasn't aware of that Yamaha, probably because it's also a streamer. I have a PC connected to the DAC and I play everything through there. I have a Spotify acc, had an Apple Music acc also but I only use those to play music in the car or when I'm away from home. At home I don't play music that way, my brain is just not wired to streaming music, I really don't get it...

The Ares 2 was probably the most shocking upgrade I ever made. Ok, so I went from a Zen Dac to the Ares that costs 10x more but people that say DACs are all the same should listen to those two. It's night and day.

Right now it might be too much of a good thing though... I upgraded my speakers to a pair of Wharfedale Lintons and the whole system might be leaning too much on the velvety, warmer side. I'm not sure if replacing the Ares for something more Delta-Sigma-like wouldn't be a good thing to offset the tendency of the Lintons to be polite in the top end. Or just try a pair of supertweeters, I heard good things about the end results. Silver cabling could do it too.

I'm not in a hurry nor do I think my system sucks. The room does though, it's too bright and too asymmetrical. I'll probably will have to move in a year or so, so would make more sense to think about further upgrades then. But as it is, I am enjoying my music.

 

[Zwarter_020]

Haha yeah those VU meters don't 'dance' like 80's equalizers do. And if they do, you're probably heading towards lifelong tinnitus or serious hearing damage. My speakers are 4 ohms, which might make them move more than 8 ohm speakers on which the meters are calibrated on.

I can appreciate your choice for the 'vintage' Wharfdale Lintons. Estatic wise it definitely makes a difference compared to a pair of (i.e.) high gloss painted B&W's or Elac's. And I think it also gives a certain 'guarantee' of buying a good product, being on the market so long and so popular. But achieving a particular sound that (totally) suits your personal taste is, I think, the most challenging and enjoyable part of this 'Hifi hobby'. Imho, people who talk in terms of a 'better/worse' sound and that something like DAC's or cables make 0,0% difference are lacking the ability to understand and grow in Hifi terms, or are just irrational. Terms like warm/neutral/cold, detail, dynamics, stereo placement, harshness etc. are useful to mention so everyone can decide what probably will be 'better' for them. Thing with DAC's is that the amount of DAC's available, the filter settings plus the importance of the whole (circuit) implementation creates so many variables that it's almost impossible to have a good discussion about it. But I think simple logic says that DAC's (and cables) do matter, sometimes just a bit and sometimes a lot. I believe it mostly depends on the vendor. As in, every DAC vendor has a few engineers that determine how a certain DAC 'should' sound. In my case the ESS ES9018 DAC gives a clean, very detailed but also somewhat flat sound which in combination with my 'vintage' 1993 MB Quart 2000's gives a sound that makes me spend every evening listening for hours without any fatigue (with a little + treble & bass).

In your case I can imagine it's a bit too 'velvet'. As someone who appreciates Yamaha, velvet sound is not something to achieve (too much). Your Linton tweeters stretch to 20Khz, where my titanium tweeters (suppose) to go to 32Khz. From a scientific approach, handy to keep the bats away but far beyond the frequencies we can hear. I think the difference relies on the material (incl. casing) used plus the cross-over(s) settings.So changing to supertweeters can definitely make a difference, but more because of the material used than the frequency range (I think). But I rule nothing out and certainly encourage anyone to experiment with whatever they want.

About your listening space. Personally I have good experience with 'smart' lights (i.e. Philips HUE lights) that can change the amount of temperature. The effects still surprise me every day. I can create light that seems like genuine daylight but also a very warm tinted light that eases and relaxes the mind and is perfect for evening listening.

 

[Zwarter_020]

And about music streaming. It's something to get used to (or not). But from what I can tell, it's really really worth getting a subscription at Qobuz and a streamer with a digital coax out to the amplifier and enjoy music with the least amount of compression. The HR remastered albums can be absolutely amazing. I've also connected the Advance Paris to my PC through the USB-B connection to hear the difference. And in my experience it was 'naked', some missing lows and simply boring compared to my Node 2i connected through coax.

 

[Kutusov]

When I mentioned the listening space, it was more about how the sound sounds in my room. It's very far away from being ideal and not something the better speakers or electronics can handle. Maybe Dirac could do something about that... or what seems to be Yamaha's equivalent on that amp you've mentioned. But it's a rented flat that came with "furniture" (most likely picked up in some garbage dump) so there's not much I can do.

Funny you've mention Philips Hue because lighting has been something that has been driving me up the walls for some years now. It's almost the same problem with sound in the room, I can't get a nice relaxed indirect light that I find comfortable. I was considering those small round Philips lamps during Black Friday but I was also thinking I should get a slightly bigger TV so why not go with a Philips Ambilight one as they also act (I think) as a bridge to more Hue products if needed. Ended up not getting either one. But I do have one of those RGB and warm light bulbs behind the TV and I like the idea. As it is, it's just not enough but adding another one could do the trick.

 

[Zwarter_020]

Haha, some time after my reaction I also thought that you probably meant the acoustics in your listening space, instead of things like light and furniture. But funny thing is, is that acoustics was exactly the thing that I've been experimenting with the past days. I see Hifi as a hobby that needs a certain 'distance', because of the risk of getting carried away and spend hundreds or thousands of euro's of things like power cord cables, silver speaker cables or whatever there's on the market to give that unlikely 'massive sound improvement'. I believe there is much much more to gain with the right acoustic adjustments in the listening space. Which is unfortunately also extremely difficult because of the technical side, as well as the limited ability to simply move furniture 3 meters to the front or left or change the material of it. I (think) I have gained some quality by:
- Placing the speakers incline instead of parallel to the wall
- Placing the speakers about 60 cm from the back of the wall
- Placing the speakers about 1.2 meters from the sides of the wall (formula: speaker placement at 0.276 * total width of the room in meters)
- Putting a rug/carpet/blanket on the floor.
- Trying to maintain the 'triangle' of the listening position (listen at the same distance as the distance between the two speakers)

It also seems that a great way to adjust/improve the (lack) of acoustics in a room, is by adding a subwoofer. Despite the fact of having speakers that go low as +/- 20Hz and the lack of need for a subwoofer per se.

As for Philips, despite being proud of the brand as a Dutch citizen, I'm glad you didn't buy the TV and other things. While the lights are still pretty good, it's heavily overpriced and the TV's of LG and Sony are so much better. If you got an LG, there is actually a way to make it an 'ambilight TV' by rooting it and installing certain software. But you need a certain amount of 'computer nerd knowledge' to accomplish that without severe frustration. But don't hesitate to ask me anything about this topic, there's not much I don't know about LG TV's and rooting them.

 

[Fandango Andy]

It's only in the last couple of years that I've spotted a lot of their gear on reputable hifi (online)stores. The looks are so quirky to me that I never really paid much attention to Advance Paris, thinking it would be some sort of clueless Chinese company just throwing stuff together.

But recently I've also noticed that some audiophile comparisons between amps have been including some of their units.

I couldn't find much about this brand online so does anyone know anything about them? Any experience with, say, their A12 or separates?

I have briefly heard one (I think it was an A10 not an A12) with Triangle floorstanders. It sounded really good and looked good too.

 

[radoznao]

Hi, Zwarter_020,
What part of the loudspeaker should be 60 cm from the front wall and what part of the speaker should be about 1,2 meters from the sidewall, please. Thank you.

 

[Kutusov]

Hi, Zwarter_020,
What part of the loudspeaker should be 60 cm from the front wall and what part of the speaker should be about 1,2 meters from the sidewall, please. Thank you.

Bot sure about the numbers but typically you measure distance to back wall from the speaker grill and the right side of a speaker to the right wall, left to left wall. But it will vary hugely from speaker to speaker and room to room.

 

[Kutusov]

As for Philips, despite being proud of the brand as a Dutch citizen, I'm glad you didn't buy the TV and other things. While the lights are still pretty good, it's heavily overpriced and the TV's of LG and Sony are so much better. If you got an LG, there is actually a way to make it an 'ambilight TV' by rooting it and installing certain software. But you need a certain amount of 'computer nerd knowledge' to accomplish that without severe frustration. But don't hesitate to ask me anything about this topic, there's not much I don't know about LG TV's and rooting them.

I'm pretty disappointed with LG, I have one and it's just too dark. I was at a store today with lots of TVs playing the same movie and, again, the LGs would show just a black blob on parts of the movie where there were strong shadows. They had Hisense, OLEDs, Samsungs, etc but it was a mid-tear Samsung that behaved the best. At least on 50 inch sizes, which is the size that interests me. Not a lot a choice there and they probably sell way less than 55s. A lot of the time the same model in the larger size will be cheaper due to same sail. I hardly watch tv or have the time for a full movie, so not much of an issue for me.

I do think the Philips TVs are expensive for what they are but I wouldn't mind that terribly just to have the back leds out of the box. Unfortunately Philips TVs can't be found here in Portugal in big box retailers. Sony is also pretty hard, save for OLEDs or very large formats.

 

[Al ears]

Bot sure about the numbers but typically you measure distance to back wall from the speaker grill and the right side of a speaker to the right wall, left to left wall. But it will vary hugely from speaker to speaker and room to room.

Nope! Measure from back of speakers to rear wall....

 

[Kutusov]

Nope! Measure from back of speakers to rear wall....

Is that the general meaning? I'm always confused about this as a lot of people tell me to measure speaker distance from their drivers... I never know what people mean when they state distance from the back wall...