Adding a power/stereo amp to an AV receiver...

[Pistol Pete1]

ok.......

Going to add my Pioneer A-605R stereo amp to my Denon AVR 2310 using the 'pre out' tomorrow.......

Reading through the (lovely!?!) Denon manual, there is no suggestion of having to change any settings in the receiver to do this....

Am I correct in thinking the 'Pre outs' are always 'active', and as long as I disconnect all front speaker cable from the receiver and connect them up to the Pioneer, it'll be a case of setting the volume control on the Pioneer, and running the set up again (obviously using analogue connectors from Pre outs to 'Line In' on the stereo amp as well)....??

 

[Anonymous]

Pistol Pete1:
ok.......

Going to add my Pioneer A-605R stereo amp to my Denon AVR 2310 using the 'pre out' tomorrow.......

Reading through the (lovely!?!) Denon manual, there is no suggestion of having to change any settings in the receiver to do this....

Am I correct in thinking the 'Pre outs' are always 'active', and as long as I disconnect all front speaker cable from the receiver and connect them up to the Pioneer, it'll be a case of setting the volume control on the Pioneer, and running the set up again (obviously using analogue connectors from Pre outs to 'Line In' on the stereo amp as well)....??

yup, when you run the auto setup on the denon just set the pioneers volume to half way first.

then when you want to play two channel music select stereo on the denon.

be sure to remember to turn the volume down on the pio first though or you'll scare the life out of the wife

 

[Pistol Pete1]

Max...

The test tones will be very, very loud at half way!!! It is very loud at 11 o'clock!! Was thinking more 9-10 o clock position....

The cd player will be connected to the Pioneer, so the Denon will not be used when playing two channel music....

 

[Anonymous]

Pistol Pete1:
Max...

The test tones will be very, very loud at half way!!! It is very loud at 11 o'clock!! Was thinking more 9-10 o clock position....

The cd player will be connected to the Pioneer, so the Denon will not be used when playing two channel music....

the kefs must be an easy load then pete? i suppose 9 o'clock will be ok, i think the denon will set the levels of the fronts a bit higher during auto-setup if need be..

edit.. the test tones will be controlled by the denon, doesn't matter how loud the pio is set. once it's not set too low.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Pistol Pete1:The test tones will be very, very loud at half way!!! It is very loud at 11 o'clock!! Was thinking more 9-10 o clock position
You should set it to half way as this is the amps maximum output. From here, the auto set up will determine what level should be set at the Denon for it and the other channels to be in line with each other. Don't worry, it's not like playing music at that volume

 

[Pistol Pete1]

David,

I don't understand how half way is the amps maximum output?

I'll obviously trust you on the 'it's not like playing music at that volume'......

 

[Frank Harvey]

Most amps that use the conventional type of analogue volume control will have their maximum output at about half way. It can be slightly more, but the 12 o'clock position is usually a safe bet. If you imagine that the output from your CD player is about 2 volts, it's passed to the amp, and if you wanted to hear that 2 volts 'as is', you'd turn your amp up to about half way. If your amp had no volume control (like a power amplifier), and just passed that 2 volt signal though to your speakers, amplifying it in the process, that's what you'd hear - 2 volts in all it's glory. But your amplifier has a volume control, which means you can turn it right down.

As your A605 is acting as a power amplifier, it needs to be set to the same volume as a power amplifier - maximum. It would then be down to the pre-amplifier (your Denon in this case) to 'turn it down', so to speak.

Not sure I'm making that clear, but I hope I did

 

[Pistol Pete1]

So if the amp is at maximum output (2V) at half way (12 o'clock), how come it gets louder after that position is passed?

 

[scene]

Pistol Pete1:So if the amp is at maximum output (2V) at half way (12 o'clock), how come it gets louder after that position is passed?
My understanding is that although your amp gets louder beyond this point, that the gain levels mean the signal will be clipped and/or distorted. So it may be loder, but it will start to sound noticeably distorted...

 

[DandyCobalt]

If helpful, I've had similar conflict between improving sound through stereo/fronts, and family usability. I simply could not add another box of knobs to the already overladen a/v stand. Using my Pioneer LX53 a/v amp as the pre-amp, I have added a Cyrus XPower power amp between the LX53 and the B&W CM8 front speakers. The Cyrus has been hidden away, has no user controls (except standby) and has auto-power-on - so the family doesn't need to worry.

The increase in musicality and capability of the CM8s has been significant, and I'd highly recommend it. I connect my blu-ray CA650 with HDMI for movies/SACD/DVD-A, and for stereo with analogue RCAs - both to the Pioneer a/v amp. I then change input on the Pioneer with the remote, depending on what I'm listening to. Wife noticed improved sound immediately, no change in what remote to use, and family happy.

 

[lesmallett]

Does adding a stereo amp improve the sound at lower volumes?

What I mean by that is when listening to music I have to have the volume turned right up on my AE Neo 3 speakers. When people are round and the volume is low they sound like their still asleep.

My Onkyo 606 is a major cause of this I know but just wondering if all amps need volume to make music enjoyable.

 

[lesmallett]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but just to clarify.

If I was to buy a nice AV amp with Pre-outs and then a nice stereo amp and assuming my music sources were plugged straight into the stereo amp I would have nice stereo music but my AV sound would be affected my the stereo amp powering the front speakers?

Can this be worked around by buying the same make of receiver and stereo amp?

I really want to avoid having 2 sets of speaker wires.

 

[Anonymous]

lesmallett:
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but just to clarify.

If I was to buy a nice AV amp with Pre-outs and then a nice stereo amp and assuming my music sources were plugged straight into the stereo amp I would have nice stereo music but my AV sound would be affected my the stereo amp powering the front speakers?

Can this be worked around by buying the same make of receiver and stereo amp?

I really want to avoid having 2 sets of speaker wires.

i've had a stereo amp (powering the fronts) connected to an avr's pre-outs and couldn't hear a difference compared to using the avr to power all the speakers directly, perhaps on high end systems like clare's a difference may be more easily noticed..

unless you're spending big money i wouldn't worry about it, i think it's more important to have the same speakers throughout, same make and range..

 

[lesmallett]

But if the music sources are plugged directly into the stereo amp it won't be touched by the AV amp surely? The pre-outs would then just be used with multi-channel through the AV.

 

[Anonymous]

lesmallett:But if the music sources are plugged directly into the stereo amp it won't be touched by the AV amp surely? The pre-outs would then just be used with multi-channel through the AV.

yes the avr is redundant when you're listening to stereo music from sources connected direct to the stereo amp, and for movies or tv, games etc the stereo amp is basically a power amp that channels the sound from the avr through the front speakers.

 

[lesmallett]

So Clare was talking about tonal consistency in terms of mulit-channel then? Which brings me back to, can this be avoided by pairing say a Marantz av receiver with a Marantz stereo amp.

 

[Anonymous]

lesmallett:So Clare was talking about tonal consistency in terms of mulit-channel then? Which brings me back to, can this be avoided by pairing say a Marantz av receiver with a Marantz stereo amp. yea i think that is what clare was talking about. i don't personally think that sticking with the same brand is going to help, stereo amps and avr's from the same company don't always sound tonally similar. an example would be yamahas as-500 which is said to be slightly forward sounding yet their avr's are said to be on the warm side. just my view anyway

 

[strapped for cash]

That's always been my perspective. The only real solution, if you've the budget and space to do it, is to have two systems: one for music, the other for home cinema. Otherwise, you have to accept some level of compromise.

 

[Pistol Pete1]

strapped for cash:

That's always been my perspective. The only real solution, if you've the budget and space to do it, is to have two systems: one for music, the other for home cinema. Otherwise, you have to accept some level of compromise.

After 'creating' two systems recently, I'd have to agree with the above statement......

 

[Anonymous]

This is an issue I've been battling for a few years two I really like the idea of the as-500 ax-v667 combo and not only switch front L&R but sub too.

But have all manner of unity gain issues, the two separate systems would be the obvious.

Does anyone know of a speaker selection solution?? Get the feeling a market is there.... A small one anyway.