A strange experiance . . .

[CJSF]

I new people would point and laugh, go ahead, it matter not to me. My ears tell me what i am hearing is different, I have been laughed at befor and been proved right, as mentione to the_Lhc, 'filled stands'.

I only pay the £5pm Unlimited service to Spotify so in theory, only get the low bit rate? But facts are facts, my ears have never let me down over many years of evaluating hifi.

So, say what you like, I am very happy with my SQ from Spotify.

CJSF

 

[BenLaw]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc . . . the earth was considered flat by many seafarers . . . a long time ago. There was a program on TV last night, in eighteen hundred and something, a scientist put forward that everything is made of atoms, no one believed him . . . we dont even question it these days . . . and then there is evolution, the earth is only 10,000 years old, they said . . . need I go on?

People often see things long before science and gurus proves the point. Been there myself, heavy or loaded stands dont work . . . they said . . . its the norm to recommend filling as an option these days, you can even buy 'wiz-bag proper filling' made for the job (of parting you from your cash) . 8)

Just my humble opinion of course . . . CJSF

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

Sorry, but you're wrong on this one CJ. Also don't understand your evolution analogy in this context.

 

[BenLaw]

I new people would point and laugh, go ahead, it matter not to me. My ears tell me what i am hearing is different, I have been laughed at befor and been proved right, as mentione to the_Lhc, 'filled stands'. I only pay the £5pm Unlimited service to Spotify so in theory, only get the low bit rate? But facts are facts, my ears have never let me down over many years of evaluating hifi. So, say what you like, I am very happy with my SQ from Spotify. CJSF

Nobody's suggesting it's not what your ears are telling you or that you're not very happy with the SQ of your system. I'm sure everyone is delighted about that. But what you suggest is happening is impossible, and therefore your subjective account is meaningless to draw any conclusions from.

 

[The_Lhc]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc . . . the earth was considered flat by many seafarers . . . a long time ago. There was a program on TV last night, in eighteen hundred and something, a scientist put forward that everything is made of atoms, no one believed him . . . we dont even question it these days . . . and then there is evolution, the earth is only 10,000 years old, they said . . . need I go on?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

Sorry, but you're wrong on this one CJ.

Thank you.

Also don't understand your evolution analogy in this context.

Quite, the young earth belief has nothing to do with science, and would involve talking about religion, which I've no interest in doing and which is also why I didn't respond to the other example about the Earth being the centre of the universe. That was a belief held by the church, long after fairly simple observations of planetary motion showed it couldn't be the case but scientists at the time couldn't make that statement without being accused of being heretics, which generally wasn't a good career move.

 

[The_Lhc]

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc

At what again? Injecting some facts into the discussion? Curse my damn fool rational thinking!

 

[Trefor Patten]

Just an idea, you understand, but is it possible that everything sounds a bit better because connections have been taken apart and put together again, thereby cleaning all the contact surfaces? Not wishing to start the whole cable debate for the umpteenth time, but there are audible effects from the most unlikely sources. I recently listened to a demo of the Dragonfly DAC. That was exciting, but what was truly mystifying was the effect of a 'better' CAT 7 cable between the external hard drive and the Macbook Pro being used as a music server. I have long been convinced of the benefits of good interconnects and speaker cable, but data transfer, No. However, I listened and the music got more real and the Audioquest cable is pretty cheap anyway, so it is on my shopping list. I cannot logically account for why it should have an effect, but it did and at under £30 I will be giving it a go.

 

[chebby]

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc

At what again? Injecting some facts into the discussion? Curse my damn fool rational thinking!

I think CJ was raised on Sam Cooke rather than James Cook...

Don't know much about history

Don't know much biology

Don't know much about a science book

Don't know much about the french I took

 

[The_Lhc]

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc

At what again? Injecting some facts into the discussion? Curse my damn fool rational thinking!

I think CJ was raised on Sam Cooke rather than James Cook...

Don't know much about history

Don't know much biology

Don't know much about a science book

Don't know much about the french I took

Hmm, well I have to admit three of those four apply to me just as equally!

 

[CJSF]

Just an idea, you understand, but is it possible that everything sounds a bit better because connections have been taken apart and put together again, thereby cleaning all the contact surfaces? Not wishing to start the whole cable debate for the umpteenth time, but there are audible effects from the most unlikely sources. I recently listened to a demo of the Dragonfly DAC. That was exciting, but what was truly mystifying was the effect of a 'better' CAT 7 cable between the external hard drive and the Macbook Pro being used as a music server. I have long been convinced of the benefits of good interconnects and speaker cable, but data transfer, No. However, I listened and the music got more real and the Audioquest cable is pretty cheap anyway, so it is on my shopping list. I cannot logically account for why it should have an effect, but it did and at under £30 I will be giving it a go.

You may be right Trefor Patten, in fact it is a very good option to consider . . . What I find very difficult is the 'its impossible' view . . . something is possible cos I and Hazel have heard it . . . the same as back in the 80's, I was put down over filled stands, I knew what I could do and proved it in countless demonstrations, now, 20 years on . . . 'of course filled stands should be considered'!!!! :doh:

The same applies here, I hear what I hear, as ever, trust my ears, same as the TT last year, I pushed on despite being advised it was not good enough to be worth the effort, 'stick to plug and play', it was and is. The difference in this case with the hub, I dont have an explanation, the cable connection might be an answer? However, it does not answer the slow 'run in' type improvement over the past few days? The only thing to change was the new Virgin hub, everything else was re used.

I wonder if anyone has tried disconnecting their hub and reconnecting it?

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc

At what again? Injecting some facts into the discussion? Curse my damn fool rational thinking!

I think CJ was raised on Sam Cooke rather than James Cook...

Don't know much about history

Don't know much biology

Don't know much about a science book

Don't know much about the french I took

Very true Chebby, one does not need to know much to understand the basics. Basics being, I hear what I hear, however, I am actually say, I dont understand why this should be? Have you got an explanation, other than, it is impossible?

CJSF

 

[chebby]

Have you got an explanation, other than, it is impossible?

CJSF

Gave mine on page one...

Maybe the knowledge that your music (or The Archers or whatever) isn't suddenly going to stall at any random moment - a regular pre-upgrade event according to CJ - means finally being able to relax and enjoy without annoying distraction (or anticipation of the next glitch).

Lack of annoying distraction (constant buffering) enables one to concentrate and engage with the material rather than the failings of transmission.

I'd be suprised if it didn't sound better.

As I said, knowing you can now relax and enjoy the material (without constantly anticipating regular buffering or drop-outs) is going to make it sound better.

 

[CJSF]

Have you got an explanation, other than, it is impossible?

CJSF

Gave mine on page one...

Maybe the knowledge that your music (or The Archers or whatever) isn't suddenly going to stall at any random moment - a regular pre-upgrade event according to CJ - means finally being able to relax and enjoy without annoying distraction (or anticipation of the next glitch).

Lack of annoying distraction (constant buffering) enables one to concentrate and engage with the material rather than the failings of transmission.

I'd be suprised if it didn't sound better.

As I said, knowing you can now relax and enjoy the material (without constantly anticipating regular buffering or drop-outs) is going to make it sound better.

The only time I have experienced or worried about buffering or drop out was when listening/watching BBC iPlayer . . . iPlayer, I do not consider it to be hifi, just irritates me when I'm trying to watch the current F1 race on a Sunday evening:wall: . . . as I say has nothing to do with hifi, although the spoken word on radio should be considered?

What I am hearing on Spotify which comes via the new 'Virgin Hub' is something again, thats where my ears are telling me something has happened?

CJSF

 

[Xanderzdad]

Do you have error correction turned on?

Yes - everything exactly as before. Presumably the new drive is making a more accurate rip. It has not produced a single error whereas the old drive produced tracks with clicks and beeps occasionally. The old drive must have 'interpreted' some of the data in creating the rip.

 

[Xanderzdad]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

Afraid you are at it again The_Lhc . . . the earth was considered flat by many seafarers . . . a long time ago. There was a program on TV last night, in eighteen hundred and something, a scientist put forward that everything is made of atoms, no one believed him . . . we dont even question it these days . . . and then there is evolution, the earth is only 10,000 years old, they said . . . need I go on?

People often see things long before science and gurus proves the point. Been there myself, heavy or loaded stands dont work . . . they said . . . its the norm to recommend filling as an option these days, you can even buy 'wiz-bag proper filling' made for the job (of parting you from your cash) . 8)

Just my humble opinion of course . . . CJSF

My point was merely with regard to peoples beliefs and stating opinion (informed or otherwise) as if it were fact. People are allowed their own opinion...

 

[The_Lhc]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

My point was merely with regard to peoples beliefs and stating opinion (informed or otherwise) as if it were fact. People are allowed their own opinion...

But if that opinion is demonstrably wrong it should be challenged. You have the right to believe whatever you like, but you don't have the right to have that belief respected if it is clearly and demonstrably nonsense. And I'm only referring to the flat earth comment here incidentally, I'm deliberately and carefully not getting involved in the main discussion (ie I'm not making any comment on what you believe you heard CJSF, so put the horse back in the tall stable if you'd be so good...).

 

[CJSF]

THE END . . . :wave: CJSF

 

[cheeseboy]

Have you got an explanation, other than, it is impossible?

CJSF

did you actually read what I posted?? I've given you an explantion as to what has happened....

 

[CJSF]

Have you got an explanation, other than, it is impossible?

CJSF

did you actually read what I posted?? I've given you an explantion as to what has happened....

Yes I did Cheeseboy, and I have re read it . . . makes sens, especialy the BBC iplayer. Spotify I'm not sure, I only pay £5 for the Unlimited service which I thought was low bit rate? I'm old, I dont understand this modern digital stuff, I'm a 'hands on' flat earther:?

. . . The old modem was not working properly? The new one is up to spec., and has a positive affect on all that pass through it? :dance:

CJSF

 

[Macspur]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

My point was merely with regard to peoples beliefs and stating opinion (informed or otherwise) as if it were fact. People are allowed their own opinion...

But if that opinion is demonstrably wrong it should be challenged. You have the right to believe whatever you like, but you don't have the right to have that belief respected if it is clearly and demonstrably nonsense. And I'm only referring to the flat earth comment here incidentally, I'm deliberately and carefully not getting involved in the main discussion

In that case, with all due respect, you might be better off posting on another type of forum.

 

[The_Lhc]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

My point was merely with regard to peoples beliefs and stating opinion (informed or otherwise) as if it were fact. People are allowed their own opinion...

But if that opinion is demonstrably wrong it should be challenged. You have the right to believe whatever you like, but you don't have the right to have that belief respected if it is clearly and demonstrably nonsense. And I'm only referring to the flat earth comment here incidentally, I'm deliberately and carefully not getting involved in the main discussion

In that case, with all due respect, you might be better off posting on another type of forum.

Really? Why? Have we outlawed facts on here now?

 

[cheeseboy]

Yes I did Cheeseboy, and I have re read it . . . makes sens, especialy the BBC iplayer. Spotify I'm not sure, I only pay £5 for the Unlimited service which I thought was low bit rate? I'm old, I dont understand this modern digital stuff, I'm a 'hands on' flat earther:?

. . . The old modem was not working properly? The new one is up to spec., and has a positive affect on all that pass through it? :dance:

CJSF

if you pay for spotify, then you get the higher bitrate, not the lower one.

As I said, if you were having internet connection issues before, like iplayer buffering all the time, it was probably defaulting to the lower bit rate versions as they don't need as much bandwith, therefore less likely to give you buffering problems. Now you have a new box of tricks, everything is working at full speed, and the sites you connect to can detect this, so they will give you all the bells and whistles.

The upshot is that it will sound better

either way, and regardless of all the techno gubbins, just glad you can finally listen to stuff without it stopping

 

[Xanderzdad]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

My point was merely with regard to peoples beliefs and stating opinion (informed or otherwise) as if it were fact. People are allowed their own opinion...

But if that opinion is demonstrably wrong it should be challenged. You have the right to believe whatever you like, but you don't have the right to have that belief respected if it is clearly and demonstrably nonsense. And I'm only referring to the flat earth comment here incidentally, I'm deliberately and carefully not getting involved in the main discussion

In that case, with all due respect, you might be better off posting on another type of forum.

Really? Why? Have we outlawed facts on here now?

LHC if you are going to entirely miss my point (meant humorously originally but taken way, way too seriously by yourself) about opinions being OK and that sometimes 'facts' can change then here is somebody else's opinion contradicting your 'fact'. The 'Myth' only related to educated Europeans (in summary many people did believe the earth was flat but were eventually proved wrong). I think you may have taken your quote out of context without looking at the wider information:

The Flat Earth model is an archaic belief that the Earth's shape is a plane or disk. Most ancient cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD) and China until the 17th century. It was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and a flat Earth domed by thefirmament in the shape of an inverted bowl is common in pre-scientific societies.[1] The Jewish conception of a flat earth is to be found in biblical as in post biblical times.[2][3][4]

The paradigm of a spherical Earth was developed in Greek astronomy, beginning with Pythagoras (6th century BC), although most Pre-Socratics retained the flat Earth model. Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.[5][6][7][8] The misconception that educated Europeans at the time ofColumbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as the "Myth of the Flat Earth".[9] In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history.[10]

 

[The_Lhc]

Bear in mind we used to think the earth was flat

You might have done but nobody else did, you can go back to the dawn of civilization on almost every continent and find contemporary scientists showing that the earth is a sphere using a variety of different methods. An ancient greek even made measurements to determine the circumference of the Earth and wasn't that far out.

I do wish people would stop using this a comparison, the only ignorance it demonstrates is their own.

My point was merely with regard to peoples beliefs and stating opinion (informed or otherwise) as if it were fact. People are allowed their own opinion...

But if that opinion is demonstrably wrong it should be challenged. You have the right to believe whatever you like, but you don't have the right to have that belief respected if it is clearly and demonstrably nonsense. And I'm only referring to the flat earth comment here incidentally, I'm deliberately and carefully not getting involved in the main discussion

In that case, with all due respect, you might be better off posting on another type of forum.

Really? Why? Have we outlawed facts on here now?

LHC if you are going to entirely miss my point (meant humorously originally but taken way, way too seriously by yourself) about opinions being OK and that sometimes 'facts' can change then here is somebody else's opinion contradicting your 'fact'. The 'Myth' only related to educated Europeans (in summary many people did believe the earth was flat but were eventually proved wrong). I think you may have taken your quote out of context without looking at the wider information:

The Flat Earth model is an archaic belief that the Earth's shape is a plane or disk. Most ancient cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD) and China until the 17th century. It was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and a flat Earth domed by thefirmament in the shape of an inverted bowl is common in pre-scientific societies.[1] The Jewish conception of a flat earth is to be found in biblical as in post biblical times.[2][3][4]

The paradigm of a spherical Earth was developed in Greek astronomy, beginning with Pythagoras (6th century BC), although most Pre-Socratics retained the flat Earth model. Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on.[5][6][7][8] The misconception that educated Europeans at the time ofColumbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as the "Myth of the Flat Earth".[9] In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history.[10]

Your point, as I saw it, is that "science" doesn't know everything but your ctrl-v above simply illustrates that the only cultures that believed in a flat earth were ones with no concept of scientific study, so it doesn't support your point at all.

 

[CJSF]

Yes I did Cheeseboy, and I have re read it . . . makes sens, especialy the BBC iplayer. Spotify I'm not sure, I only pay £5 for the Unlimited service which I thought was low bit rate? I'm old, I dont understand this modern digital stuff, I'm a 'hands on' flat earther:?

. . . The old modem was not working properly? The new one is up to spec., and has a positive affect on all that pass through it? :dance:

CJSF

if you pay for spotify, then you get the higher bitrate, not the lower one.

As I said, if you were having internet connection issues before, like iplayer buffering all the time, it was probably defaulting to the lower bit rate versions as they don't need as much bandwith, therefore less likely to give you buffering problems. Now you have a new box of tricks, everything is working at full speed, and the sites you connect to can detect this, so they will give you all the bells and whistles.

The upshot is that it will sound better

either way, and regardless of all the techno gubbins, just glad you can finally listen to stuff without it stopping

Thank you Cheeseboy, bring on the 'bells and whistles', Hazel and I enjoy our music even more now.

We had a great session yesterday, a lot of Spotify in the afternoon, then a session of comparisons and finaly a late evening of all vinyl. Horlicks hour, sounding particularly good last night . . . I maintain the mains in my area are much better after 12 midnight?

CJSF

 

[BenLaw]

Do you have error correction turned on?

Yes - everything exactly as before. Presumably the new drive is making a more accurate rip. It has not produced a single error whereas the old drive produced tracks with clicks and beeps occasionally. The old drive must have 'interpreted' some of the data in creating the rip.

Ok. Error correction ought to prevent that sort of thing, but it sounds like something was going wrong. From what you said earlier:

the rips I am now making are noticeably better sounding than those from my old PC

I got the impression you were talking about qualitative improvements in SQ. This is obviously rather different.

Given that your music is now free of 'clicks and beeps' I am not surprised that:

even my wife has noticed and she didn't know I had changed anything.