A new chapter.....

[davedotco]

... My budget is under £100 per component ...

As your budget is £100 per component does that mean £100 for the power amp and £100 for the speakers?

If so then you can cheat and get some £200 active speakers.

Like these...

http://www.thomann.de/gb/presonus_eris_5.htm

 

[steve_1979]

At £230 they're £30 over budget but I say go with the Yamaha HS5.

It'll be the best £30 you ever spend.

 

[steve_1979]

Another thing to bare in mind with the Nakamichi vs Teuful comparison.

The Nakamichi needs connecting to a TV to make use of its menus (it is possible to use the display on the front to work the menus but it takes a few goes with it connected to a TV to learn how to navigate the menus at first).

The Teuful has much simpler menus and doesn't require a TV at all.

 

[Gazzip]

Another thing to bare in mind with the Nakamichi vs Teuful comparison.

The Nakamichi needs connecting to a TV to make use of its menus (it is possible to use the display on the front to work the menus but it takes a few goes with it connected to a TV to learn how to navigate the menus at first).

The Teuful has much simpler menus and doesn't require a TV at all.

It has been 20 years since I owned a Nakamichi and having that name back in my rack again is surely worth a little bit of hassle. Also I have read somewhere that Nakamichi sell the internal electronic components found in the Dragon 7.1 on to other manufacturers, Emotiva to name but one.

This piece of kit could we'll be the real deal when it comes to defining a true HiFi bargain.

 

[Dave_]

Any thoughts on schitt audio? They do a passive pre-amp which looks to be reasonable value, although this may limit me to a dedicated power amp instead of active speakers due to the need to get some gain in to the chain ASAP.

I use a SYS with a pair Studiospares Seiwin 5As.

Compared to the cheaper fostex I was using previously, its a better looking, and a well built bit of kit that doesn't suffer with the channel imbalance issues I had with the fostex.

 

[davedotco]

It has been 20 years since I owned a Nakamichi and having that name back in my rack again is surely worth a little bit of hassle. Also I have read somewhere that Nakamichi sell the internal electronic components found in the Dragon 7.1 on to other manufacturers, Emotiva to name but one.

This piece of kit could we'll be the real deal when it comes to defining a true HiFi bargain.

They are a huge bargin for the quality on offer, as is the matching 7 channel power amp too. They only sell direct so cut out the mark up cost that a shop would add. If they were sold through shops you probably be looking at £400 or more.

The software is a bit clunky but it's there's an update coming for that soon (some users from the AVForum are beta testing it for them ATM). Nakamichi's customer service is very good too, they've been very comunicative with people on the AVForum and are keeping to their word about sorting out some issues that people had with their power amps.

Simple, single source systems of the type under consideration here can be very simple and cost effective.

Assuming a desktop or some sort of mobile computer as a source, all you need is a simple dac with the appropriate input, which you have I think.

Active speakers (steve's DM5 excepted) will usually have an input attenuator so there is no need for a volume control...... Computer > AEX/ATV (optional) > dac > active speakers is all you need. My AEX > dac > Seiwin actives cost less than £200 including cables.

Total simplicity and way better than you could reasonably expect for the outlay.

 

[matt49]

If the remit is to find the best system possible within budget, then I see the argument for actives.

if however the remit is to build a system that can be compared with the reference system, then surely actives miss the point. We know the one part of the budget system that won't get remotely near the reference system is the speakers. But the rest of a budget passive system could be swapped in to the reference system, making for a moderately interesting comparison. Actives will be less interesting from this perspective.

Or have I missed the point?

 

[Gazzip]

If the remit is to find the best system possible within budget, then I see the argument for actives.

if however the remit is to build a system that can be compared with the reference system, then surely actives miss the point. We know the one part of the budget system that won't get remotely near the reference system is the speakers. But the rest of a budget passive system could be swapped in to the reference system, making for a moderately interesting comparison. Actives will be less interesting from this perspective.

Or have I missed the point?

Matt, No you haven't missed the point but I may have strayed from my own self defined path. You are right so I guess for now I have to forget about the actives. I have ordered a couple of very basic components, about £26 total for a separate DAC and an active pre-amp. They should be with me this week so I will swap them in upon receipt and report back on my findings. I may also order the Schitt passive (pure curiosity) as well as the Nakamichi for good measure and then do a comparison of them all against my reference.

 

[matt49]

If the remit is to find the best system possible within budget, then I see the argument for actives.

if however the remit is to build a system that can be compared with the reference system, then surely actives miss the point. We know the one part of the budget system that won't get remotely near the reference system is the speakers. But the rest of a budget passive system could be swapped in to the reference system, making for a moderately interesting comparison. Actives will be less interesting from this perspective.

Or have I missed the point?

Matt, No you haven't missed the point but I may have strayed from my own self defined path. You are right so I guess for now I have to forget about the actives. I have ordered a couple of very basic components, about £26 total for a separate DAC and an active pre-amp. They should be with me this week so I will swap them in upon receipt and report back on my findings. I may also order the Schitt passive (pure curiosity) as well as the Nakamichi for good measure and then do a comparison of them all against my reference.

OK, good to know I wasn't talking Schiit.

For a power amp, is the Behringer A500 on your radar? It'd be interesting to see how it'd drive your PMCs.

As far as speakers are concerned, I'm at a complete loss.

 

[steve_1979]

It has been 20 years since I owned a Nakamichi and having that name back in my rack again is surely worth a little bit of hassle. Also I have read somewhere that Nakamichi sell the internal electronic components found in the Dragon 7.1 on to other manufacturers, Emotiva to name but one.

This piece of kit could we'll be the real deal when it comes to defining a true HiFi bargain.

They are a huge bargin for the quality on offer, as is the matching 7 channel power amp too. They only sell direct so cut out the mark up cost that a shop would add. If they were sold through shops you probably be looking at £400 or more.

The software is a bit clunky but there's an update coming for that soon (some users from the AVForum are beta testing it for them ATM). Nakamichi's customer service is very good too, they've been very comunicative with people on the AVForum and are keeping to their word about sorting out some issues that people had with their power amps.

 

[Gazzip]

For a power amp, is the Behringer A500 on your radar? It'd be interesting to see how it'd drive your PMCs.

As far as speakers are concerned, I'm at a complete loss.

Yes, the PA/DJ amplifier market was my first port of call. Believe it or not the A500 was already ordered before I read your post! £145 from Amazon and from what I have read it is a whole bag of power amplifier for the money with a completely flat frequency response. Also good to note that they can be run in bridged mode should I want more power. Class A/B output too!

I have of course exceeded my component budget by £45 but this can be clawed back by making savings on the pre-amp and DAC. In fact as the Behringer has independent channel gain controls I could theoretically ditch the pre-amp but I think that volume adjustment and balancing could prove to be a right pain going forwards. Also a like-for-like with my reference (which is my brief) needs to be remote controlled which brings me back to the Nakamichi. However this would not allow me to claw back the £45 overspend because it is £199. This is difficult!

Matching the speakers at this price point is of course the biggest challenge here. I suspect that I may have to look at studio monitors backed up by a sub?

 

[ellisdj]

Interesting thread this - this is the cheapest speakers richer sounds sell that are branded

Cant see these being much cop but they are branded

 

[Gazzip]

Crikey! That is incredible value for money!

EDIT: £342 shipped to the UK so £200 (£100 DAC + £100 PreAmp) budget blown unfortunately. Still cracking value!

A £200 DAC/pre? That'll be the Nakamichi Dragon AV1 Processor.

http://www.nakamichi.co.uk/products/nakamichi-7-1-power-processor

Hi Steve,

Job done. Order placed this morning! How long did it take for you to receive your unit?

 

[steve_1979]

Crikey! That is incredible value for money!

EDIT: £342 shipped to the UK so £200 (£100 DAC + £100 PreAmp) budget blown unfortunately. Still cracking value!

A £200 DAC/pre? That'll be the Nakamichi Dragon AV1 Processor.

http://www.nakamichi.co.uk/products/nakamichi-7-1-power-processor

Hi Steve,

Job done. Order placed this morning! How long did it take for you to receive your unit?

It took about four days but I did order mine late at night on a Friday so it wasn't shipped until the following Monday.

 

[Gazzip]

New toys to play with this weekend. I am going to start with the (£6) DAC direct in to the (£145) Behringer A500 using the independent channel gain level controls as volume control. Then the same DAC in to the Behringer via the (£21) Line5 pre-amp to provide a single pot volume control and switchable sources. Finally I will trial the (£199) Nakamichi which most closely matches my current main systems functionality (fully balanced; integrated DAC; remote control).

For now the front end source will remain my Moon Mind 180 network player and the speakers my BB5SE's.

Will report back with initial thoughts when I have found the time to plug it all in and fire her up!

 

[steve_1979]

That looks like fun. I look forward to reading your findings.

 

[Gazzip]

That looks like fun. I look forward to reading your findings.

Cheers Steve. The Nakamichi is quite extraordinary in terms of features for under £200 don't you think? Very well made too! Really, really hoping that the SQ lives up to the physical package.

 

[steve_1979]

That looks like fun. I look forward to reading your findings.

Cheers Steve. The Nakamichi is quite extraordinary in terms of features for under £200 don't you think? Very well made too! Really, really hoping that the SQ lives up to the physical package.

It certainly has plenty of features, but then so do most AV receivers nowadays. One aspect that I particularly like are the subwoofer integration features which allow for 5Hz crossover steps and a choice of either 12dB or 24dB crossover slopes. The software isn't the slickest that I've used but it works well enough and there are firmware updates on the way to sort out the few minor bugs that it has.

It's very well made for the price too and feels like it should cost several times more than it does. Have you switched it on yet? It looks rather snazzy (in a classy understated way) when it lights up.

Nakamichi's customer service is A1 too. They've been very friendly and helpful when sorting out issues on the AVForum where several members have bought them.

 

[davedotco]

Be interesting to see what you find.

Just a thought but there are reports about that suggest that the SQ of the A500 is dependent on the settings of the onboard level controls with a noticeable improvement with them up full.

Not something that I have tried myself but it seems to confirm other suggestions that I have heard that bthe A500 is at its best when driven quite hard.

 

[Vladimir]

*clapping*

 

[wilro15]

WHF gave the Nakamichi pair only 3/5 stars, so will be interesting to see what you make of the Pre. Although WHF also said the pair cost £900, whereas it is actually £600 (exc postage).

 

[Vladimir]

I like Steve's logic. It's basically an AVR without the amplifier section. You can buy a fully featured Denon AVR for around 200 quid, so the Nakamichi is not that terribly cheap. I think it's right on the mark with its price. Of course us audiophiles are used to paying 200 quid for speaker cables, so the Dragon seems like too good to be true.

 

[Gazzip]

I like Steve's logic. It's basically an AVR without the amplifier section. You can buy a fully featured Denon AVR for around 200 quid, so the Nakamichi is not that terribly cheap. I think it's right on the mark with its price. Of course us audiophiles are used to paying 200 quid for speaker cables, so the Dragon seems like too good to be true.

It is the fully balanced design of the Nakamichi that for me makes it stand apart from most of the opposition in this price bracket. Great for me because my rack is approx 5m (8m of interconnect) away from my speakers and power amps. Also great if your preference is active speakers I would have thought.

 

[Gazzip]

Be interesting to see what you find.

Just a thought but there are reports about that suggest that the SQ of the A500 is dependent on the settings of the onboard level controls with a noticeable improvement with them up full.

Not something that I have tried myself but it seems to confirm other suggestions that I have heard that bthe A500 is at its best when driven quite hard.

Thanks for the heads up. Obviously only applicable with a pre-amp in the chain! *good*

 

[Gazzip]

WHF gave the Nakamichi pair only 3/5 stars, so will be interesting to see what you make of the Pre. Although WHF also said the pair cost £900, whereas it is actually £600 (exc postage).

We shall see. I am going in to this with no preconceptions (have not read any official reviews of the Nak save for those on forums) but fingers crossed.