MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
rainsoothe said:
Hi rainsoothe
Thanks for your reply.
Given your existing listening levels with the 602 S3's, the RA-1520 should still have more then sufficient power left under the bonnet to fulfill your requirements when partnered with SCM11 monitors.
SCM11 monitors have a benign load which (as with all other Entry Series monitors) doesn't go lower then 5.5 ohms. So as long as an amplifier (such as the RA-1520) has sufficient quality of power and (depending what peak listening levels are to be) quantity of power then it will be fine. The impedence of a speaker is far more important.
ATC drive units are very constant thereby allowing an amplifier to give it's full power all the time (prior to clipping). You could have some efficient speakers that have an impedence that could drop to low levels such as 2 ohms. At this level some amplifiers will struggle and will not provide sufficient power or even give no power at all.
Like i said there is no bloom, gloom, boom or bling with SCM11's. The ATC's instead impress by stepping out of the way as much as possible. The sound is just 'there'
Btw, please contact Studio Hi-Fi in Bulgaria and hopefully they can help you with ATC's.
60 Bigla Str.
Sofia 1164
Bulgaria
tel. fax: 00 359 2 962 02 22
mobile phone.: 00 359 887 702 703
http://www.studio-hifi.com
info@studio-hifi.com
skype: vbstudiohifi
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
rainsoothe said:thank you very very much for your effort, i will be giving them a ring
Hi rainsoothe
Your welcome.
Btw, you might find this http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/downloads/CompanyProfile.pdf useful.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi said:Naah, if he does that, it means no one else can use it. That'd be counter-productive
You seem concerned :shhh:
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
I think you understood my initial point very well and responded accordingly
Anyway let's see.huh?
still waiting for the other (identical) apartment i'm moving to to be cleared, that's when i'm planning to audition the stuff i can audition so I don't have to remove cables several times. I'm most likely going the Spendor/Xtz/Kef R300 route (for auditioning at least). I will update you on my decision and impressions when I'm done with the whole shebang and I can have a proper audition in my home.
- is the Spendor SA1 sound close to the ATC SCM11? Or how is it different? (roughly, so I know if i can get an idea about the ATC's just by listening to the Spendors)
- i'm gonna budget for a DAC too, with a couple questions:
1. would a VDAC II suffice considering I'm only going to use it to decode music from my PC, so, most likely, I won't be using two thousand inputs available on pricier DACs? As in is the sound of a more expensive dac is better then (for example) VDAC or HRT Music Streamer? Or is it mainly the better options on higher priced DAC's? (I think I already know the answer to this one, but I'm just checking, maybe I'm wrong and I can save some money ^^)
2. would Audiolab M-DAC sound too bright with my Rotel and my favourite canditates - the Spendor/ATC/XTZ/KEF speakers? I mean what would be a better fit for my future system between Musical Fidelity M1 DAC, Audiolab M-Dac and Rega DAC?
I know I'm supposed to audition them together, but that would only be possible with the Rega/Spendor combo. The XTZ dealer has no DACs i'm interested in, and the Audiolab I can only find in a studio gear shop. And dealers here don't offer home trials, so...
thanks
still waiting for the other (identical) apartment i'm moving to to be cleared, that's when i'm planning to audition the stuff i can audition so I don't have to remove cables several times. I'm most likely going the Spendor/Xtz/Kef R300 route (for auditioning at least). I will update you on my decision and impressions when I'm done with the whole shebang and I can have a proper audition in my home.
- is the Spendor SA1 sound close to the ATC SCM11? Or how is it different? (roughly, so I know if i can get an idea about the ATC's just by listening to the Spendors)
- i'm gonna budget for a DAC too, with a couple questions:
1. would a VDAC II suffice considering I'm only going to use it to decode music from my PC, so, most likely, I won't be using two thousand inputs available on pricier DACs? As in is the sound of a more expensive dac is better then (for example) VDAC or HRT Music Streamer? Or is it mainly the better options on higher priced DAC's? (I think I already know the answer to this one, but I'm just checking, maybe I'm wrong and I can save some money ^^)
2. would Audiolab M-DAC sound too bright with my Rotel and my favourite canditates - the Spendor/ATC/XTZ/KEF speakers? I mean what would be a better fit for my future system between Musical Fidelity M1 DAC, Audiolab M-Dac and Rega DAC?
I know I'm supposed to audition them together, but that would only be possible with the Rega/Spendor combo. The XTZ dealer has no DACs i'm interested in, and the Audiolab I can only find in a studio gear shop. And dealers here don't offer home trials, so...
thanks
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi rainsoothe
Sorry but i don't understand - huh?
Anyway, i feel you need to look speakers that minimize or are devoid of a lean and upfront mid/HF character.
As for DAC's i think you're on the right track Rega's DAC.
Btw, any joy with Studio Hi-Fi?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Sorry but i don't understand - huh?
Anyway, i feel you need to look speakers that minimize or are devoid of a lean and upfront mid/HF character.
As for DAC's i think you're on the right track Rega's DAC.
Btw, any joy with Studio Hi-Fi?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
the "huh" was about your exchange with David, nevermind that
I haven't contacted Studio Hi-Fi just yet, I've been busy with some family stuff the past week. I'll let you know as soon as I have any updates.
thank you
I haven't contacted Studio Hi-Fi just yet, I've been busy with some family stuff the past week. I'll let you know as soon as I have any updates.
thank you
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
rainsoothe said:the "huh" was about your exchange with David, nevermind that
I haven't contacted Studio Hi-Fi just yet, I've been busy with some family stuff the past week. I'll let you know as soon as I have any updates.
thank you
Hi rainsoothe
Thanks for your reply.
I understand
Well it looks like i didn't have to wait too long. I feel Larry Cox will be honoured Anyway l hope that Studio Hi-Fi will be able to assist you.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT said:BenLaw said:MUSICRAFT said:
+1 for ATC SCM11s btw
Hi Ben
I think i should Copyright this
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
I think the " bling" at the end doesn't quite work , maybe you need to find another word ending in " oom" ? ! ? " "zoom" or " doom" ?
+1 for the SCM 11s .
Hi, small update time
I'm auditioning the Spendora SA1 and some Kef speaker (probably Q300 but I'm hoping for R300) through Rega Dac on Friday, and also XTZ 99.26 mk I with Marantz CD 6004 or a Creek CD player at another dealer. I'll let you know how it went.
@ Rick - I contacted Sudio Hi-Fi, and the guy there (Tim is his name) has been nice and helpful. Unfortunately they dont have the SCM11's in stock at the moment, but i've asked him to let me know when they recieve a new batch, as Sofia is pretty close to Bucharest and a trip to there is not out of the question (since home demoing is ). I will update you if i stuck to one of the brands I auditioned or if i'm waiting to check out the ATCs.
--------------
My current DAC options are Rega (from what I can audition), Musical Fidelity V-DAC II + PSU and Audiolab M-DAC. Unfortunately I can't demo the latter two in showrooms, and I can only have a week trial with Audiolab but some time later, as they will only have it in stock in a week or two. Personal opinions about these dacs would be lovely - as I understand the Rega is pretty close to what I'm looking for, but I'm put off by the fact that it's USB port can only do 16 bit, and adding something like the V-Link II would overshoot even the Audiolab M-DAC price, and V-DAC II + PSU + V-Link II would be cheaper then Rega - and I'm not interested in the extra inputs and outputs on the DAC's, i just want a sound with nice 3-d soundstage, tight bass, warmish, smooth, not boomy and not bright. If anyone has heard any or several of these dac's through rotel and the afore-mentioned speakers, lemme know what you thought.
Thanks
I'm auditioning the Spendora SA1 and some Kef speaker (probably Q300 but I'm hoping for R300) through Rega Dac on Friday, and also XTZ 99.26 mk I with Marantz CD 6004 or a Creek CD player at another dealer. I'll let you know how it went.
@ Rick - I contacted Sudio Hi-Fi, and the guy there (Tim is his name) has been nice and helpful. Unfortunately they dont have the SCM11's in stock at the moment, but i've asked him to let me know when they recieve a new batch, as Sofia is pretty close to Bucharest and a trip to there is not out of the question (since home demoing is
). I will update you if i stuck to one of the brands I auditioned or if i'm waiting to check out the ATCs.--------------
My current DAC options are Rega (from what I can audition), Musical Fidelity V-DAC II + PSU and Audiolab M-DAC. Unfortunately I can't demo the latter two in showrooms, and I can only have a week trial with Audiolab but some time later, as they will only have it in stock in a week or two. Personal opinions about these dacs would be lovely - as I understand the Rega is pretty close to what I'm looking for, but I'm put off by the fact that it's USB port can only do 16 bit, and adding something like the V-Link II would overshoot even the Audiolab M-DAC price, and V-DAC II + PSU + V-Link II would be cheaper then Rega - and I'm not interested in the extra inputs and outputs on the DAC's, i just want a sound with nice 3-d soundstage, tight bass, warmish, smooth, not boomy and not bright. If anyone has heard any or several of these dac's through rotel and the afore-mentioned speakers, lemme know what you thought.
Thanks
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
ok, results are in for the listening test on friday, in case anyone is still following this thread and needs the tips.
I auditioned Spendor SA1, Kef R300 and XTZ 99.25 (mk I).
There was a problem with the spendors, as in the right channel sounded feint - i dont know if it was that the right speaker had a problem, or something with my amp (faulty or not capable of driving both - although WHF said they could drive the SA1 with Rotel RA 04 SE, so that shouldn't be it). As I could not audition them properly, I cant give any impressions, but I could feel from the music that the box was small.
Next were the KEF R300 - the mids and highs sounded great for me (the trebble was both very clear and smooth), but the room at the dealer was pretty crappy set up so some of the bass was resonating off the walls, and also i found the bass was pretty... subdued? I "dunno". Also, the pair I auditioned only had about 1 hour of prior use, so that might have also worked against the speaker's bass, which was almost missing in action at some points and frequencies, even after half an hour.
I auditioned the KEFs through both Rega DAC and Musical Fidelity M1 A. The Rega had indeed a nice sound, but it was too much on the fuzzy side for me. Therefore, I am now the proud owner of a Musical Fidelity M1 A Dac - and I can say the improvement to my system is pretty big, and after 4 hours of listening, it has already improved. Very nice DAC (I know, my experience is non-existant, but I just love how it sounds - it's smooth, detailed and very musical at the same time). By the way, the MF dac does not actually have an A at the end on the logo - in case anyone wants to get one and expects to see it like I did
After this I went to the other dealer (the guy with XTZ's) and he only had XTZ 99.25 mk I. I already liked it more then the KEF - granted, this here pair was burnt in and in a slightly better set up room - but I felt it was much better then the KEF R300 - at least for my tastes. I also thought they had a bigger soundstage - they were a bit dry at first, but after 20 minutes of work and a ciggarette break, they warmed up. Also I could test them up against a wall, to simmulate my home positioning as much as possible, and I think I'm going to go for the XTZ 99.26 mk II - piano, since I understand that their newer crossover makes them sound even better. Also their tweakability is great for me (besides bungs for the rear ported bass, you can adjust the treble via supplied jumpers to either +2 db, -2 db and -4 db) - I found -2db trebble and bungs out to give the best sound. They are warmish and smooth, not "in your face type" (well the trebble can be a bit extended, but i suspect my Rotel for that, since auditioning XTZ with Creek or XTZ amp didn't yield such extended treble) - so seting up the trebble at -2db solved that for me.
Now it's time to wait for payday
Anyway, I can strongly recommend the XTZ brand, at least with my Rotel, and also with Creek Evolution 2 and XTZ Class A 100D3 amp (which would've been my first option soundwise, but the Rotel had the perfect combination of features for me - headphones, tone adjustment for keeping neighbours happy and it occupies less space, which is kind of a big deal).
The dealer also said that the XTZ's are priced quite a bit lower then they're worth, but that might have just been dealer-man-uber-sweettalk All I know is that I just forgot to search for details and was enjoying the music at the demo. And after all I guess that's what it's all about, isn't it?
Thanks for the great help everyone provided.
Conclusion for lazy readers:
For now, my mind is set for XTZ 99.26 mk II.
I auditioned Spendor SA1, Kef R300 and XTZ 99.25 (mk I).
There was a problem with the spendors, as in the right channel sounded feint - i dont know if it was that the right speaker had a problem, or something with my amp (faulty or not capable of driving both - although WHF said they could drive the SA1 with Rotel RA 04 SE, so that shouldn't be it). As I could not audition them properly, I cant give any impressions, but I could feel from the music that the box was small.
Next were the KEF R300 - the mids and highs sounded great for me (the trebble was both very clear and smooth), but the room at the dealer was pretty crappy set up so some of the bass was resonating off the walls, and also i found the bass was pretty... subdued? I "dunno". Also, the pair I auditioned only had about 1 hour of prior use, so that might have also worked against the speaker's bass, which was almost missing in action at some points and frequencies, even after half an hour.
I auditioned the KEFs through both Rega DAC and Musical Fidelity M1 A. The Rega had indeed a nice sound, but it was too much on the fuzzy side for me. Therefore, I am now the proud owner of a Musical Fidelity M1 A Dac - and I can say the improvement to my system is pretty big, and after 4 hours of listening, it has already improved. Very nice DAC (I know, my experience is non-existant, but I just love how it sounds - it's smooth, detailed and very musical at the same time). By the way, the MF dac does not actually have an A at the end on the logo - in case anyone wants to get one and expects to see it like I did
After this I went to the other dealer (the guy with XTZ's) and he only had XTZ 99.25 mk I. I already liked it more then the KEF - granted, this here pair was burnt in and in a slightly better set up room - but I felt it was much better then the KEF R300 - at least for my tastes. I also thought they had a bigger soundstage - they were a bit dry at first, but after 20 minutes of work and a ciggarette break, they warmed up. Also I could test them up against a wall, to simmulate my home positioning as much as possible, and I think I'm going to go for the XTZ 99.26 mk II - piano, since I understand that their newer crossover makes them sound even better. Also their tweakability is great for me (besides bungs for the rear ported bass, you can adjust the treble via supplied jumpers to either +2 db, -2 db and -4 db) - I found -2db trebble and bungs out to give the best sound. They are warmish and smooth, not "in your face type" (well the trebble can be a bit extended, but i suspect my Rotel for that, since auditioning XTZ with Creek or XTZ amp didn't yield such extended treble) - so seting up the trebble at -2db solved that for me.
Now it's time to wait for payday
Anyway, I can strongly recommend the XTZ brand, at least with my Rotel, and also with Creek Evolution 2 and XTZ Class A 100D3 amp (which would've been my first option soundwise, but the Rotel had the perfect combination of features for me - headphones, tone adjustment for keeping neighbours happy and it occupies less space, which is kind of a big deal).
The dealer also said that the XTZ's are priced quite a bit lower then they're worth, but that might have just been dealer-man-uber-sweettalk
All I know is that I just forgot to search for details and was enjoying the music at the demo. And after all I guess that's what it's all about, isn't it?Thanks for the great help everyone provided.
Conclusion for lazy readers:
For now, my mind is set for XTZ 99.26 mk II.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
The R300's take time to settle in, and like most speakers will need a good 50 hours (roughly) to come properly on song.
The SA1's need something a little better than an RA04 (as good as it is) in order to sound as good as they should do too. If you have an RA1520 amplifier, then these speakers should be auditioned with it, and ideally, all in the same place as all rooms will be different. What you have so far, is a very rough idea of how these speakers sound, but no idea of their capabilities.
The SA1's need something a little better than an RA04 (as good as it is) in order to sound as good as they should do too. If you have an RA1520 amplifier, then these speakers should be auditioned with it, and ideally, all in the same place as all rooms will be different. What you have so far, is a very rough idea of how these speakers sound, but no idea of their capabilities.
hello
I DID audition to the SA1's with my amp, i just said that WHF test team could drive them (ofc not good, but they said even that worked) with the 04. Actually I auditioned them all with my amp, I spent something like 2 hours with the KEFs and the same ammount with the XTZ.
And of course, I agree and understand, best way to do it would be with products that have had some hours on them, and home audition would be ideal. Unfortunately, in Bucharest, the capital city of my beloved country, there's a grand total of 4 SMALL dealers, and of course none offer home demo-ing and stuff like that - they don't even have most of their products in store, for instance, the PMC dealer said they would love to have demo PMC's in store, but because the market here is pretty under-developed most people buying things that are more consumer oriented, PMC won't send demo speakers. That's all the options I can work with. It's either that or visiting another country, and even the cost of that would be better spent (imho) on a higher class pair of speakers, or better interconnects, you name it. Also, knowing the nice friendly romanian customs people, taking my amp abroad would be too big of a hassle.
So, as you can see, my hands are pretty tied considering my options... Do you think the XTZ's are that bad/much worse then the KEF's or something? I'm asking because I genuinly don't know what to do given the circumstances.
I DID audition to the SA1's with my amp, i just said that WHF test team could drive them (ofc not good, but they said even that worked) with the 04. Actually I auditioned them all with my amp, I spent something like 2 hours with the KEFs and the same ammount with the XTZ.
And of course, I agree and understand, best way to do it would be with products that have had some hours on them, and home audition would be ideal. Unfortunately, in Bucharest, the capital city of my beloved country, there's a grand total of 4 SMALL dealers, and of course none offer home demo-ing and stuff like that - they don't even have most of their products in store, for instance, the PMC dealer said they would love to have demo PMC's in store, but because the market here is pretty under-developed most people buying things that are more consumer oriented, PMC won't send demo speakers. That's all the options I can work with. It's either that or visiting another country, and even the cost of that would be better spent (imho) on a higher class pair of speakers, or better interconnects, you name it. Also, knowing the nice friendly romanian customs people, taking my amp abroad would be too big of a hassle.
So, as you can see, my hands are pretty tied considering my options... Do you think the XTZ's are that bad/much worse then the KEF's or something? I'm asking because I genuinly don't know what to do given the circumstances.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi rainsoothe
If you can't wait or are unable to audition ATC's SCM11 monitors then as you've enjoyed the performance of the XTZ speakers the most and also given the speakers positioning in relation to your room i'll recommend that you play it safe and go for these
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
If you can't wait or are unable to audition ATC's SCM11 monitors then as you've enjoyed the performance of the XTZ speakers the most and also given the speakers positioning in relation to your room i'll recommend that you play it safe and go for these
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
rainsoothe said:
Yep, you are in quite a pickle!
Its not that I think the XTZ's won't be as good - I can't say that as I've only heard them at a hi-fi show, which isn't ideal. I just feel that any speakers you do try should have a fair crack of the whip. It is good that you were able to use your own amplification, as you have to know how the speaker in question will work with that amp, and if the amp is man enough for them. If you don't hear these speakers properly, it is only yourself that loses out in the end
Hi rainsoothe, I meant to reply here on Saturday but it slipped my mind. I'd just like to say that I've enjoyed reading about your dilemma, it sure doesn't look like it's easy to demo stuff in Romania , but you've done the right thing and have somehow managed to demo some great speakers with your gutsy Rotel amp, and you've found that you much prefer the XTZ's. I do hope you enjoy them and please come back and let us all know how you're getting on with them once they're set up in your home 8)
, but you've done the right thing and have somehow managed to demo some great speakers with your gutsy Rotel amp, and you've found that you much prefer the XTZ's. I do hope you enjoy them and please come back and let us all know how you're getting on with them once they're set up in your home 8)
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram