I am making my first foray in to the world of stored digital music, having ripped all my cds and joined B&W's Society of Sound. I am about to lash out on a complete re-build of both my AV and Hi*Fi setups but was hoping for some help (pre-audition) of something along the lines of the Audiolab 8200 vs rDAC/Marantz CD6003 or Yamaha S500 equivalent; I'm guessing that the CD player would sound better through an external DAC than onboard and that the two alternative possibilities would be of similar end sound quality, any help on the subject would be great.
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£700 CD Player or rDAC and £3 to £400 CD Player?
- Thread starter rascal6000
- Start date
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
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Audiolab do claim that the 8200's DAC is of extremely high quality, and not normally found in CD players at this price point. Although I haven't yet had a chance to compare it directly to others at it's price point yet, it's an excellent performer, and makes a great value system along with it's matching 8200a amplifier.
With the way things are going... I would suggest either getting a dedicated DAC and CD transport or a CDP with "DAC in" such the Audiolab.
I have just ordered a Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 (terrible name. great DAC!) for this very purpose. I see the future in hi-res files streamed to dedicated DACs. I have a lot of CDs though and my wife particularly likes to just put a CD on rather than go through J River MC, so having a transport still makes a lot of sense.
Just my 2 cents,
D
I have just ordered a Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 (terrible name. great DAC!) for this very purpose. I see the future in hi-res files streamed to dedicated DACs. I have a lot of CDs though and my wife particularly likes to just put a CD on rather than go through J River MC, so having a transport still makes a lot of sense.
Just my 2 cents,
D
Al ears
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2008
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I would have to concur with 'eternaloptimist'.
Streaming is the way things are going and a good quality external DAC is the way to go, not necessarily the rDAC. No doubt in the future more CD players will be manufactured with hi-quality internal DACs and more inputs but at the moment its external DAC all the way.
Streaming is the way things are going and a good quality external DAC is the way to go, not necessarily the rDAC. No doubt in the future more CD players will be manufactured with hi-quality internal DACs and more inputs but at the moment its external DAC all the way.
from what i understand the a-synchronous clocking system in the rdac is what makes it quite good. I think to get the major benefit from this you would be better off loading your cds onto a computer and streaming it to the rdac's wireless dongle (rwave i think) which from what i read still activates the clocking feature.
thats not to say that a diff dac would sound better with a transport... but i believe this is the case with the rdac.
any one care to correct me if im wrong?
thats not to say that a diff dac would sound better with a transport... but i believe this is the case with the rdac.
any one care to correct me if im wrong?
My iTunes via Beresford DAC matches my K2 CD player which is supposed to have a pretty good built in DAC. With that in mind, I would question paying more than £200 for a CD transport (if at all) and would suggest adding the balance to a better DAC or pocket money
I think the future is PC/download/stream and as such a K2 player may be on ebay soon.
I think the future is PC/download/stream and as such a K2 player may be on ebay soon.
If you were to go down the DAC route I would be surprised if you needed to spend £400 on a CD player. In my system I have an old Arcam CD82 (from ebay approx £150) going via digital coax to the DAC in my amp. There is little to no difference between the sound from the CD player and the sound from my Mac mini. Theyre both equally good!
Why not consider a new DAC and a second hand reasonably priced CD player?
Why not consider a new DAC and a second hand reasonably priced CD player?
Thank you all for your thoughts; actually not what I expected to hear, the 'take the emphasis away from the cd player' idea. I will still play cds and presumed they will still marginally outperform my ALAC files (although not my 24 bit FLACs).
I am still keen to know which DAC will perform better for cds ie on or off board (see my original post), can anyone quantify this eg the stereo sound from a £500 AV reciever equates to a stereo dedicated amp to the value of closer to £200?
Again thanks for the help.
I am still keen to know which DAC will perform better for cds ie on or off board (see my original post), can anyone quantify this eg the stereo sound from a £500 AV reciever equates to a stereo dedicated amp to the value of closer to £200?
Again thanks for the help.
DavieCee:
My iTunes via Beresford DAC matches my K2 CD player which is supposed to have a pretty good built in DAC. With that in mind, I would question paying more than £200 for a CD transport (if at all) and would suggest adding the balance to a better DAC or pocket money
I think the future is PC/download/stream and as such a K2 player may be on ebay soon.
You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
To the OP, a separate DAC of similar ability is often a better solution because of the isolation from transport vibration, independant power supplies etc. To my ears, the Cyrus Xt/e into a 8XPd is better than the 8SE analogue into the same amp. As far as I know the 8SE has the same transport as the xt/e. Using a separate power supply for the transport also made a noticeable improvement...
I can understand why you might still want to play CDs, I'm only a few days CDP less, and whilst I am more than happy with the sonic results off PC, there is a little voice in my head telling me that it cant be better than some purpose built shiny box. The key problem with any transport is getting accurate data off the disc, cheap transports just are not, so will always likely to be inferior to an error checked ripped lossless file.
My iTunes via Beresford DAC matches my K2 CD player which is supposed to have a pretty good built in DAC. With that in mind, I would question paying more than £200 for a CD transport (if at all) and would suggest adding the balance to a better DAC or pocket money
I think the future is PC/download/stream and as such a K2 player may be on ebay soon.
You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
To the OP, a separate DAC of similar ability is often a better solution because of the isolation from transport vibration, independant power supplies etc. To my ears, the Cyrus Xt/e into a 8XPd is better than the 8SE analogue into the same amp. As far as I know the 8SE has the same transport as the xt/e. Using a separate power supply for the transport also made a noticeable improvement...
I can understand why you might still want to play CDs, I'm only a few days CDP less, and whilst I am more than happy with the sonic results off PC, there is a little voice in my head telling me that it cant be better than some purpose built shiny box. The key problem with any transport is getting accurate data off the disc, cheap transports just are not, so will always likely to be inferior to an error checked ripped lossless file.
Steve, you've brought up something I was considering asking; the transport in my Dell laptop is less well made than the wrapper that my Stilton came in yesterday! I used to have a Sony CDP930 that had a drawer with a stabiliser that would sit on top of the cd, it was built like a warship! Surely there is a loss of quality in the rip if transport is of any importance in the delivery of the digital info, or is that what the error correction in iTunes fixes?
Thanks for the JRMC tip, will give it a whirl, do I need any specific hardware in my laptop to output 24 bit FLACs via USB to a DAC?
Thanks again.
Thanks for the JRMC tip, will give it a whirl, do I need any specific hardware in my laptop to output 24 bit FLACs via USB to a DAC?
Thanks again.
rascal6000:
Steve, you've brought up something I was considering asking; the transport in my Dell laptop is less well made than the wrapper that my Stilton came in yesterday! I used to have a Sony CDP930 that had a drawer with a stabiliser that would sit on top of the cd, it was built like a warship! Surely there is a loss of quality in the rip if transport is of any importance in the delivery of the digital info, or is that what the error correction in iTunes fixes?
Thanks for the JRMC tip, will give it a whirl, do I need any specific hardware in my laptop to output 24 bit FLACs via USB to a DAC?
Thanks again.
That's the beauty of using a computer as a music source, providing you use a programme with error correction to rip the files then pretty much any cheese wrapper will do. If you want it be NASA checked then Exact Audio Copy is the programme to use, buts its slow and not user friendly (no tagging etc). I'm using J River to rip into FLAC with "check audio" selected which I think is American for check file integrity after ripping. So far only a few of my discs required re-checking according to the rip log, and to be fair they are scratched to the point where my car player wouldnt. I am not sure how accurate the error correction is in iTunes, but I presume it does the same / similar thing.....
Don't know, but use the event mode for WASAPI. If it works without stuttering then I guess it works...
Steve, you've brought up something I was considering asking; the transport in my Dell laptop is less well made than the wrapper that my Stilton came in yesterday! I used to have a Sony CDP930 that had a drawer with a stabiliser that would sit on top of the cd, it was built like a warship! Surely there is a loss of quality in the rip if transport is of any importance in the delivery of the digital info, or is that what the error correction in iTunes fixes?
Thanks for the JRMC tip, will give it a whirl, do I need any specific hardware in my laptop to output 24 bit FLACs via USB to a DAC?
Thanks again.
That's the beauty of using a computer as a music source, providing you use a programme with error correction to rip the files then pretty much any cheese wrapper will do. If you want it be NASA checked then Exact Audio Copy is the programme to use, buts its slow and not user friendly (no tagging etc). I'm using J River to rip into FLAC with "check audio" selected which I think is American for check file integrity after ripping. So far only a few of my discs required re-checking according to the rip log, and to be fair they are scratched to the point where my car player wouldnt. I am not sure how accurate the error correction is in iTunes, but I presume it does the same / similar thing.....
Don't know, but use the event mode for WASAPI. If it works without stuttering then I guess it works...
Steve you are a kind and lovely man!
Oops, just found the Computer Based section of the forum, although I guess it started as a Hi Fi thread.
Oops, just found the Computer Based section of the forum, although I guess it started as a Hi Fi thread.
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
Still, I will enjoy what I have until something better comes along.................
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
DavieCee:
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
Still, I will enjoy what I have until something better comes along.................
Sorry dude! Hmmm do you want to borrow my TT bike next summer as compensation??
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
Sorry dude! Hmmm do you want to borrow my TT bike next summer as compensation??
SteveR750:[Sorry dude! Hmmm do you want to borrow my TT bike next summer as compensation??
Hijack alert! Thanks but no thanks. Going uphill as recreation is hard enough for me. Racing is just masochism even if it is just against yourself
Hijack alert! Thanks but no thanks. Going uphill as recreation is hard enough for me. Racing is just masochism even if it is just against yourself
DavieCee:
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
Still, I will enjoy what I have until something better comes along.................
i wouldn't worry about it, from what i've read itunes isn't the best player to use on a windows pc.
if you want to compare something to itunes on mac, try the free download of the pure music player - demo version works for about 2 weeks before you need to purchase.
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
i wouldn't worry about it, from what i've read itunes isn't the best player to use on a windows pc.
if you want to compare something to itunes on mac, try the free download of the pure music player - demo version works for about 2 weeks before you need to purchase.
Craig M.:DavieCee:
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
Still, I will enjoy what I have until something better comes along.................
i wouldn't worry about it, from what i've read itunes isn't the best player to use on a windows pc.
if you want to compare something to itunes on mac, try the free download of the pure music player - demo version works for about 2 weeks before you need to purchase.
I'm sure that's true, as iTunes can stream directly to the optical out driver in OSX which it cannot do in Windows (in typical windows fashion you have to install a 3rd party programme that you have to pay for and then spend 3 days 'tweaking' it to bypass all of the windows interference...it wouldn't surprise me if a Macbook running itunes sounded similar to my PC with carefully set up J River.
SteveR750:You should try J River - all that you read about its sonic ability is true - it is night and day better than iTunes in my experience.
You've finally snookered me on this one. Not compatible with OSX from what I can see
i wouldn't worry about it, from what i've read itunes isn't the best player to use on a windows pc.
if you want to compare something to itunes on mac, try the free download of the pure music player - demo version works for about 2 weeks before you need to purchase.
I'm sure that's true, as iTunes can stream directly to the optical out driver in OSX which it cannot do in Windows (in typical windows fashion you have to install a 3rd party programme that you have to pay for and then spend 3 days 'tweaking' it to bypass all of the windows interference...it wouldn't surprise me if a Macbook running itunes sounded similar to my PC with carefully set up J River.
SteveR750: it wouldn't surprise me if a Macbook running itunes sounded similar to my PC with carefully set up J River.
See. That's what I wanted to hear all along
See. That's what I wanted to hear all along
Yes but in typical Apple fashion you don't get a choice, it just happens under the bonnet which is sealed. Granted though the engine is usually very well designed. Mind you the J River website is unbelievably supportive, I had several replies directly from J River themselves within minutes of posting, and all useful information.
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