£1700 Monitor Audio Speakers Sound Clinical, Harsh and Confused.... HELP!!!!

[admin_exported]

Evening All,
My first post so be gentle!!!

I am the recent proud owner of some Monitor Audio GS20's. I got them for a knock down price I couldn't refuse. I am running them on a Yamaha DSP-A863. Great amp which for movies I have been very pleased with. I got the Monitor Audio speakers as an upgrade to Radius 250's (which I still have for centre and rears) to improve music performance while maintaing some sort of continuity with the other chanells for movies.

After a lot of listening I am really not happy with the sound I'm getting. As per subject they sound clinical and harsh. They sound quite top heavy which is OK on intro's and simple music, but as soon as a track gets going they just get too much and rather tiring to listen too. There is little seperation to instruments or vocals. I listen to all sorts of music, but predominantly Lo-Fi stuff like Morcheeba, Massive Attack etc.

I'm looking to spend around £1K to improve music performance and really dont know where to spend it. I am currently running an old Marantz 5400 cd player, and chord carnival silverscreen cables (bi-amped).

I know the cd player is the weakest link, with the amp possibly not too far behind (for music performance anyway). Do I get a really good CD player and stick with the amp or do I spend half the money on CD, half on the amp and run it via the pre outs on the yamaha?

Ultimately I would like a much smoother, warmer sound which is easy to listen too but with plenty of detail still - I know I know, I want my cake and eat it!

Do I have Arcam written all over me?! If I were to get huge leaps in performance I could streach to £1500, and I'm completely not adversed to buying slightly older kit second hand!

Any advice would be really usefull. Thanks in advance!

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I recently managed to find a Cyrus 8vs2 amp and CD8x player for about £1300. They are very good, and I love them. Only you can decide if they provide the improvements that you want. They review extremely well anywhere you look on the web, and are very detailed. Cyrus offer upgrade paths to future proof your investment.

Personally, I don't get hung up on cables too much, you only need ones that are transparent. I use Belden 5000UP speaker cable, and don't bi-wire. For interconnects I use Blue Jeans Cable LC-1. Pretty cheap, but very effective.

Good Luck

 

[Anonymous]

They sound like they are brand new, out of the box. They will need a good 100 hours running in.
The detail, transparency and weight should be excellent, which by what you post it isn't.

Things to do

Ensure you have a conditioned mains supply to the amp and player
Run in both the speakers & cables

Speakers of this quality will highlight shortcomings in signal source, you might need to look at a much better quality CD player. 2nd hand Meridian 208?

After doing the above re evaluate.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Stevemeck:
Evening All,
My first post so be gentle!!!

I am the recent proud owner of some Monitor Audio GS20's. I got them for a knock down price I couldn't refuse. I am running them on a Yamaha DSP-A863. Great amp which for movies I have been very pleased with. I got the Monitor Audio speakers as an upgrade to Radius 250's (which I still have for centre and rears) to improve music performance while maintaing some sort of continuity with the other chanells for movies.

After a lot of listening I am really not happy with the sound I'm getting. As per subject they sound clinical and harsh. They sound quite top heavy which is OK on intro's and simple music, but as soon as a track gets going they just get too much and rather tiring to listen too. There is little seperation to instruments or vocals. I listen to all sorts of music, but predominantly Lo-Fi stuff like Morcheeba, Massive Attack etc.

I'm looking to spend around £1K to improve music performance and really dont know where to spend it. I am currently running an old Marantz 5400 cd player, and chord carnival silverscreen cables (bi-amped).

I know the cd player is the weakest link, with the amp possibly not too far behind (for music performance anyway). Do I get a really good CD player and stick with the amp or do I spend half the money on CD, half on the amp and run it via the pre outs on the yamaha?

Ultimately I would like a much smoother, warmer sound which is easy to listen too but with plenty of detail still - I know I know, I want my cake and eat it!

Do I have Arcam written all over me?! If I were to get huge leaps in performance I could streach to £1500, and I'm completely not adversed to buying slightly older kit second hand!

Any advice would be really usefull. Thanks in advance!

Steve

Your amp is the weakest link for me, by far! You have £1700 stereo speakers being driven by a £600 AV receiver. I would seriously check out the Cambridge Audio 840A v2 (£750). This amp would be perfect for your speakers - it can cope with better too. As for cd players, you could check out the Creek Evo (£350-£500), Pioneer PD-D6-J (£330), Denon DCD-1500AE (£500), CA 740C (£500) or the 840C (matching the amp) (£750). You really have countless choices. Changing to a stereo amp first though and connecting it to the receiver's pre outs so that you can use the speakers for AV and stereo will give you startling results.

 

[Anonymous]

Completely agree with Gerrardasnails, sort the amp first. The CA 840 amp and CDP are meant to be pretty special for the cash.

 

[Anonymous]

Septicman:

I recently managed to find a Cyrus 8vs2 amp and CD8x player for about £1300. They are very good, and I love them. Only you can decide if they provide the improvements that you want. They review extremely well anywhere you look on the web, and are very detailed. Cyrus offer upgrade paths to future proof your investment.

Personally, I don't get hung up on cables too much, you only need ones that are transparent. I use Belden 5000UP speaker cable, and don't bi-wire. For interconnects I use Blue Jeans Cable LC-1. Pretty cheap, but very effective.

Good Luck

Cables made a huge difference in my system and I will never ignore or play down their effect in future.They may well not be the most pressing fault in this system but to ignore them could be his loss.

As I said on another thread....they are just so damm boring to buy and you do not get the same thrill as buying a new cd or amp at time of purchase.

Alan.

 

[crusaderlord]

Given you find the sound harsh and overbalanced at the top end i would be a touch wary of both Cambridge Audio and Cyrus as both are generally considered bright amplifiers. I certainly found the Cambridge overly bright for my own taste although i only tried models up to the 740 so the 840 may be different.

If you want to edge towards warm then NAD, Arcam and Musical Fidelity may be much a better balance for you and model depends on your budget really.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a MA GS60 based 5.1 speaker system running on Primare kit (A32, A30.3, SP32, CD31). I had a month of running the MAs with a loan Arcam receiver (whilst waiting for the new SP32 to ship) during which time the sound was decidedly bright. For the last month I have had the Primare. As soon as I had the Primare kit the sound immediately changed from bright to what I would decide as rich. Playing CDs with the processor set to direct mode the sound is sometimes too bassy. Although I am concerned that the sound is somewhat unpredictable I accept with a brand new system things will change as everything runs in and whilst I have the odd moment of disappointment I have more than enough moments of wonder (for want of a better word) when everything just comes together. My only advice would be to stick with it until the speakers have settled.

 

[Ajani]

crusaderlord:Given you find the sound harsh and overbalanced at the top end i would be a touch wary of both Cambridge Audio and Cyrus as both are generally considered bright amplifiers. I certainly found the Cambridge overly bright for my own taste although i only tried models up to the 740 so the 840 may be different.

If you want to edge towards warm then NAD, Arcam and Musical Fidelity may be much a better balance for you and model depends on your budget really.

If I had to guess, I'd say the issue is your amp... I would never pair Yamaha with Monitor Audio (since both tend to be on the bright side)... The way you describe the performance of the GS20 sounds just like what I heard when a friend combine B&W CM1s with a Yamaha...

IMO, the GS20 would sound best on the end of a Musical Fidelity (top choice), Creek, Arcam or NAD amp... I highly recommend trying out the Musical Fidelity X-T100....

I agree with Crusaderlord: Gear I would avoid pairing with Monitor Audio are Cyrus and Cambridge Audio (Both good brands, but I don't think they blend well with Monitor Audio)...

 

[Gwyndy]

What's your room layout like, is it carpeted? do you have anything on the walls?

I agree that the Amplifier isn't up to the quality of your speakers, I'm just wondering whether your room is making the situation worse.

 

[plastic penguin]

Gwyndy:What's your room layout like, is it carpeted? do you have anything on the walls? I agree that the Amplifier isn't up to the quality of your speakers, I'm just wondering whether your room is making the situation worse.

I totally agree - before splashing anymore money check the accoustics, carpets, curtains, bookcases, furniture and indeed the size of the room in question.

Also did you audition the speakers prior to handing the money over?

 

[Anonymous]

Wow! Thanks for all the advice so far. Very impressed with your suggestions.

I brought the speakers second hand, they are just over a year old so are well run in. I heard them about a year ago, and was particulurly impressed with them. The resolution of the sound coming out of them was as good as I've ever heard. I remember them being immensly detailed without any harshness or grain to the top end. I may have an overly nostalgic memory though!

The room is probably not helping matters, it is carpeted with VERY thick carpet but nothing on the walls at all, blinds instead of curtains etc etc. BIG corner sofa though. It's 3.5 meters wide by about 6 meters long. The speakers are in the corners of the 3.5m wall. I know these are quite big speakers for the room, but the demo room I heard them in was similar in size with no probs.

So general consensus is to look at maybe getting a dedicated stereo amp and another CD player, this is what I suspected. I guess I could simply run the CD direct to the stereo amp and run the pre outs from the amp to a different input, thereby bypassing the yamaha amp completely on CD playback.

So, next step is to go somewhere with GS20's in stock and listen to them on some of the above mentioned kit. In a perfect world I would like to hear them back to back with my Yamaha amp and old CD player vs dedicated Hi-Fi seperates.

I'm really interested to know what the opinion is on how much improvement I can achieve. On paper an 8 year old £150 CD player and £600 surround amp don't do the speakers justice, but can I expect a day and night difference if I spent £1K to £1.5K on dedicated stuff? As I'm sure everyone here knows the Yamaha amp has recently one WHF amp of the year (with a very positive view on its stereo performance). I am running it bi-amp'd so there is plenty of juice, and the CD player albeit old was a 5 star award winner too.

Again, my tastes are an easy going laid back sound but with inherant detail built in. That in mind I suspect the brightness of Cyrus, Naim, C/A etc will not help the situation, possibly 1 step forwards 2 steps back?

Trevor/maxheadroom, I am running standard power leads throughout. Rightly or wrongly I have always put upgraded power leads in that 'diminshing returns if any at all' bucket in my mind. Is there REALLY a difference? Can if make harsh sounding kit smoother?

Stevevp, thanks for your input. From reading up I think the Primare CD31 and an equivilent amp might be exactly what the doctor ordered. That or maybe some FMJ bits. Don't suppose your in berkshire?!

Thanks again all...

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Stevemeck:
Wow! Thanks for all the advice so far. Very impressed with your suggestions.

I brought the speakers second hand, they are just over a year old so are well run in. I heard them about a year ago, and was particulurly impressed with them. The resolution of the sound coming out of them was as good as I've ever heard. I remember them being immensly detailed without any harshness or grain to the top end. I may have an overly nostalgic memory though!

The room is probably not helping matters, it is carpeted with VERY thick carpet but nothing on the walls at all, blinds instead of curtains etc etc. BIG corner sofa though. It's 3.5 meters wide by about 6 meters long. The speakers are in the corners of the 3.5m wall. I know these are quite big speakers for the room, but the demo room I heard them in was similar in size with no probs.

So general consensus is to look at maybe getting a dedicated stereo amp and another CD player, this is what I suspected. I guess I could simply run the CD direct to the stereo amp and run the pre outs from the amp to a different input, thereby bypassing the yamaha amp completely on CD playback.

So, next step is to go somewhere with GS20's in stock and listen to them on some of the above mentioned kit. In a perfect world I would like to hear them back to back with my Yamaha amp and old CD player vs dedicated Hi-Fi seperates.

I'm really interested to know what the opinion is on how much improvement I can achieve. On paper an 8 year old £150 CD player and £600 surround amp don't do the speakers justice, but can I expect a day and night difference if I spent £1K to £1.5K on dedicated stuff? As I'm sure everyone here knows the Yamaha amp has recently one WHF amp of the year (with a very positive view on its stereo performance). I am running it bi-amp'd so there is plenty of juice, and the CD player albeit old was a 5 star award winner too.

Again, my tastes are an easy going laid back sound but with inherant detail built in. That in mind I suspect the brightness of Cyrus, Naim, C/A etc will not help the situation, possibly 1 step forwards 2 steps back?

Trevor/maxheadroom, I am running standard power leads throughout. Rightly or wrongly I have always put upgraded power leads in that 'diminshing returns if any at all' bucket in my mind. Is there REALLY a difference? Can if make harsh sounding kit smoother?

Stevevp, thanks for your input. From reading up I think the Primare CD31 and an equivilent amp might be exactly what the doctor ordered. That or maybe some FMJ bits. Don't suppose your in berkshire?!

Thanks again all...

Steve. The CA 840A is not bright in the slightest. You can buy one and try it at home for a couple of weeks with a no questions asked money back guarantee. The Creek Evo (my previous amp) is delicious sounding but still not as good as the 840 and I had problems linking it to my receiver's pre outs. The main reason why you are getting a bright sound at the moment is that your receiver is not a stereo amp and is not driving your speakers well enough.

Your AV amp is an excellent one but it's probably the equivalent to a £200 stereo amp. Your speakers need and deserve a lot better. If you buy any of the suggested equipment you will hear a night and day difference, for sure.

 

[Anonymous]

Musical Fidelity to smooth out those MAs. Also running in - a lot- as stated above.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm in Bucks!

 

[Anonymous]

I think you need different speakers. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

I had similar issues with my GS10's at first. They need time to mellow. Bass was almost non existent, treble overly bright with lots of sibilance. Now they sound fantastic. Took a good 2 months I reckon. They still sound better each week. My QUAD components work very well with MA

 

[Anonymous]

How much did you pay by the way for the speakers? Thanks

 

[a.g.]

Get shot of the amp!

 

[Anonymous]

rubbish amps ; rubbish speakers.

Sorry.

Get a stereo amp and something with a silk dome tweeter.

 

[Gwyndy]

Stevemeck:
Wow! Thanks for all the advice so far. Very impressed with your suggestions.

I brought the speakers second hand, they are just over a year old so are well run in. I heard them about a year ago, and was particulurly impressed with them. The resolution of the sound coming out of them was as good as I've ever heard. I remember them being immensly detailed without any harshness or grain to the top end. I may have an overly nostalgic memory though!

The room is probably not helping matters, it is carpeted with VERY thick carpet but nothing on the walls at all, blinds instead of curtains etc etc. BIG corner sofa though. It's 3.5 meters wide by about 6 meters long. The speakers are in the corners of the 3.5m wall. I know these are quite big speakers for the room, but the demo room I heard them in was similar in size with no probs.

So general consensus is to look at maybe getting a dedicated stereo amp and another CD player, this is what I suspected. I guess I could simply run the CD direct to the stereo amp and run the pre outs from the amp to a different input, thereby bypassing the yamaha amp completely on CD playback.

Thanks again all...

Are you speakers right in the corners of the room?, if so I would move them out a bit from both the corners and the back wall, thick carpeting should reduce treble harshness. I think your speakers may be showing up the weaknessess in the rest of your system.

So far as I can tell dealerships in Berkshire appear to be Frasers in Slough (01753 520244), AudioVenue in Maidenhead(01628 633995), who have some nice deals on 2ndHand Musical Fidelity and Cyrus at the moment, and Sevenoaks in Reading, who have some deals on Cyrus and Arcam when you buy CD player and Amp together, or a whopping £650 off an Ex-Dem Lyngdorf CD1.

 

[Anonymous]

Buy a tacima block if you don't have any mains conditioning. You will find a noticeable improvement.
Your speakers need room to breath, do not site them close to the corners of the room, and experiment with distances from the back wall.
I would start by doing this first, then you have a good base from which to evaluate. Just because they are 12 mths old doesn't mean they have been used much so they could still need further bedding in.
As many have suggested a good amp might make everything come together, the help of a good Hi Fi dealer loaning out equipment will be very valuable to getting a quality match.

 

[Anonymous]

Dunno if your,e sorted yet but Musical Fidelity gear works great with monitor audio speakers but dont forget MA speakers need a good running in and mine (GR10's) take a good hour of reasonably hard driving to get to their best, after which the sound really warms up and the harsh sometimes "thin" sound disappears. Stick with it.

 

[JoelSim]

You need a stereo amp first and foremost. Then a CD player or DAC.

Let your speakers run in too as MA tend to be on the bright side, so the amp should perhaps be a little warm to counterbalance things.ÿ

 

[matthewpiano]

£1700 speakers + £600 AV amp = DISASTER. Your speakers are just not being driven properly and need a VASTLY superior amp in order to sing. If you don't want to splash out on equally expensive source and amp, sell the speakers and go for a more affordable combination which will walk all over your current set-up.