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Yamaha A-S2100, new speakers!

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gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
716
111
19,070
Got you, although lab results of 83dB and a more accurate 6ohm does imply you are going to need a meaty amplifier which I guess the Yamaha is.
135watt pr channel dynamically in 6 ohm is not much for 83 db spakers that's 30-35 watt with 89db speakers
 
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JohanEk

Active member
Jan 22, 2020
17
18
25
Was away at a dealer in Stockholm listening to the ATC Scm11, the Qln Prestige One and the Dynaudio Special 40.
Really really liked all three of them. All of the was demoed with a Heed Audio Lagrange amplifier which I believe outputs 6ow at 8 ohm and 100w at 4 ohm.
On paper it's therefore weaker than my Yamaha A-S2100 but I didn't think it had any problems at all driving the ATC. :)

At the dealer there and then I thought the Dynaudios sounded the best, but even since I came home all I could think about was the Scm11.
Will go back for a longer demo. I'm definitely also more interested in the bigger scm19 now.

Got more speakers to demo as well, but can't purchase any before I sell my current speakers. The second hand market seems to be really slow right now.
 

Paulq

Well-known member
Dec 2, 2007
309
9
18,895
I lived with the for 3 weeks on home demo and I can categorically say they need a good twist on the volume knob to get them going they are not low volume listening speakers if that's what you're after its nothing but tweeter at lower levels. If you're after a full sound at lower levels brands such as Revel, B&W, KEF Burchard audio will outperform on this front. And for non "monitoring" speakers the revels m106 performer series show them a clean pair of heels easily offering far greater sound stage and faster delivery of the music which is meant to be ATC's ace. And if your thinking because the ATCs are a sealed design you can put them up against the wall think again, they need plenty of room, not too mention some really heavyweight stands something like Partington broadsides

Think about ATC's pedigree, they're studio based monitor company but packaging to consumers, these speakers are designed to be played load for hours on end, the driver assembles make up most of the weight of the speakers the drivers are tested to extremes.

Your Yamaha seems powerfully enough, ohm spec really doesn't bother me with modern amps, it very much a guessing game with the way amps delivers the gain. The 83db spec suggests an amp that can deliver clean volume when turned up, some can't.

Putting my own views aside, For the vast majority of people, ATC is not the brand they want especially if you're not prepared to listen at full gas the whole time. ATC come into there own with there active designs id be looking at the a19scm the active version of the passive 19s you'd proably enjoys them more. A dac wth a volume control done! very clean set up.

Passive for the price id rather go JBL revel or B&W
I own SCM19's and would disagree with pretty much everything you've said.
 
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JohanEk

Active member
Jan 22, 2020
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I own SCM19's and would disagree with pretty much everything you've said.
Yeah the dealer didn't "crank up the volume" and we didn't play "at full gas".
Nothing what he wrote can describe what I was hearing with the ATC Scm11. :) I REALLY enjoyed them. A lot.
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
336
127
11,070
Yeah the dealer didn't "crank up the volume" and we didn't play "at full gas".
Nothing what he wrote can describe what I was hearing with the ATC Scm11. :) I REALLY enjoyed them. A lot.

Thanks for the detailed reply and sharing your lovely experience with them I'm truly glad you REALLY enjoyed them, good for you!

Ok, lets go into detail here then, just for you guys (though the OP wasn't asking what they sound like, he was asking if is amp could drive the speakers and if he had to ask the question then basically NO) lets try to justify your purchases for you. Spoiler alert I hated the passive ATC's on all the amps i had access to at the time.

Passive 19s

The sound is balanced not forward, not recessed, though the bass is weak because of the sealed design. Don't be fooled though they still require breathing room as stated.

The detail is all there again not sibilant in any way and you can hear into the tracks but it's not that deep compared to some, in fact, it's pretty shallow but this is mitigated slightly by bringing them out a touch further at the expense of a touch of bass weight. The imagining is spot on and is really focused in the middle which i really like but the sound stage is not as hollow graphic as some. All traits you can read everywhere and regurgitated like a cat's furball. but thats pretty much all i liked about them

What i dont like, the speaker never quite disappear compared to others I've heard, they have a chestiness to there presentation, I feel like I'm listening to boxes and really don't like that all. In a vacuum, you wouldn't hear this per se. The dynamics are nothing to write home about, if you're into dynamics these arent the speakers for you IMO. Night listening is where these speakers really fall flat on there face, and for me, this is a deal-breaker compared to competition and 2-3 speakers, in particular, these are completely useless at playing at low levels, the sound falls completely apart, ill go into detail below about this.

Compare the ATC SCM 19s to the Revels m106 and B&W 705s and the ATC's are not even close in terms of dynamics the Revels in particular blister along at a pace that ATC's can't match starting and stopping much quicker, which is strange as the ATC's are sealed. The Revel envelope you in a holographic sound in such a way, you could belive you have rear effect speakers behind. The B&W's are much the same but not quite at revels standards, Kevin Voecks really pulled out the bag with the Revels in this regard.

If someone wanted a 2.1 surround and didn't want to miss out on the effects the revels would be the speakers to get.

The Revels and B&W have the ability to completely disappear into the room, in a way the ATC just can't approach the sound of the other 2, it's all completely outside of the speakers if i couldn't see the woofers moving you wouldn't even be able to tell speakers were actually on.

Volume-wise all three can go loud if that's your bag! but the B&W and revels do it much quicker and in a quieter portion of most volume controls, making for much better listening at lower levels. On the Naim nac 272 I had the time I could hear a nice full sound at 5 on the volume late at night. ATCs at the same volume weren't even working. To get the same level of sound I was at 15-19 on the screen where the other 2 were already at moderate everyday listening levels at this point, the specs show as such. And B&Ws are not easy to drive at all.

Out of all three (actually 5 i had on loan) the ATC was by far the biggest letdown. And considering ATC pedigree as a monitoring company this surprised me.

I had each speaker on for the same amount of time 3-4weeks with no swapping around so that i could get used to them. Taking the ATC's off and putting the revels in there was an instant uplift in sound and it was night and day. Not so much between the revels and B&W's that was a really close run.

On a side note, the Revels measure just as ruler flat as the ATC really making it a no brainer if you want ruler flat measurements from a speaker. The Revels offer fare more in regards to sound, theres a reason you don't see many on the second-hand market.

But what about the woofer in the ATC i hear you say (the 11s woofer is noting special i might add)! Well, the Revels use one of the best woofers money can buy and doesn't weigh a ton! ATC's are overbuilt for consumer use. And why is there reflex woofer in a sealed cabinet? it's not going anywhere quite literally the thing barely moves! it just isn't needed and makes the speakers needlessly hard to drive (well not drive, but, hmmm react to volume)

The active 19s are a different story but far more money and the OP has an amp and wasn't asking about them so I can't be bothered to go into detail about them.

I Like certain things from speakers as we all do! I like dynamically easy to drive speakers, that i can listen to late at night. And i'll choose that at the expense of bass weight hence my chosen speakers in Klipsch Heritage line up.

What I will say is I offered more to the conversation other than "I like them" and "I pretty much disagree" and TBH you're bashing me for not digging a little deeper with my thoughts, I answered the OPs question. yes, you need the power to get them up to speed, and he needs to go and listen to be sure.

My experiences are different from yours and that's great. You do you!
 
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plus 1

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2019
619
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Thanks for the detailed reply and sharing your lovely experience with them I'm truly glad you REALLY enjoyed them, good for you!

Ok, lets go into detail here then, just for you guys (though the OP wasn't asking what they sound like, he was asking if is amp could drive the speakers and if he had to ask the question then basically NO) lets try to justify your purchases for you. Spoiler alert I hated the passive ATC's on all the amps i had access to at the time.

Passive 19s

The sound is balanced not forward, not recessed, though the bass is weak because of the sealed design. Don't be fooled though they still require breathing room as stated.

The detail is all there again not sibilant in any way and you can hear into the tracks but it's not that deep compared to some, in fact, it's pretty shallow but this is mitigated slightly by bringing them out a touch further at the expense of a touch of bass weight. The imagining is spot on and is really focused in the middle which i really like but the sound stage is not as hollow graphic as some. All traits you can read everywhere and regurgitated like a cat's furball. but thats pretty much all i liked about them

What i dont like, the speaker never quite disappear compared to others I've heard, they have a chestiness to there presentation, I feel like I'm listening to boxes and really don't like that all. In a vacuum, you wouldn't hear this per se. The dynamics are nothing to write home about, if you're into dynamics these arent the speakers for you IMO. Night listening is where these speakers really fall flat on there face, and for me, this is a deal-breaker compared to competition and 2-3 speakers, in particular, these are completely useless at playing at low levels, the sound falls completely apart, ill go into detail below about this.

Compare the ATC SCM 19s to the Revels m106 and B&W 705s and the ATC's are not even close in terms of dynamics the Revels in particular blister along at a pace that ATC's can't match starting and stopping much quicker, which is strange as the ATC's are sealed. The Revel envelope you in a holographic sound in such a way, you could belive you have rear effect speakers behind. The B&W's are much the same but not quite at revels standards, Kevin Voecks really pulled out the bag with the Revels in this regard.

If someone wanted a 2.1 surround and didn't want to miss out on the effects the revels would be the speakers to get.

The Revels and B&W have the ability to completely disappear into the room, in a way the ATC just can't approach the sound of the other 2, it's all completely outside of the speakers if i couldn't see the woofers moving you wouldn't even be able to tell speakers were actually on.

Volume-wise all three can go loud if that's your bag! but the B&W and revels do it much quicker and in a quieter portion of most volume controls, making for much better listening at lower levels. On the Naim nac 272 I had the time I could hear a nice full sound at 5 on the volume late at night. ATCs at the same volume weren't even working. To get the same level of sound I was at 15-19 on the screen where the other 2 were already at moderate everyday listening levels at this point, the specs show as such. And B&Ws are not easy to drive at all.

Out of all three (actually 5 i had on loan) the ATC was by far the biggest letdown. And considering ATC pedigree as a monitoring company this surprised me.

I had each speaker on for the same amount of time 3-4weeks with no swapping around so that i could get used to them. Taking the ATC's off and putting the revels in there was an instant uplift in sound and it was night and day. Not so much between the revels and B&W's that was a really close run.

On a side note, the Revels measure just as ruler flat as the ATC really making it a no brainer if you want ruler flat measurements from a speaker. The Revels offer fare more in regards to sound, theres a reason you don't see many on the second-hand market.

But what about the woofer in the ATC i hear you say (the 11s woofer is noting special i might add)! Well, the Revels use one of the best woofers money can buy and doesn't weigh a ton! ATC's are overbuilt for consumer use. And why is there reflex woofer in a sealed cabinet? it's not going anywhere quite literally the thing barely moves! it just isn't needed and makes the speakers needlessly hard to drive (well not drive, but, hmmm react to volume)

The active 19s are a different story but far more money and the OP has an amp and wasn't asking about them so I can't be bothered to go into detail about them.

I Like certain things from speakers as we all do! I like dynamically easy to drive speakers, that i can listen to late at night. And i'll choose that at the expense of bass weight hence my chosen speakers in Klipsch Heritage line up.

What I will say is I offered more to the conversation other than "I like them" and "I pretty much disagree" and TBH you're bashing me for not digging a little deeper with my thoughts, I answered the OPs question. yes, you need the power to get them up to speed, and he needs to go and listen to be sure.

My experiences are different from yours and that's great. You do you!
i have no advice i can offer to this thread but would like to say i really enjoy the detailed explanations given as regards to how various kit sounds.
here is a video showing the revel speakers - love the look of them.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d31qjmWLIbo
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
336
127
11,070
i have no advice i can offer to this thread but would like to say i really enjoy the detailed explanations given as regards to how various kit sounds.
here is a video showing the revel speakers - love the look of them.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d31qjmWLIbo
They are certainly easier to live with especially if you have the grills in place, the one thing I didn't like was the tops of the revels, is some sort soft-touch plastic and easily tarnished with everyday life, but the gloss finish is out of this world, no orange peel, a proper mirror finish.

There are only a few reviews online for the smaller speakers in the range. Many concentrate on the floor standers which are monsters in their own right. There is one review that goes into the nitty-gritty with them and basically says they are the pinnacle for stand mount, would i go that far and say that? well i haven't really listened to many stand mounts above 2k let's say their ones to beat at 2k -4k. If you have the change give them a listen. Obversly it my room and on so on and your milage may vary.
 
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nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
163
49
18,620
This is why it’s so hard to recommend Hifi to others, even though the majority of posts are asking for just that.

I have heard several Revel models and they’ve always been enjoyable. They’re very well designed and made. Not easy to find in my neck of the woods, but often at shows.

I have heard a few ATCs too, and own a pair. They may not be for everyone, but they have a precision and balance to the sound that I value, and are easy to locate in most rooms. My first ever speakers were infinite baffles/acoustic suspension designs, and I’ve never been a great fan of ported speakers. It was great to return to them. I find the tapering, yet extended bass very much to my taste. And I prefer amps with plenty of power, so that’s not something that bothers me.
 
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