Would A Rega Brio R Or Marantz PM6004 Be Better Than The Arcam A65?

Gareth82

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Hi everyone, i love the sound of my A65 and although it is a few years old, i was woundering how it would compare to a newer Rega Brio R or Marantz PM6003/PM6004.

My reason for this question is that i may be replacing my second system of Alpha 5+ Amp and Alpha One CDP and was thinking of either getting a second hand A85 and CD73 (and moving the A65 and CD72 upstairs) or buying something new like the Marantz PM6004 and CD6004.

I really do need some help as i can't really demo a A85 and CD73 so i guess it's a question of Old vs New as i'm curious as to how the Arcam would stand up to the newer breads of Amps and CDPs.

I know i could just buy another A65 and CD72 but i would rather have two different systems to use.

Thanks for reading and any opinions would be a great help.
 
Gareth82 said:
Hi everyone, i love the sound of my A65 and although it is a few years old, i was woundering how it would compare to a newer Rega Brio R or Marantz PM6003/PM6004.

My reason for this question is that i may be replacing my second system of Alpha 5+ Amp and Alpha One CDP and was thinking of either getting a second hand A85 and CD73 (and moving the A65 and CD72 upstairs) or buying something new like the Marantz PM6004 and CD6004.

I really do need some help as i can't really demo a A85 and CD73 so i guess it's a question of Old vs New as i'm curious as to how the Arcam would stand up to the newer breads of Amps and CDPs.

I know i could just buy another A65 and CD72 but i would rather have two different systems to use.

Thanks for reading and any opinions would be a great help.

Hi Gareth.

Wanna tell you a story....

I bought the A65+ in 2005 and loved it. Once I joined this forum I was looking at upgrading the A65 whilst retaining the rest of my system. From 2008 to 2010 I've probably listened to (and enjoyed) most of the big hitters in the sub-£1,000 bracket. They all had very plausible virtues which outgunned the A65 - in certain areas. But none, to my ears justified the extra investment.

There are a number on here who dislike the A65 immensely: After listening to the Roksans, Creeks, Cyrus, Primare, Marantz... and so it goes on - if you're looking at wall shaking levels of music these and others will do it better than the A65. If, on the other hand, you're music is played at low to medium levels there's little, certainly below £1,500, that betters it. Hence why I ended up with the Leema: it gave me the all-round performance that the sub-£1,000 integrateds couldn't.

The only way to be sure is to take your Arcam into a dealer and directly comparing it with the 'New Kids on the Block'.

FWIW, the best sub-£100 integrated I've heard is the Creek Evo2. Great match with Arcam CDPs too.
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the reply PP.

My music is played at low to medium levels so the A65 works brilliant for that. I want to have two systems of equal quality as me and the wife sometimes want to listen to music at the same time but not the same song/album so having two systems of the same quality is a must.

I was thinking of going the second hand Arcam route again but wounderd how the new kids in the block would compare so i guess i would have to go along to a dealer and compare my A65 to them.

In your opinion is the A85 much of an improvement over the A65?

Also, keep me updated on how the DacMagic sounds with your CDP as i was looking at getting a Dac in the new year so it would be interesting to see how the DacMagic sounds with a Arcam CDP.
 
Gareth82 said:
Thanks for the reply PP.

My music is played at low to medium levels so the A65 works brilliant for that. I want to have two systems of equal quality as me and the wife sometimes want to listen to music at the same time but not the same song/album so having two systems of the same quality is a must.

I was thinking of going the second hand Arcam route again but wounderd how the new kids in the block would compare so i guess i would have to go along to a dealer and compare my A65 to them.

In your opinion is the A85 much of an improvement over the A65?

Also, keep me updated on how the DacMagic sounds with your CDP as i was looking at getting a Dac in the new year so it would be interesting to see how the DacMagic sounds with a Arcam CDP.

Can't comment on the Rega or the new Marantz, but any upgrade below a grand is slight. However, as you obviously like Arcam's presentation then Creek Evo 2 comes closest IMO, with more punch.

Asd regards to the A85: yes wonderful amp, but whether it's enough to satisfy the old 'hi-fi upgradeitis' that depends on the individual.

If you want to upgrade on a budget buy another Arcam and add a power amp. Also buy a pair of MA speakers - really is a gem combo.

Regards my little "shall I, shan't I" dilemma: yes I'll give you as many boring, tedious details as my patience will allow...LOL.

Good luck, pp
 
Hi Gareth82

I know these Arcam amplifiers and cd players well as i used to deal with them. Firstly i'll recommend that you hold on to your CD72. Although the CD73 is a superior player however the differences were/are not big enough to warrant a change.

Secondly the A85 is a better amplifier then the A65 however the A85 can also easily be improved upon by another integrated amplifier (and one which also cost less then the A85) which was available at the same time as the A85. Rotel's superb RA-1062 is that amplifier. Fwiw, i demonstrated the A85 versus the RA-1062 on 92 occasions. Not one A85 was purchased and instead 90 RA-1062's were bought regardless of source components and speakers used (which included CD72/CD73 and Wharfedale speakers).

RA-1062's are usually available on the used market around £300. The RA-1062 will energise your speakers far more effectively then the A65 and i feel will therefore offer a significant and worthwhile improvement in performance in pretty much every area.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the reply Rick.

I will have a look at the Rotel amp. I basically want a second set up to either match the A65 and C72 or be better than it. I think that i may be best to look at the second hand route again as you seem to get good value for money.

In your opinion though, would the Rega Brio R be better than the A65 or Rotel amp?
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the reply PP.

I think maybe i would be best to pick up another Arcam or maybe a Rotel amp second hand and then get a CDP.

Adding a power amp to the A65 is something i have considerd but there doesn't seem to be too many around at the moment and the ones that are seem to be quiet pricey at the moment.

As for the speakers, yes i definately want to change to Monitor Audio. I have seen a lovely pair of RS6's in Walnut in excellent condition with original boxes going for £399 on Gumtree.
 
Gareth82 said:
Thanks for the reply PP.

I think maybe i would be best to pick up another Arcam or maybe a Rotel amp second hand and then get a CDP.

Adding a power amp to the A65 is something i have considerd but there doesn't seem to be too many around at the moment and the ones that are seem to be quiet pricey at the moment.

As for the speakers, yes i definately want to change to Monitor Audio. I have seen a lovely pair of RS6's in Walnut in excellent condition with original boxes going for £399 on Gumtree.

Rotel are a fantastic brand, especially amps and CDPs (older ones). However, the chance of you liking the Rotel with whatever speakers you have probably won't give the sound you're looking for.

Certainly, from personal experience (and a lot of frustration) MA RS6 and Rotel just do not gel. If you're seriously looking at MA RS6s then Arcam, Creek, Roksan Kandy LIII, Exposure, Nad and the higher end Cambridge Audio (840 in particular) are better with MAs than Rotel. Why? not sure TBH. The Rotel has wonderful fast, tight bass but for me the top-end doesn't dovetail with MAs hard domed tweeter.
 
Gareth82 said:
Hi everyone, i love the sound of my A65 and although it is a few years old, i was woundering how it would compare to a newer Rega Brio R or Marantz PM6003/PM6004.

My reason for this question is that i may be replacing my second system of Alpha 5+ Amp and Alpha One CDP and was thinking of either getting a second hand A85 and CD73 (and moving the A65 and CD72 upstairs) or buying something new like the Marantz PM6004 and CD6004.

I really do need some help as i can't really demo a A85 and CD73 so i guess it's a question of Old vs New as i'm curious as to how the Arcam would stand up to the newer breads of Amps and CDPs.

I know i could just buy another A65 and CD72 but i would rather have two different systems to use.

Thanks for reading and any opinions would be a great help.

Been meaning to ask you for a while: Is your Arcam the A65 or A65 Plus? I've only heard the 'Plus' but there is a difference between the two. The original A65 first came into production in 2002 to very luke-warm reviews. The 'Plus' however, was originally a five star recipient and remained a well respected amp until replaced in 2006.
 

Gareth82

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Sorry about the late reply PP, got a new toy for the kitchen (see signiture) so been playing around with it. the power amp has built in vu meters and looks pritty cool when working.

My A65 is the original and not the plus. I only paid £75 for it so it was abit of a bargin. I have seen a A65 Plus going for £120 so they seem to be quiet cheap.

The Leema interests me, it's ironic you sent me the link as i was looking at that same model Leema last night. I also like the look of this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Pulse-3-Integrated-Amplifier-DAC-5-Months-Old-Pulse-111-Amp-DAC-/180730302141?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2a145d8ebd

But think that it may be abit over budget.
 
Gareth82 said:
Sorry about the late reply PP, got a new toy for the kitchen (see signiture) so been playing around with it. the power amp has built in vu meters and looks pritty cool when working.

My A65 is the original and not the plus. I only paid £75 for it so it was abit of a bargin. I have seen a A65 Plus going for £120 so they seem to be quiet cheap.

The Leema interests me, it's ironic you sent me the link as i was looking at that same model Leema last night. I also like the look of this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Pulse-3-Integrated-Amplifier-DAC-5-Months-Old-Pulse-111-Amp-DAC-/180730302141?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2a145d8ebd

But think that it may be abit over budget.

No probs - thought I'd add that to the mix as you seem to have a similar taste and expectations as me when it comes to amps. If a A85 costs between £300-£350 used, then, to me, it makes sense to buy a brand new up-to-date (ish), brand new, modern amp that'll blow your socks off.

It has a very similar tonal quality to Arcam yet has a shed-load of attack, dynamics and imaging...

Edit - had to go quickly...

Anyway, back to all things Arcamy. Look at buying A85 or perhaps A65 Plus and add a power amp (P85/P75/P80). Arcam do flourish with a power amp, probably more than most makes.
 

Gareth82

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Yes thanks for that PP.

The Leema does appeal to me and their CDPs look good aswell. I just thought that if i was spending that much on something second hand and that is a few years old maybe i would be best to buy something more newer and upto date. You can get some good bargins second hand but some things are just silly prices (i.e. Arcam alpha 8 amps etc).

I was thinking of getting a Squeezebox Touch or have some sort of pc based music system but when adding up the cost of a Dac, Nas Drive and the SB Touch or a mini PC i would rather stick to CD for now and speand the money on upgrading my Amp and CDP.

Digital music does look like the future and i may get a Sonos multi room system in the future. The thing is that CDs are soo cheap to buy these days and i have done some tests with the same song via FLAC and then the original CD and i just semmed to prefer the hard copy of the CD everytime over the digital FLAC file.
 

Gareth82

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Yes thanks for that PP.

The Leema does appeal to me and their CDPs look good aswell. I just thought that if i was spending that much on something second hand and that is a few years old maybe i would be best to buy something more newer and upto date. You can get some good bargins second hand but some things are just silly prices (i.e. Arcam alpha 8 amps etc).

I was thinking of getting a Squeezebox Touch or have some sort of pc based music system but when adding up the cost of a Dac, Nas Drive and the SB Touch or a mini PC i would rather stick to CD for now and speand the money on upgrading my Amp and CDP.

Digital music does look like the future and i may get a Sonos multi room system in the future. The thing is that CDs are soo cheap to buy these days and i have done some tests with the same song via FLAC and then the original CD and i just semmed to prefer the hard copy of the CD everytime over the digital FLAC file.
 
Gareth82 said:
Yes thanks for that PP.

The Leema does appeal to me and their CDPs look good aswell. I just thought that if i was spending that much on something second hand and that is a few years old maybe i would be best to buy something more newer and upto date. You can get some good bargins second hand but some things are just silly prices (i.e. Arcam alpha 8 amps etc).

I was thinking of getting a Squeezebox Touch or have some sort of pc based music system but when adding up the cost of a Dac, Nas Drive and the SB Touch or a mini PC i would rather stick to CD for now and speand the money on upgrading my Amp and CDP.

Digital music does look like the future and i may get a Sonos multi room system in the future. The thing is that CDs are soo cheap to buy these days and i have done some tests with the same song via FLAC and then the original CD and i just semmed to prefer the hard copy of the CD everytime over the digital FLAC file.

The link I put on was a brand new Pulse from Sevenoaks. That model - same as mine - came out in 2008 and was replaced last year, so isn't old. Given that it's reduced from £1,300 to £599 makes a great bargain.

6184461571_c2567942a8_m.jpg


Looks a lot nicer than the MKIII version that replaced it.
 

Crocodile

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Gareth82 said:
I also like the look of this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Pulse-3-Integrated-Amplifier-DAC-5-Months-Old-Pulse-111-Amp-DAC-/180730302141?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2a145d8ebd

But think that it may be abit over budget.
Well it is open to offers so you could make one based on what others have sold for recently.
 

Gareth82

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Thanks for the replies.

@Rick From Music Craft: I won't forget about Rotel's RA-1062 and will keep an eye out for any at a good price.

@Plastic Penguin: Yes the link of the Leema you posted does look like a very good bargin, i also love the look and styling of it. Would you recommend also getting a Leema CDP or do you think the CD72 wuld do a good enough job with it?

@Crocodile: Yes i will keep any eye on that one, i like the idea of the Built in DAC with inputs.
 
Gareth82 said:
Thanks for the replies.

@Rick From Music Craft: I won't forget about Rotel's RA-1062 and will keep an eye out for any at a good price.

@Plastic Penguin: Yes the link of the Leema you posted does look like a very good bargin, i also love the look and styling of it. Would you recommend also getting a Leema CDP or do you think the CD72 wuld do a good enough job with it?

@Crocodile: Yes i will keep any eye on that one, i like the idea of the Built in DAC with inputs.

TBH, not heard the Leema CDP, but would imagine it should sound good. The Audiolab 8200, on the other hand, I have auditioned and matches well, as does Arcam.

Some will laugh at me saying I've heard £5k systems that doesn't significantly outgun my current set-up. It is about synergy rather just throwing shed-loads of money...
 

Gareth82

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Yes i definately agree with you that the synergy between all the components is more important then just buying the most expensive things you can buy.

I think it would be wise for me to make a short list of some Amps,CDPs and speakers that gel together well and see which ones i can get the best deals on.

Even the wife has noticed what a difference my Arcam system is compared to my old budget Sony one so it shouldn't be too hard to persued her about my future plans.
 
Gareth82 said:
Yes i definately agree with you that the synergy between all the components is more important then just buying the most expensive things you can buy.

I think it would be wise for me to make a short list of some Amps,CDPs and speakers that gel together well and see which ones i can get the best deals on.

Even the wife has noticed what a difference my Arcam system is compared to my old budget Sony one so it shouldn't be too hard to persued her about my future plans.

Wise choice - like me you have to cover all angles to satisfy the bank manager, musical taste and the Mrs. (in no particular order).
 

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