Why I have ended my love affair with CD.

[Alec]

[quote user="Ashley James"]I have to admit that I always had a loathing of record players and really didn't build up my classical music collection till CD appeared.

What amazes me is how slow Hi Fi enthusiasts have been to cotton on to Apple Computers who provide a beautifully made and Integrated home Media system. PC's are for offices and geeks and Macs are lovely friendly machines that perfectly integrate Music, TV programs, Movies and Photographs in one machine.

We discovered that people were deserting hi fi a couple of years ago when CD players sales slowed and enquiries showed it was caused by a switch to Apple. I suppose it's not surprising when you consider that 141 million iPods have sold and that some of them sound better than separates if you buy decent headphones.

PC's always have dreadful sound quality from their analogue outputs but Macs don't, they aren't bad and we've got customers who swear that their Mac Mini's sound better than £1000 CD players highly recommended by this magazine.

However the real use for a Mac is it's vastly superior user interface to any hi fi, so the whole family can use it. From the hi fi perspective, they all have optical digital outputs and can play up to 24/96 files, so all you need is a DAC (or our ADM9's).

Interestingly a number of professionals don't like what Record Companies do to their work and would like 24 bit duplicates of the originals sold alongside the normal stuff, already some are available as downloads from companies like Gimmell but also on DVD whose audio only tracks are 24 bit too. If you can play them there's a Sam Philips Album available that is regarded as very well produced.

I'd say that CD players are almost a dead duck, that few if any mechs are still made for them and then only for Audiophile die hards. It's time to look to Computers as the centre of a really good hi fi system and www.apple.com/store is the best place to start.

Ashley[/quote]

Probably a really stupid question but what exactly is this apple machine you're refering to...?

 

[Anonymous]

Now the one company that has always impressed me with it's approach to hi-fi (and a good marketing approach) is AVI. They seem to be one of few companies that ignores the pretentious atmosphere inherent with it. I know of many people which use Macs in their hi-fis and they have always sounded nothing but superb to me. I have always respected people who stuck with vinyl because it does have big ups to it (although I havn't really experienced them), but CDs only became popular due to practicality rather than quality.

24 bit is better than 16 bit FULL STOP. 192 is better than 44.1 FULL STOP. Oversampling can't resolve these issues - it's basically just like interpolating a photo...yes it's bigger, but if the detail aint there to start with, it's rubbish!

I once heard one guy at Bristol Hi-Fi show 2008 say "You can tell a good hi-fi 'cause it's better than an Ipod Shuffle with some £80 headphones." - And, sweeping statement...he was right.

 

[Anonymous]

It depends on how you want to configure your system but a Mac Min can share its screen with the TV and have a Blue Tooth Keyboard and Mouse that stay in a drawer and out of site until you need to perform computer functions. The rest of the time you use the handset provided with all Macs for Media functions. Or you can use an Apple TV that does much the same as well as streaming and syncing with any computer with iTunes in it and on the network as well as enabling you to buy TV program, watch Youtube, buy Music show your Photographs on the TV and soon rent Movies. Cost is £200.

Or you can stream to an Airport Express (£65) and use its Digital output for the hi fi, from a Laptop with iTunes in it or better still you can buy a Macbook or Macbook Pro (on which many records are made) and connect direct or use an AE.

Apple work brilliantly with wi fi and they sell Time Capsule that backs up automatically and they sell excellent network storage devices. The real joy of it all is that everything sets up so well and integrates beautifully because it all comes from the same company, the software and the hardware.

If you aren't into big TV's then a 24" iMac can do everything if you buy an Elgato eye TV. It's all on their website and I have no commercial interest in any of this.

Ashley

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Hughes123"]Now the one company that has always impressed me with it's approach to hi-fi (and a good marketing approach) is AVI. They seem to be one of few companies that ignores the pretentious atmosphere inherent with it. I know of many people which use Macs in their hi-fis and they have always sounded nothing but superb to me. I have always respected people who stuck with vinyl because it does have big ups to it (although I havn't really experienced them), but CDs only became popular due to practicality rather than quality.

24 bit is better than 16 bit FULL STOP. 192 is better than 44.1 FULL STOP. Oversampling can't resolve these issues - it's basically just like interpolating a photo...yes it's bigger, but if the detail aint there to start with, it's rubbish!

I once heard one guy at Bristol Hi-Fi show 2008 say "You can tell a good hi-fi 'cause it's better than an Ipod Shuffle with some £80 headphones." - And, sweeping statement...he was right.
[/quote]

Well i'm not sure everyone is so enamoured as you are. It would seem in your case the dog has found its master woof woof! ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not a doggy person - I prefer cats.

 

[Alec]

[quote user="Ashley James"]It depends on how you want to configure your system but a Mac Min can share its screen with the TV and have a Blue Tooth Keyboard and Mouse that stay in a drawer and out of site until you need to perform computer functions. The rest of the time you use the handset provided with all Macs for Media functions. Or you can use an Apple TV that does much the same as well as streaming and syncing with any computer with iTunes in it and on the network as well as enabling you to buy TV program, watch Youtube, buy Music show your Photographs on the TV and soon rent Movies. Cost is £200.

Or you can stream to an Airport Express (£65) and use its Digital output for the hi fi, from a Laptop with iTunes in it or better still you can buy a Macbook or Macbook Pro (on which many records are made) and connect direct or use an AE.

Apple work brilliantly with wi fi and they sell Time Capsule that backs up automatically and they sell excellent network storage devices. The real joy of it all is that everything sets up so well and integrates beautifully because it all comes from the same company, the software and the hardware.

If you aren't into big TV's then a 24" iMac can do everything if you buy an Elgato eye TV. It's all on their website and I have no commercial interest in any of this.

Ashley[/quote]

Cheers, some food for thought there, tho i suspect i can still achieve what i want with a pc. But how do apple computers sound better (assuming those in favour are right)?

 

[Anonymous]

If you can use a PC, get what you want from it and can get a suitable digital output from it, then it will probably sound OK. If it doesn't there's lots of help on sorting the problems on the Linn website. Even the digital output from a PC can give trouble because they often have driver issues. Their analogue outputs always sound awful.

Macs always have a perfect digital output and an acceptable analogue one, so there is no reason why the Mac should sound better if everything is correct on a PC. The Advantage of Mac is the user Interface in iTunes and Front Row, the build quality and reliability, their appearance and the fact that you're buying into a complete and upgradeable system that even has a good second hand value. You can keep adding bits to get what you want knowing it'll all set up easily and work and that the whole family can use.

The experience we have with our customers is that there are no issues with Macs and often difficulties with PC's that require professional assistance. I have three Dells, a Macbook Pro, an iMac, Airport Express and Base Station Extreme, network storage devices and so on and I yearn for the day when all the Windows machines are in the bin.

Ash

 

[Anonymous]

Macs generally feature digital outs as standard.

Macs generally come with a remote that accesses the Front Row interface ,which is lovely.

A common problem with Windows is the Kmixer, which resamples the audio, therefore it isn't necessarily bit perfect.

 

[Anonymous]

Ash presents a rather
one sided picture by equating a PC with a machine running a Windows
OS when the Linux OS and applications can do most of what a MAC can
do and the software is essentially free.

Saying "analogue
outputs always sound awful" will puzzle the many users of products
like the M-audio 2496 sound card and similar devices that operate
under both Windows and Linux OS.

I've built several PCs
which run Linux and have had no quality or reliability issues using
standard components and see that some of the latest Mac minis are
based on Intel technology.

If I had a PC already
and was interested in computer based hi-fi I'm not sure I'd rush to
dump it in favour of Mac machines, but I'd certainly ditch Windows in
favour of Linux.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="BrightSpark"]

Ash presents a rather one sided picture by equating a PC with a machine running a Windows OS when the Linux OS and applications can do most of what a MAC can do and the software is essentially free.

Saying "analogue outputs always sound awful" will puzzle the many users of products like the M-audio 2496 sound card and similar devices that operate under both Windows and Linux OS.

I've built several PCs which run Linux and have had no quality or reliability issues using standard components and see that some of the latest Mac minis are based on Intel technology.

If I had a PC already and was interested in computer based hi-fi I'm not sure I'd rush to dump it in favour of Mac machines, but I'd certainly ditch Windows in favour of Linux.
[/quote]

very much agree. Although i admire alot of what Apple has achieved I don't believe their products are vastly superior like some would suggest. Itunes for example is a resource hog when compared to Winamp in my experience. Then there's the DRM business. In addition to that they the aggressive marketing (now where have i seen that before???) is imo distasteful (critizing windows directly, trying to get you to download safari on itunes updates etc etc.). Anyway I believe open source be it Ubuntu, Mozilla etc etc is the way forward not just Apple like Ashley is suggesting.

 

[Anonymous]

I have both a pc and a macbook pro. After some tweaking both sound pretty much the same. However while the mac keeps running smoothly, the pc is basically continually in need of maintenance. Virus software, windows register and adwatch programs are necessary but complicated and trying my patience more and more...I'm not even going into the program bugs that frequently pop up. A month ago Firefox just stopped working on the pc, on the mac it's just fine. A friend of mine recently purchased a new laptop with windows vista running on it- the thing sometimes just shuts off by itself when in use!>Basically I would say the mac is a so much easier to live with it's hard to go back after you purchased a mac.

 

[Alec]

[quote user="Solomon1"]I have both a pc and a macbook pro. After some tweaking both sound pretty much the same. However while the mac keeps running smoothly, the pc is basically continually in need of maintenance. Virus software, windows register and adwatch programs are necessary but complicated and trying my patience more and more...I'm not even going into the program bugs that frequently pop up. A month ago Firefox just stopped working on the pc, on the mac it's just fine. A friend of mine recently purchased a new laptop with windows vista running on it- the thing sometimes just shuts off by itself when in use!>Basically I would say the mac is a so much easier to live with it's hard to go back after you purchased a mac.[/quote]

I'm no expert but it sounds like those machines have a problem, somehow. You shouldnt be having that much trouble running them and keeping them secure.

 

[Anonymous]

Solomon1, time to move to Linux - no registry, no registration, no virii. Unlike Windows, Linux OS is both a powerful destktop and networking OS, equivalent to say Windows XP pro and Windows server in one package.

Linux can also operate in a mixed OS environment, find an SSH client that operates in OS X and with this and the multi-platform media player and streaming server VLC you could use your PC as a wireless sound server.

Anyway, putting all your eggs in the Apple basket just doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="al7478"]I'm no expert but it sounds like those machines have a problem, somehow. You
shouldnt be having that much trouble running them and keeping them secure.[/quote]Well, experience may differ, but I find that windows is basically a carriage fitted with an engine...it just won't run smoothly.Back to topic: I noticed that one of Ashleys product I'm interested in -the adm 9- uses an multi bit delta sigma dac. I wonder why Ashley didn't use an 16 bit R2R dac as this is (to some hifi enthusiasts at least) the most pure option of digital to analogue conversion?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="BrightSpark"]
Solomon1, time to move to Linux - no registry, no registration, no virii. Unlike Windows, Linux OS is both a powerful destktop and networking OS, equivalent to say Windows XP pro and Windows server in one package.

Linux can also operate in a mixed OS environment, find an SSH client that operates in OS X and with this and the multi-platform media player and streaming server VLC you could use your PC as a wireless sound server.

Anyway, putting all your eggs in the Apple basket just doesn't appeal to me.

[/quote]Thanks for the advice, may take a plunge into the deep with linux when my pc needs replacement. For the mo I'm covered with both pc and mac. I'm just not ready to get used to yet another os.

 

[Anonymous]

Solomon1, it's very easy to try Liunx OS on your PC without touching your Windows install right now, there really is no reason to wait until your PC needs replacing.

Just download and burn on of the many LIiveCD Linux distros. Yes its true, you can run an entire Linux operating system off a CD or DVD drive. See the "distrowatch" website, but Ubuntu or PCLINUXOS would be good choices. If you have a 64 bit machine I'd give SIDUX a go. You don't know what you are missing

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="BrightSpark"]
Solomon1, it's very easy to try Liunx OS on your PC without touching your Windows install right now, there really is no reason to wait until your PC needs replacing.

Just download and burn on of the many LIiveCD Linux distros. Yes its true, you can run an entire Linux operating system off a CD or DVD drive. See the "distrowatch" website, but Ubuntu or PCLINUXOS would be good choices. If you have a 64 bit machine I'd give SIDUX a go. You don't know what you are missing

[/quote]I'll give it a go then. Next weekend!

 

[Anonymous]

Let us know how you get on please Solomon1, I have been thinking of binning Windows Vista for some weeks now, weather back to Windows xp or a complete move to Ubuntu.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JCR1"]Let us know how you get on please Solomon1, I have been thinking of binning Windows Vista for some weeks now, weather back to Windows xp or a complete move to Ubuntu.[/quote] I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Anonymous]

I will reply to the off topic above and then attempt to get back on topic!

I am a Windows XP Pro user and I quite like it. I do also like the idea of Ubuntu - I currently have XP Pro and Ubuntu as a dual boot options on my laptop. I have tried Ubuntu a few times now but can't get along. For example, I can't connect to my Wireless network under Ubuntu, and I wouldn't have a clue to start when installing programmes!

Anyway, back on topic...

If you have ended your love affair with CD, Squeezeboxes and Sonos are good and nice to use.

 

[JoelSim]

Well I was burgled in November and they nicked my iPod, but not my proper hifi, and not my CDs. So the only thing I lost was the very inferior iPod and all the music that had been downloaded and that I didn't have on CD. Luckily in my case it was mostly stuff I'd 'borrowed' and not paid for.

CD all the way for me, although if I had an LP12 and loads of records then vinyl would be played too.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="BrightSpark"]
Solomon1, it's very easy to try Liunx OS on your PC without touching your Windows install right now, there really is no reason to wait until your PC needs replacing.

Just download and burn on of the many LIiveCD Linux distros. Yes its true, you can run an entire Linux operating system off a CD or DVD drive. See the "distrowatch" website, but Ubuntu or PCLINUXOS would be good choices. If you have a 64 bit machine I'd give SIDUX a go. You don't know what you are missing

[/quote]Well, tried it. It's a nice OS, particularly with the open office software asnd the vlc, mplayer and totem media player. Tried my external harddrive on it and transferred some files. The system froze afterwards, I had to shut it down manually. No data lost, but not a good sign either! Furthermore, my external midi edvice doesn't like freeware very much, it's only for mac and windows. As I'm no expert in this field, I won't go into any further exploring...there were some nice programs that also run under mac or pc that I kept. Open office is great and free and also vlc player, plays every kind of video file you feed it!Before others download and install linux or any other new os on there system I would like to STRONGLY ENCOURAGE them to back all there documents, movies and other important files up using an external drive. Conclusion: nice free OS, some good programs that come free with that....But I can also have that on my mac, which is for me the best solution as I'm no expert in this field and still can get the benefits of an easy to use os that doesn't crash every now and then.

 

[Anonymous]

my sentiments entirely..
its like the thrill of driving a car or being beamed to your destination from a teleport ,,whats the fun in that....its all part of the journey through life
in the last 40 odd years i have gone from a stackable portable 45rpm gismo to wifi streaming into every room..
if evolution is true we will eventually lose the use of our limbs and just lie in bed while everything is thought transferred directly to our brains ..no wires,, no transducers,, HOW BORING ,