Why does my CD player sound better than my streamer

[kmlav]

Ok here is the thing. I have not listened to a CD for ages and all I do when I buy one is rip to my NAS and use my streamer. I’m not sure why but for some reason today I thought I know I will compare the rip to the CD and I was very surprised to hear a fairly large improvement in quality when using the CD over the rip. I don’t really want to go back to CD’s as its easier to use the streamer and all my tunes are in one place but I do want it to be of the same quality.

I use XLD for mac for the rips and they are stored on a WD drive that sits next to the HI Fi. The data goes into a netgear switch then into the streamer all connected with standard Ethernet cables. I use a external CD drive to rip the CD’s as common with every IMAC I have ever owned (there have been many) the CD drive is temperamental so I don’t bother with it but the external drive is a very good one.

The streamer is a Cyrus Stream X and the CD paly is a Arcam BDP 300 using the coax out. Both units into Cyrus Pre DAC QX with the CD player connected with the older (red) Chord Signature cable and the streamer connected with the new Chord Signature tuned array cable.

Now is the issue that I have introduced some corruption in the rip pulling the data off the CD and sending it over my home network, using Netgear plugs, and the CD to DAC is closer to the original source.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I rip all my CDs using a piece of Mac software called MAX which can be set up to ensure absolutely everything on the CD is pulled off it. - Although slow and a bit cranky with finding CD info from its online database, I find this has worked well and the Rips sound very good off my Mac mini using Audirvana Plus - (far better than my previous CD player, a Roksan Caspian M2). The files are ripped as AIFF files. (I know lossless is supposed to be just as good as the original, but storage is cheap and I'd rather have the files in the same format as they are on the CD they came from).

As an observation, I find files streamed over WiFi to be a little 'flat' sounding and have less sparkle. They sound a bit 'grey' compared to streaming over USB.

The WiFi streamer in my Devialet, whilst very good, is still not as good as a direct USB connection, to my ears.

When I stream from Qobuz in CD quality, the sound is not as good as the same track ripped to my Mac Mini.

I suspect what you are hearing is the effect WiFi seems to have on SQ. - This is just my opinion and I'm sure others will argue that what I'm saying is impossible, - but there you are!

I'm not clear from your post which bit of your set-up goes over WiFi, but in my experience, I would avoid sending anything WiFi wherever possible, unless SQ isn't your primary concern.

 

[kmlav]

I will try that MAX software and changing the file format.

Currently I rip into FLAC. The data is transfered to the NAS over a home network using those plugs into the mains. Maybe moving the NAS drive and conecting it to the MAC for the ripping will help. I will test.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I will try that MAX software and changing the file format.

Currently I rip into FLAC. The data is transfered to the NAS over a home network using those plugs into the mains. Maybe moving the NAS drive and conecting it to the MAC for the ripping will help. I will test.

Sounds like a plan....

I'm interested to know how you get on.

 

[kmlav]

I will update the post , If it does sort it out it does mean I will have to re-rip 100's of CD's

 

[chebby]

... I have nothing to back up what I say.

But it's true.

That's suprising from you

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The answer is cdplayers are better than streamers.

CD is a CD the info on it is fixed - the data

You streamer reformats data to fit everything neatly onto its memory. At a cost to the original.

Think Tron or the architect from the Matrix.

I know my cdrecoder the NAD c660 produces far superior rips to CD than any soft device.

My nephew did me q mix CD from his computer one track wad a track I did him on a CD which he ripped to it.

The quality has taken a hit.

Sadly these are my opinions and I have nothing to back up what I say.

But it's true.

 

[SteveR750]

Surely it's as simple that to your ears, your CDP is better sounding than your streamer, perhaps because it is. That does no necessarily prove that all CDPs are better than all streamers mind you, nor does it prove the opposite. The practical answer is change your streamer for one that sounds as good or better than your CDP. You've got the sounds quality you want with the practicality of a streamer.

 

[BigH]

I don't know but many say streaming is better than their cdp, so I suspect there is something amiss in your set-up. I don't know or understand the Netgear plugs, you may want to investigate those. Ripping should be as good or better than the cd, you can use software to to get bit perfect rips, free as well.

 

[SteveR750]

I don't know but many say streaming is better than their cdp, so I suspect there is something amiss in your set-up. I don't know or understand the Netgear plugs, you may want to investigate those. Ripping should be as good or better than the cd, you can use software to to get bit perfect rips, free as well.

I'd agree with this, as it's certainly been my experience (I don't own a CDP any more, and not done so for 3 years or so now). That doesn't mean though that every streamer is better than every CDP!

 

[ID.]

My take is that you prefer Arcam to Cyrus. Not sure of the retail prices of the two products and quality differences but they both have a house sound and you seem to prefer the Arcam sound.

 

[iQ Speakers]

A CD player is essentially a Streamer it's just that the data 1 & 0's come off a spinny disc not through the air, the clever bit is the analog stage in each device in this case you prefer the Arcam's DAC analog stage.

 

[ifor]

I have used Rip and Max, but now use XLD because there's been no development of Rip and Max in the last few years. My CD player is a Cyrus CD8SE and my streamer is a Raspberry Pi/HiFiBerry Digi/RuneAudio connected via HomePlugged Ethernet (Devolo) to the iMac in the room next door. I hear no difference between the two (CD player coax out into the same Arcam rDAC as the Pi) except the occasional dropout with the streamer system, which I assume is mains corruption (not sure what I mean by that),

 

[Vladimir]

The Arcam and the Cyrus feed digital signal to the same DAC, both coaxial, both from the same CD. The issue is either inaccurate rip (normalization is frequently forgoten left ON) or it is mere placebo.

 

[The_Lhc]

The answer is cdplayers are better than streamers.

CD is a CD the info on it is fixed - the data

You streamer reformats data to fit everything neatly onto its memory. At a cost to the original.

No it doesn't, that's total ********!

Think Tron or the architect from the Matrix.

Are you on drugs? That doesn't even mean anything!

 

[unsleepable]

The Arcam and the Cyrus feed digital signal to the same DAC, both coaxial, both from the same CD. The issue is either inaccurate rip (normalization is frequently forgoten left ON) or it is mere placebo.

The reason for the sound difference may actually be the standard jitter or noise from digital sources. The Cyrus Pre DAC QX does not seem to have any re-clocking mechanism, so it's the streamer or the CD player setting the clock. If one does it better than the other, it may be audible. As for noise, it'd be interesting to see if an optical interconnect has any effect on the sound.

 

[kmlav]

I am basically just using the CD player as a transport and the streamer to supply the digital data with both using the same dac with both using the same data, one the cd and the other data taken from the cd. So in principal both should sound exactly the same, which is what I'm looking for.

I am going to do some experiments today to track down the issue.

1. Connect the nas to the mac and rip the cd then return to the front room

2. Remove the network switch and connect the nas directly to the streamer

 

[adamrobertshaw]

When I listened to a Cyrus CD T and a Cyrus Stream X2, the transport always sounded better. The streamer always managed to sound a tad stuffy or still compressed. But it was a lot more convenient to browse and listen with it.

I then upgraded to a Cyrus Stream X Signature. The performance uplift was significant and brought it on a par with the transport. Internet radio sounds a lot less compressed too.

In my best system, I only have the Stream X Signature as a single source. Nothing else required.

So my advice (take it or leave it), would be to send your streamer back to Cyrus for the upgrade; and not to faff about with how you rip CDs, don't change how you store the ripped files and don't bother re-ripping.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Yes it does!

Lol..... Looks like I may have to go get my internet kung fu fighting suit from the drycleaners.....

What? ... You looking for something to do The_ Lhc?

While I am serious my post was lighthearted. If you know better let's hear it.

You come all aggressive yet provide no alternative reasoning.....

You want beef? I have beef.

The answer is cdplayers are better than streamers.

CD is a CD the info on it is fixed - the data

You streamer reformats data to fit everything neatly onto its memory. At a cost to the original.

No it doesn't, that's total ********!

Think Tron or the architect from the Matrix.

Are you on drugs? That doesn't even mean anything!

 

[kmlav]

When I listened to a Cyrus CD T and a Cyrus Stream X2, the transport always sounded better. The streamer always managed to sound a tad stuffy or still compressed. But it was a lot more convenient to browse and listen with it.

I then upgraded to a Cyrus Stream X Signature. The performance uplift was significant and brought it on a par with the transport. Internet radio sounds a lot less compressed too.

In my best system, I only have the Stream X Signature as a single source. Nothing else required.

So my advice (take it or leave it), would be to send your streamer back to Cyrus for the upgrade; and not to faff about with how you rip CDs, don't change how you store the ripped files and don't bother re-ripping.

You have almost the same set up as me DAC XP (mine is the QX not the signature), X Power , PSX-R, PMC 22's so its interesting that you found the same thing and found the upgrade to the Stream X Signature sorted things out. I will see if I can get one on home demo.

When I first got my set up I had a Denon Blu Ray player that I used for CD'd which was frankly very poor compared to the streamer and after that I never bothered with them. Then I got the Arcam BDP 300 Blu Ray player which is meant to be better with music but I never actually tried it until yesterday.

 

[The_Lhc]

The answer is cdplayers are better than streamers.

CD is a CD the info on it is fixed - the data

You streamer reformats data to fit everything neatly onto its memory. At a cost to the original.

No it doesn't, that's total ********!

Think Tron or the architect from the Matrix.

Are you on drugs? That doesn't even mean anything!

Yes it does!

Lol..... Looks like I may have to go get my internet kung fu fighting suit from the drycleaners.....

What? ... You looking for something to do The_ Lhc?

While I am serious my post was lighthearted. If you know better let's hear it.

No, no, you made the contentious statement, it's down to you to provide supporting evidence.

You come all aggressive yet provide no alternative reasoning.....

You haven't provided any reasoning at all, why should I have to? Consider this though, once a (lossless) stream or file has been unpacked, it's simply PCM digital audio, exactly the same as what's stored on a CD, if a CD player (technology that was invented 30+ years ago remember) doesn't need to "shrink the data to fit its internal memory", then why would a streamer need to do that? Modern streamers are going to have far more memory onboard than any CD player would have had. Once the audio leaves the transport (whether that's a CD drive or a network connection) there is no difference between a CD player and streamer, the underlying technology is the same.

You want beef? I have beef.

I had a lovely piece of beef last night.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Ok.... Pity you didn't choke.....

Each time you add to your hard drive it reformats itself and the data stored. It basically reorganises itself to be has efficient as it can.

Any out of place data, surplus to requirements or left over during the reorg gets discarded this data by the way is your music.

It is Incey wincey bits we are talking about and can go unnoticed but one day you'll put the original CD on and it'll sound better.

The data on the CD is fixed. it'll never be reformatted, squished to fit on your hard drive or be subject to other issues found with ref to data storage.......

Now like I said before I have nothing in way of evidence to prove this - it's how these devices/computers work.

It's a bit like the billions of pounds floating around in cyber space made up of tiny fractions of a penny...... Lol..... Sorry for laughing but , just watch superman3.

The music gets lost.

The answer is cdplayers are better than streamers.

CD is a CD the info on it is fixed - the data

You streamer reformats data to fit everything neatly onto its memory. At a cost to the original.

No it doesn't, that's total ********!

Think Tron or the architect from the Matrix.

Are you on drugs? That doesn't even mean anything!

Yes it does!

Lol..... Looks like I may have to go get my internet kung fu fighting suit from the drycleaners.....

What? ... You looking for something to do The_ Lhc?

While I am serious my post was lighthearted. If you know better let's hear it.

No, no, you made the contentious statement, it's down to you to provide supporting evidence.

You come all aggressive yet provide no alternative reasoning.....

You haven't provided any reasoning at all, why should I have to? Consider this though, once a (lossless) stream or file has been unpacked, it's simply PCM digital audio, exactly the same as what's stored on a CD, if a CD player (technology that was invented 30+ years ago remember) doesn't need to "shrink the data to fit its internal memory", then why would a streamer need to do that? Modern streamers are going to have far more memory onboard than any CD player would have had. Once the audio leaves the transport (whether that's a CD drive or a network connection) there is no difference between a CD player and streamer, the underlying technology is the same.

You want beef? I have beef.

I had a lovely piece of beef last night.

 

[matt49]

Ok.... Pity you didn't choke.....

Each time you add to your hard drive it reformats itself and the data stored. It basically reorganises itself to be has efficient as it can.

Any out of place data, surplus to requirements or left over during the reorg gets discarded this data by the way is your music.

It is Incey wincey bits we are talking about and can go unnoticed but one day you'll put the original CD on and it'll sound better.

The data on the CD is fixed. it'll never be reformatted, squished to fit on your hard drive or be subject to other issues found with ref to data storage.......

Now like I said before I have nothing in way of evidence to prove this - it's how these devices/computers work.

It's a bit like the billions of pounds floating around in cyber space made up of tiny fractions of a penny...... Lol..... Sorry for laughing but , just watch superman3.

The music gets lost.

So how come the books I've written on my PC haven't lost any letters? How come the text of my first book is exactly the same as it was when I wrote it on a PC 25 years ago?

You have no idea how data storage works.

 

[steve_1979]

Ok.... Pity you didn't choke.....

Each time you add to your hard drive it reformats itself and the data stored. It basically reorganises itself to be has efficient as it can.

Any out of place data, surplus to requirements or left over during the reorg gets discarded this data by the way is your music.

It is Incey wincey bits we are talking about and can go unnoticed but one day you'll put the original CD on and it'll sound better.

The data on the CD is fixed. it'll never be reformatted, squished to fit on your hard drive or be subject to other issues found with ref to data storage.......

Now like I said before I have nothing in way of evidence to prove this - it's how these devices/computers work.

It's a bit like the billions of pounds floating around in cyber space made up of tiny fractions of a penny...... Lol..... Sorry for laughing but , just watch superman3.

The music gets lost.

The answer is cdplayers are better than streamers.

CD is a CD the info on it is fixed - the data

You streamer reformats data to fit everything neatly onto its memory. At a cost to the original.

No it doesn't, that's total ********!

Think Tron or the architect from the Matrix.

Are you on drugs? That doesn't even mean anything!

Yes it does!

Lol..... Looks like I may have to go get my internet kung fu fighting suit from the drycleaners.....

What? ... You looking for something to do The_ Lhc?

While I am serious my post was lighthearted. If you know better let's hear it.

No, no, you made the contentious statement, it's down to you to provide supporting evidence.

You come all aggressive yet provide no alternative reasoning.....

You haven't provided any reasoning at all, why should I have to? Consider this though, once a (lossless) stream or file has been unpacked, it's simply PCM digital audio, exactly the same as what's stored on a CD, if a CD player (technology that was invented 30+ years ago remember) doesn't need to "shrink the data to fit its internal memory", then why would a streamer need to do that? Modern streamers are going to have far more memory onboard than any CD player would have had. Once the audio leaves the transport (whether that's a CD drive or a network connection) there is no difference between a CD player and streamer, the underlying technology is the same.

You want beef? I have beef.

I had a lovely piece of beef last night.

Thompson. Look up the word 'checksum'.

Data doesn't gradually get lost or corrupted over time. Every time digital data is stored or transmitted a checksum is used to ensure that it's 100% correct and is totally identical to the original data.

If data was gradually lost or corrupted during transmission or storage computers wouldn't work at all.

 

[pauln]

Ok.... Pity you didn't choke.....

Each time you add to your hard drive it reformats itself and the data stored. It basically reorganises itself to be has efficient as it can.

Any out of place data, surplus to requirements or left over during the reorg gets discarded this data by the way is your music.

It is Incey wincey bits we are talking about and can go unnoticed but one day you'll put the original CD on and it'll sound better.

Completely and absolutely wrong.

Do yourself a favour and learn how hard drives actually work particularly what reformat means and what defragmentation does.