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Why are manufacturer apps so poor?

Vargas

Member
Jul 12, 2020
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0
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I own a Denon F-109.

I mainly use the internet radio on it for background music as I work.

But the thing is. I would love to be able to change internet music station with my Windows 10 PC.

The App that Denon do for Android is crap.

So, I even looked into Yamaha who do a similar system. And judging by reviews, their App is crap also.

So why do manufacturers spend all this money developing hardware when an important feature might be control via App or PC program is important (to me at least...) ?

And if anyone to recommend a solution to changing internet radio stations on a Denon from Windows 10 - that would be great!
 

ClarkNovember

Well-known member
May 24, 2009
62
40
18,570
And if anyone to recommend a solution to changing internet radio stations on a Denon from Windows 10 - that would be great!
Have you tried Bubble UPNP? I’ve not used it on a PC but it looks like you can download a Windows version.

It should see all media devices connected to you network and you should be able to set up radio stations as favourites (possibly in the playlists section).

Sorry to be a bit vague but I had a play with the Android app a few years ago but I don’t currently use it.
 
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Vargas

Member
Jul 12, 2020
3
0
20
Actually, I just discovered Spotify (Free) does internet radio also!

But I will keep BubbleUPNP in mind.

Thanks.
 

manicm

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
598
67
18,970
I own a Denon F-109.

I mainly use the internet radio on it for background music as I work.

But the thing is. I would love to be able to change internet music station with my Windows 10 PC.

The App that Denon do for Android is crap.

So, I even looked into Yamaha who do a similar system. And judging by reviews, their App is crap also.

So why do manufacturers spend all this money developing hardware when an important feature might be control via App or PC program is important (to me at least...) ?

And if anyone to recommend a solution to changing internet radio stations on a Denon from Windows 10 - that would be great!
When you mention Denon app I assume you’re referring to HEOS? I’ve had no problem with it.

As far as manufacturers’ apps go, remember even Linn was cr@p way back in 2008. Their answer to customers? Get 3rd party apps - like Bubble - which I thought was ridiculous. It was like buying a brand new BMW, and they tell you to buy your own steering!
 

jjbomber

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2006
709
235
19,270
It was like buying a brand new BMW, and they tell you to buy your own steering!
I've got the Spotify App in the BMW and it works brilliantly. If a car can get it right, surely hi-fi companies can.

My short answer to the question is that manufactures apps are free and there's little incentive to have a bells and whistles version.
 

manicm

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
598
67
18,970
Seems a little strange to suggest that a limitation of an Atmos soundbar (in a tech review) is that your particular Samsung TV is not Atmos compatible.
I've got the Spotify App in the BMW and it works brilliantly. If a car can get it right, surely hi-fi companies can.

My short answer to the question is that manufactures apps are free and there's little incentive to have a bells and whistles version.
Well Linn have learned and now provide their own apps. I somewhat disagree with you. No one is going to buy a product that’s unusable. HEOS is nearly up there with Sonos and Bluos app. And it has to be because Marantz use it too.
 

Simon 13th note

Well-known member
BANNED
Jul 27, 2020
183
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Im not sure there is an issue is there? Just take your phone to where your Windows PC is. Sorted.

But if you really want it I’d invest in BluOS devices.

To be fair to manufacturers audio hifi gear is niche and apps and app development can be the priciest thing for them nowadays nowadays. If you want to invest in hifi above what you have my recommendation would be BluOS, Sonos, or better still Roon.
 

manicm

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
598
67
18,970
Im not sure there is an issue is there? Just take your phone to where your Windows PC is. Sorted.

But if you really want it I’d invest in BluOS devices.

To be fair to manufacturers audio hifi gear is niche and apps and app development can be the priciest thing for them nowadays nowadays. If you want to invest in hifi above what you have my recommendation would be BluOS, Sonos, or better still Roon.
There is no excuse. Like modern cars, manufacturers of connected hifi need to realize they’re in the software space more than ever and they need to up their game. Life is tough - get over it - and customer is King. If you can’t take the heat etc.

It took Linn 10 years and they’re finally providing end-to-end software for their streamers. Denon have really matured HEOS.

Some are using DTS Play-Fi - good, not great but getting there.

My main indirect beef with Roon is when manufacturers like B&W who had the audacity to launch streaming products with incomplete house software, and forcing the customer to purchase ROON. The Formation products are very expensive and B&W should have thrown in a free voucher for the permanent licence, or at least subsidised it at 50%.
 
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Simon 13th note

Well-known member
BANNED
Jul 27, 2020
183
72
170
There is no excuse. Like modern cars, manufacturers of connected hifi need to realize they’re in the software space more than ever and they need to up their game. Life is tough - get over it - and customer is King. If you can’t take the heat etc.

It took Linn 10 years and they’re finally providing end-to-end software for their streamers. Denon have really matured HEOS.

Some are using DTS Play-Fi - good, not great but getting there.

My main indirect beef with Roon is when manufacturers like B&W who had the audacity to launch streaming products with incomplete house software, and forcing the customer to purchase ROON. The Formation products are very expensive and B&W should have thrown in a free voucher for the permanent licence, or at least subsidised it at 50%.
yeah customer is king i agree and they should up their game, but it still doesn’t get over the economics. The reason Roon is so good is because you pay for it, same with sonos app supported by huge sales of streaming speakers. But where niche manufacturers exist it often means they are crap. Cyrus cadence being the worst I’ve ever tried.
 

Al ears

Moderator
There is no excuse. Like modern cars, manufacturers of connected hifi need to realize they’re in the software space more than ever and they need to up their game. Life is tough - get over it - and customer is King. If you can’t take the heat etc.

It took Linn 10 years and they’re finally providing end-to-end software for their streamers. Denon have really matured HEOS.

Some are using DTS Play-Fi - good, not great but getting there.

My main indirect beef with Roon is when manufacturers like B&W who had the audacity to launch streaming products with incomplete house software, and forcing the customer to purchase ROON. The Formation products are very expensive and B&W should have thrown in a free voucher for the permanent licence, or at least subsidised it at 50%.
I would agree regarding B&W, it's a bit like a tax to listen to your music. I wonder how much this lost them in potential sales.
 

Niallivm

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2019
58
31
570
I would agree regarding B&W, it's a bit like a tax to listen to your music. I wonder how much this lost them in potential sales.
I’ve been a B&W customer for twenty years but the Formation range is unattractive, underwhelming and just too expensive for my needs. I have now opted for Sonos for my TV and ambient listening - the App works well on my Apple platforms and Qobuz sounds fine to these aging ears
 
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