Who has digitised their vinyl?

[tino]

As always, the digital brigade miss the whole point of owning and playing records. Anyone who wants to copy all their records to a digital file, doesn't love vinyl, I do, and I have no intention of ever wasting my time copying them to a digital format.

I had a turntable (a Linn Axis) and you are right ... I didn't love it at all. I prefer my music served digitally and that's the most important thing for me. If vinyl is your thing then that's OK too ... to each their own. I have no intention of wasting my time playing vinyl records ... it wasn't for me, but that's how I started off. That said I wanted to keep the music I already had so digitizing was the best option to archive the music (and I still have the LPs/singles carefully stored).

The point of this thread was to share experiences of "digitizing" vinyl. I went through the rather time consuming process of doing it. Playing the record once to "clean it", then playing it again to record it using an external USB recording card with proper phono equalisation at 24-bit/96kHz resolution. Then post processing the music to separate it out into individual tracks, clean up any scratches, then normalise / adjust the gain. Then tagging everything. The actual recording is not the time consuming bit, it's the post processing bit. I used Creative Media Toolbox software to do this with good effect.

 

[keeper of the quays]

Did it years ago, (I think I used either Magix Audio Cleaning Lab or Cubase Wavelab and a pro DAC (Can’t remember which one) and I can guarantee that there is absolutely no difference between the digitised sound (Either in standard FLAC or burnt to CD) or the original vinyl. (Assuming the they are played back on the same system with a quality DAC)

The master for a vinyl record has to be more compressed than a CD because vinyl has a limited dynamic range (About 50-60db) compared to the CD, (About 96db) hence the difference in sound is purely down to the mastering. (The same reason for a difference between 16/44 & 24/96)

I do wish people would get their old school science books out, as many seem to have forgot even basic facts, this ignorance also makes the Hi Fi buff look like a joke in the pro (Real) world. (Actually their words are a lot stronger, but this is a family forum)

Bill

science versus my hearing? My hearing wins hands down.as I said before very good cdp sound close to vinyl..presumably the greater range that you speak about is unearthed by the better electronics? I can attest to this as I have both cheaper and decent cd players..but where it falls is if vinyl doesn't have the range? Why do better turntable etc sound better? If vinyl is so limiting? Why are the worlds most esoteric hifi vinyl based? People believe their ears...

I believe this may go some way to explaining it.  *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

had a look, video won't play! So I'll never know now!!! Lol...hows it going with the turmeric?

 

[tino]

Just a thought ... would anyone be able to tell the difference between [a] playing a vinyl record and playing a digital recording of [a]? If there was no difference, and assuming you had bought the record what would be the point of [a] other than watch it spin round? *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[BigH]

Did it years ago, (I think I used either Magix Audio Cleaning Lab or Cubase Wavelab and a pro DAC (Can’t remember which one) and I can guarantee that there is absolutely no difference between the digitised sound (Either in standard FLAC or burnt to CD) or the original vinyl. (Assuming the they are played back on the same system with a quality DAC)

The master for a vinyl record has to be more compressed than a CD because vinyl has a limited dynamic range (About 50-60db) compared to the CD, (About 96db) hence the difference in sound is purely down to the mastering. (The same reason for a difference between 16/44 & 24/96)

I do wish people would get their old school science books out, as many seem to have forgot even basic facts, this ignorance also makes the Hi Fi buff look like a joke in the pro (Real) world. (Actually their words are a lot stronger, but this is a family forum)

Bill

science versus my hearing? My hearing wins hands down.as I said before very good cdp sound close to vinyl..presumably the greater range that you speak about is unearthed by the better electronics? I can attest to this as I have both cheaper and decent cd players..but where it falls is if vinyl doesn't have the range? Why do better turntable etc sound better? If vinyl is so limiting? Why are the worlds most esoteric hifi vinyl based? People believe their ears...

I believe this may go some way to explaining it. *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

had a look, video won't play! So I'll never know now!!! Lol...hows it going with the turmeric?

Yes it does.

 

[keeper of the quays]

Did it years ago, (I think I used either Magix Audio Cleaning Lab or Cubase Wavelab and a pro DAC (Can’t remember which one) and I can guarantee that there is absolutely no difference between the digitised sound (Either in standard FLAC or burnt to CD) or the original vinyl. (Assuming the they are played back on the same system with a quality DAC)

The master for a vinyl record has to be more compressed than a CD because vinyl has a limited dynamic range (About 50-60db) compared to the CD, (About 96db) hence the difference in sound is purely down to the mastering. (The same reason for a difference between 16/44 & 24/96)

I do wish people would get their old school science books out, as many seem to have forgot even basic facts, this ignorance also makes the Hi Fi buff look like a joke in the pro (Real) world. (Actually their words are a lot stronger, but this is a family forum)

Bill

science versus my hearing? My hearing wins hands down.as I said before very good cdp sound close to vinyl..presumably the greater range that you speak about is unearthed by the better electronics? I can attest to this as I have both cheaper and decent cd players..but where it falls is if vinyl doesn't have the range? Why do better turntable etc sound better? If vinyl is so limiting? Why are the worlds most esoteric hifi vinyl based? People believe their ears...

I believe this may go some way to explaining it.  *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

had a look, video won't play! So I'll never know now!!! Lol...hows it going with the turmeric?

Yes it does.

just says video not working...its a plot! So I can't access this knowledge..i blame the illuminati...

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

The point of this thread was to share experiences of "digitizing" vinyl. I went through the rather time consuming process of doing it. Playing the record once to "clean it", then playing it again to record it using an external USB recording card with proper phono equalisation at 24-bit/96kHz resolution. Then post processing the music to separate it out into individual tracks, clean up any scratches, then normalise / adjust the gain. Then tagging everything. The actual recording is not the time consuming bit, it's the post processing bit. I used Creative Media Toolbox software to do this with good effect.

I have nearly 2000 records (with more coming every week), and if I did that every time I copied one, I'd be dead before I finished them all. Do what you want, but to me, it's time wasted p****** about, which could be better spent listening.

 

[BigH]

Did it years ago, (I think I used either Magix Audio Cleaning Lab or Cubase Wavelab and a pro DAC (Can’t remember which one) and I can guarantee that there is absolutely no difference between the digitised sound (Either in standard FLAC or burnt to CD) or the original vinyl. (Assuming the they are played back on the same system with a quality DAC)

The master for a vinyl record has to be more compressed than a CD because vinyl has a limited dynamic range (About 50-60db) compared to the CD, (About 96db) hence the difference in sound is purely down to the mastering. (The same reason for a difference between 16/44 & 24/96)

I do wish people would get their old school science books out, as many seem to have forgot even basic facts, this ignorance also makes the Hi Fi buff look like a joke in the pro (Real) world. (Actually their words are a lot stronger, but this is a family forum)

Bill

science versus my hearing? My hearing wins hands down.as I said before very good cdp sound close to vinyl..presumably the greater range that you speak about is unearthed by the better electronics? I can attest to this as I have both cheaper and decent cd players..but where it falls is if vinyl doesn't have the range? Why do better turntable etc sound better? If vinyl is so limiting? Why are the worlds most esoteric hifi vinyl based? People believe their ears...

I believe this may go some way to explaining it. *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

had a look, video won't play! So I'll never know now!!! Lol...hows it going with the turmeric?

Yes it does.

just says video not working...its a plot! So I can't access this knowledge..i blame the illuminati...

Must be your system then.

 

[davedotco]

Did it years ago, (I think I used either Magix Audio Cleaning Lab or Cubase Wavelab and a pro DAC (Can’t remember which one) and I can guarantee that there is absolutely no difference between the digitised sound (Either in standard FLAC or burnt to CD) or the original vinyl. (Assuming the they are played back on the same system with a quality DAC)

The master for a vinyl record has to be more compressed than a CD because vinyl has a limited dynamic range (About 50-60db) compared to the CD, (About 96db) hence the difference in sound is purely down to the mastering. (The same reason for a difference between 16/44 & 24/96)

I do wish people would get their old school science books out, as many seem to have forgot even basic facts, this ignorance also makes the Hi Fi buff look like a joke in the pro (Real) world. (Actually their words are a lot stronger, but this is a family forum)

Bill

science versus my hearing? My hearing wins hands down.as I said before very good cdp sound close to vinyl..presumably the greater range that you speak about is unearthed by the better electronics? I can attest to this as I have both cheaper and decent cd players..but where it falls is if vinyl doesn't have the range? Why do better turntable etc sound better? If vinyl is so limiting? Why are the worlds most esoteric hifi vinyl based? People believe their ears...

I believe this may go some way to explaining it. *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

had a look, video won't play! So I'll never know now!!! Lol...hows it going with the turmeric?

Yes it does.

just says video not working...its a plot! So I can't access this knowledge..i blame the illuminati...

They are far too busy working with ISIS in an attempt to immenentise the eschaton to be bothered messing with youtube.

No, this is not a joke

 

[Electro]

Did it years ago, (I think I used either Magix Audio Cleaning Lab or Cubase Wavelab and a pro DAC (Can’t remember which one) and I can guarantee that there is absolutely no difference between the digitised sound (Either in standard FLAC or burnt to CD) or the original vinyl. (Assuming the they are played back on the same system with a quality DAC)

The master for a vinyl record has to be more compressed than a CD because vinyl has a limited dynamic range (About 50-60db) compared to the CD, (About 96db) hence the difference in sound is purely down to the mastering. (The same reason for a difference between 16/44 & 24/96)

I do wish people would get their old school science books out, as many seem to have forgot even basic facts, this ignorance also makes the Hi Fi buff look like a joke in the pro (Real) world. (Actually their words are a lot stronger, but this is a family forum)

Bill

science versus my hearing? My hearing wins hands down.as I said before very good cdp sound close to vinyl..presumably the greater range that you speak about is unearthed by the better electronics? I can attest to this as I have both cheaper and decent cd players..but where it falls is if vinyl doesn't have the range? Why do better turntable etc sound better? If vinyl is so limiting? Why are the worlds most esoteric hifi vinyl based? People believe their ears...

I believe this may go some way to explaining it. *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

had a look, video won't play! So I'll never know now!!! Lol...hows it going with the turmeric?

If youtube doesn't work for you try it on Vimeo, it's better quality too.

https://vimeo.com/25761812

I have bought some capsules and started taking them, there has not been any major improvement yet but I will give them a few more weeks before making a judgement. *smile*

 

[tino]

I have nearly 2000 records (with more coming every week), and if I did that every time I copied one, I'd be dead before I finished them all. Do what you want, but to me, it's time wasted p****** about, which could be better spent listening.

Your mileage may vary, and in your case, it doesn't make sense for you with your 2000 strong collection .... you might even reach old age before being able to listen to all your record collection all over again, assuming you could find the track or album you wanted ;-)

Digitizing new stuff might make sense as you have to listen it to at least once, and you may want to listen to your purchased music in other scenarios e.g. on the move, in your car, or on holiday

 

[Gray]

I'm glad I asked. Thanks for very interesting responses, I've read the lot so far.

I was forced to manually tag and find (the highest resolution) artwork for many of around 1000 CDs when I ripped them. That's why I've got massive respect for the likes of Tino (See post 26) It's impossible to overestimate the amount of effort he's put into digitising vinyl. That would be me, as I'm an obsessive faffer - as long as I only have to do it once. On the other hand BigBernardBresslaw is right that you could easily die before completing your collection - before you start actually listening to it!

As for the sound of vinyl. I could play you my K-tel / Ronco LPs. 'Original hits by original artists' - is where the good news ends. Each track is the width of a human hair, crammed 20 per side of the disc (quite wide hairs then). Lowering the stylus onto the track of your choice is like winning the lottery. A small scratch can be heard throughout 3 songs. You watch as the stylus rides high on the groove giving you very low output. You would not be impressed.

Or, I could play you my 12", 45 rpm of The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. A very well recorded 2 minutes and 19 seconds only (The original Essex Radio theme) has been cut accross the width of the vinyl. (The sort of groove you could ride a bike in).... Unbelievably great sound. (If not as good as when I once stood amongst the RPO on a stage whilst they were rehearsing)

There's vinyl and there's vinyl. The differences between those two examples are as great as anything I've heard.

It helps of course, that at 45 rpm there's 35% more vinyl going past the stylus than there is at 33.3 rpm. I'm sure others would agree that, unless you've played a well recorded 12" 45 rpm single, you have not heard your turntable at its best.

 

[MrReaper182]

After all these years you can still only buy some albums on vinyl (hard to believe that) so I have so I can listen to those albums on the go through my portable Sony hi-res music player.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I have nearly 2000 records (with more coming every week), and if I did that every time I copied one, I'd be dead before I finished them all. Do what you want, but to me, it's time wasted p****** about, which could be better spent listening.

Your mileage may vary, and in your case, it doesn't make sense for you with your 2000 strong collection .... you might even reach old age before being able to listen to all your record collection all over again, assuming you could find the track or album you wanted ;-)

Digitizing new stuff might make sense as you have to listen it to at least once, and you may want to listen to your purchased music in other scenarios e.g. on the move, in your car, or on holiday

I've got loads of albums that haven't been near the turntable yet, just owning the record is a pleasure in it's self.

If you knew how much time and thought I've devoted to filing my records, you'd know that I can always find what I want pretty quickly.

I'm really not that bothered about listening to my music outside of the house. I have a digital radio with 6 Music on most days, at work, and in the van to and from work, but I very rarely listen to the radio at home, home is for records.

 

[TrevC]

Many moons ago one of my then young daughters digitised an LP of mine. It was never quite the same again.

 

[MajorFubar]

I've got loads of albums that haven't been near the turntable yet, just owning the record is a pleasure in it's self.

That's not being a vinyl lover, that's just being a record collector.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I'm glad I asked. Thanks for very interesting responses, I've read the lot so far.

I was forced to manually tag and find (the highest resolution) artwork for many of around 1000 CDs when I ripped them. That's why I've got massive respect for the likes of Tino (See post 26) It's impossible to overestimate the amount of effort he's put into digitising vinyl. That would be me, as I'm an obsessive faffer - as long as I only have to do it once. On the other hand BigBernardBresslaw is right that you could easily die before completing your collection - before you start actually listening to it!

As for the sound of vinyl. I could play you my K-tel / Ronco LPs. 'Original hits by original artists' - is where the good news ends. Each track is the width of a human hair, crammed 20 per side of the disc (quite wide hairs then). Lowering the stylus onto the track of your choice is like winning the lottery. A small scratch can be heard throughout 3 songs. You watch as the stylus rides high on the groove giving you very low output. You would not be impressed.

Or, I could play you my 12", 45 rpm of The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. A very well recorded 2 minutes and 19 seconds only (The original Essex Radio theme) has been cut accross the width of the vinyl. (The sort of groove you could ride a bike in).... Unbelievably great sound. (If not as good as when I once stood amongst the RPO on a stage whilst they were rehearsing)

There's vinyl and there's vinyl. The differences between those two examples are as great as anything I've heard.

It helps of course, that at 45 rpm there's 35% more vinyl going past the stylus than there is at 33.3 rpm. I'm sure others would agree that, unless you've played a well recorded 12" 45 rpm single, you have not heard your turntable at its best.

I have a ted heath and his orchestra recording on Decca wide band it's a early live stereo recording..its close to as good as it gets. In terms of warmth and ambience..the engineering is superb!

 

[MajorFubar]

I have no intention of ever wasting my time copying them to a digital format.

It wouldn't be a waste of time if you have a record you can't buy on CD or download and you want to listen to it away from your turntable. That was my main reason.

 

[MajorFubar]

I have a ted heath and his orchestra recording on Decca wide band it's a early live stereo recording..its close to as good as it gets. In terms of warmth and ambience..the engineering is superb!

Yeah he was a great band leader, I think he made a big mistake going into politics.

*biggrin*

 

[steve_1979]

I've been considering digitizing my Foo Fighters Sonic Highways LP. This is because it's been mastered with a higher DR than the digital version and it has a better sound as the result. If I do I'll just use the venerable Behringer UCA-202 to do the job of the ADC.

I wouldn't bother digitizing any of the others though. What's the point unless I find another album which is mastered better on the LP than the digital version?

 

[drummerman]

Me thinks some folks on here really don't get it (the ones that say that a digital copy of a vinyl record is exactly the same).

That may be so at the time of recording. Now if you change your cartridge or the stylus was worn out, hell, even a change of downforce can make a record sound different.

So, you may get an 'exact copy' of your pressing at the time of recording but that is it. Any change in the turntable hardware and/or settings will change the sound.

You do not get that by 'digitising' records plus, imho, completely misses the point (other than in my other post in the thread, if, for example you want to preserve something very rare or plan to give up on vinyl).

 

[davedotco]

Me thinks some folks on here really don't get it (the ones that say that a digital copy of a vinyl record is exactly the same).

That may be so at the time of recording. Now if you change your cartridge or the stylus was worn out, hell, even a change of downforce can make a record sound different.

So, you may get an 'exact copy' of your pressing at the time of recording but that is it. Any change in the turntable hardware and/or settings will change the sound.

You do not get that by 'digitising' records plus, imho, completely misses the point (other than in my other post in the thread, if, for example you want to preserve something very rare or plan to give up on vinyl).

You are aware that you are allowed to digitise your vinyl more than once?

Aren't you?

I understand that there is more to 'listening to vinyl' than just listening to the music, but really?

I had to realign my cartridge every few months to preserve the sound quality, now if I just had some way of preserving that sound when the settings were absolutely spot on...*unknw*

 

[BigH]

Me thinks some folks on here really don't get it (the ones that say that a digital copy of a vinyl record is exactly the same).

That may be so at the time of recording. Now if you change your cartridge or the stylus was worn out, hell, even a change of downforce can make a record sound different.

So, you may get an 'exact copy' of your pressing at the time of recording but that is it. Any change in the turntable hardware and/or settings will change the sound.

You do not get that by 'digitising' records plus, imho, completely misses the point (other than in my other post in the thread, if, for example you want to preserve something very rare or plan to give up on vinyl).

Great way of comparing different settings, cartridges or any other tweaks (do they really work or was in my mind). So after a while you think your cartridge is not sounding so good its easy to check. Maybe you have your phono stage modified, at least you can check before and after.

 

[steve_1979]

Great way of comparing different settings, cartridges or any other tweaks (do they really work or was in my mind). So after a while you think your cartridge is not sounding so good its easy to check. Maybe you have your phono stage modified, at least you can check before and after.

Good idea.

 

[davedotco]

Even when mounted on a very stable turntable setup, I found with reasonably heavy use that hi-end moving coil cartridges needed re-setting every month or two.

I'm talking top end Koetsu and Kiseki models here, the issue was variable compliance as the 'suspension' seemed to vary (loosen) with wear. Resetting VTA and tracking weight was essential.

Relevant in the sense that a digital recording, made when all the settings were 'spot on', could be made and would not be subject to variation. Lesser players, LP12s for example, would benefit as recordings could be made immediately after a 'reset', with the player sounding at it's best/

 

[keeper of the quays]

Even when mounted on a very stable turntable setup, I found with reasonably heavy use that hi-end moving coil cartridges needed re-setting every month or two.

I'm talking top end Koetsu and Kiseki models here, the issue was variable compliance as the 'suspension' seemed to vary (loosen) with wear. Resetting VTA and tracking weight was essential.

Relevant in the sense that a digital recording, made when all the settings were 'spot on', could be made and would not be subject to variation. Lesser players, LP12s for example, would benefit as recordings could be made immediately after a 'reset', with the player sounding at it's best/

good advice..us with lesser turntables! Need help! There doesn't seem to be a any adjustment on my 78 player? I tried a toothpick instead of steel pin..and polished the cabinet.i found Mr sheen gave more 'air' around the instruments but Tesco own brand gave a tad more soundstage!