Which one will give 3D soundstage, upgrade my amp? or add a DAC?

[admin_exported]

Hi all,

I was considering of an another upgrade on my system and I am not sure which one will give me more benefit. Due to demo limitations in my country I can not bring my components to test every possible setup I'm interested in. I want to shortlist first which amp I can upgrade to, to have more 3 dimentional sound. Or, am I better with adding DAC on my system?

I once heard a plinius 9200 with bookshelf dynaudio and denon cdp, and all I can remember is pin point imaging from front to back, with vocal clarity and openness. The sound was very natural and liquid. I've tried some tube amp before but I missed some details that the solid state can provide.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

This is a difficult one to judge and is most likely a combination of the amp and source that's not giving you the sound you crave. In my experience a speaker upgrade made the biggest difference to the factors you list but many would disagree that it's always the best approach to the problem. Those AVI Neutrons are hugely capable speakers though.

I would seriously consider trying some better amps as your first port of call. Source is important but in my experience of other's systems the amp tends to be more deficient. This tends to be twofold; the pre amp section and the power amp, of equal concern for pre/power and integrated amps.

Power amp part first. If you have more than enough current delivery available for your speakers then the they will be controlled with much more accuracy. The amp can keep grip of the drive unit and drive a better timed, more resolved and spacious sound. With more control you should expect gains in clarity, 3d sound stage, dynamics, speed, etc.

The power amp needs a good signal before it can give you give you a good sound. The pre amp will have a big impact on the detail, noise floor, sound stage and scale of the sound. I've gone from rubbish pre to good pre and the change in focus and sound stage was great.

It would be worth trying a different source but your might get greater gains with a better amp.

 

[JoelSim]

Have you tried moving your speakers around until the soundstage is at its best?

 

[drummerman]

khian:
Hi all,

I was considering of an another upgrade on my system and I am not sure which one will give me more benefit. Due to demo limitations in my country I can not bring my components to test every possible setup I'm interested in. I want to shortlist first which amp I can upgrade to, to have more 3 dimentional sound. Or, am I better with adding DAC on my system?

I once heard a plinius 9200 with bookshelf dynaudio and denon cdp, and all I can remember is pin point imaging from front to back, with vocal clarity and openness. The sound was very natural and liquid. I've tried some tube amp before but I missed some details that the solid state can provide.

Thanks.

Funny you mention Denon CDP. Whilst it is impossible to generalise for the whole range, they (Denon players) seem to be more 'transparent' than some others. A lot of modern players/DAC's project forward. Whilst that gives the impression of more detail they seem to loose some depth and focus, imo crucial to 'transparency'. Denon players seem to project more to the rear of the speakers, sacrificing a little edge and forwardness. It's of course a combination of all components that make up the resulting sound and I would not go as far and say older players are better. As regards to tube amps missing detail, there are so many different products of the breed that it would be just as impossible to put them all under a blanket.

 

[the record spot]

That's an interesting mix and match of equipment; I wouldn't be inclined to alter the amp given as it's typically reviewed well and is generally pretty highly regarded. Have you tried Joel's suggestion? Or taking out the Yaqin tube stage or the sub to experiement?

My inclination would be to start with the simplest route you can have to playing music - amp, CDP and speakers. Work out what elements of the system works and which ones don't. I go with the simplest route possible hence the kind of set-up I typically aim for. You just need to sit back and determine what sound you want to hear viz that which you are. My gut feeling is a source improvement, but failing that a decent DAC (I'd be inclined to seek out an alternative from the DacMagic and there are a good few out there to try) and use the Marantz 6002 as a transport.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys. Yes, I have tried playing with speaker positioning and have always turn off the sub when playing music ( I only use sub when watching movies and want to play rock in high volumes) . The denon cdp I mentioned is an old model which I beleive is at least 2003 or earlier model (sorry I forgot the exact model). Before, when I didnt have the Yaqin buffer, the soundstage is not that different to what I have right now.

 

[Anonymous]

my amp is Plinius 8200mk2, a bit older than 9200 but similiar. I have to say Plinius is really hard to beat, when "proper" power is fed. When push to the full potential, Plinius has solid state soundstage, with tube like organic sound.

Try get a dedicated power line for your amp, or at least upgrade your power/wall socket, it doesn't only give more dynamic, it also makes the soundstage deeper and much more dimensional, and it's very cost/performance effective.

 

[Anonymous]

karmatogral, did you notice big improvement on soundstage when you upgraded your power? I am not sure if my amp is sensitive enough on power cable upgrades.. Maybe I need to barrow from someone and try myself before buying..

 

[Anonymous]

Before I upgrade my wall socket to "Furutech" I was feeling the upgrade bug, I thought maybe i should replace my Plinius, cuz the combo with Spendor generates really nice sound but way too laid back, i experimented with the tube on my DAC as well, though it only improved the soundstage a bit.

Nothing was that noticable until I upgrade with furutech (i haven't had a dedicated line yet), at first i didn't really pay much attention to it, but a week later, I heard something truly amazing. The details were much better, the soundstage became really deep, and wide as well, I then realised that my old Plinius needs proper power to work its best. So I'd imagine a dedicated line would make it even better!

Therefore I'd only suggest an upgrade for your amp, or add DAC if you are looking for a different sound, if you are happy with the sound but want better soundstage, you can try working on power.

About the powercord for your amp, for me it does change the sound, I think any amp would benefit from big flowing power, I'm using Siltech at the moment, thinking of upgrading to their silver+gold PC, I thought about Nordost but they're too pricy for upgrade game. I read their(Nordost) top of the line powercord give really decent soundstage and separation on all the recorded instruments.

Good luck with that

Karmatogdral

 

[Anonymous]

khian:karmatogral, did you notice big improvement on soundstage when you upgraded your power? I am not sure if my amp is sensitive enough on power cable upgrades.. Maybe I need to barrow from someone and try myself before buying..getting a better amp then cd player is the way to go for the moment

apart from plinius look at electrocompaniet and audio analogue also and try to demo with your own speakers as that will tell you which component is the problem

the whole mains power thing is yet to be proven and if it works at all will only do so if you have poor power to begin with

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the tips karmatogdral. I only want improvement in soundstaging and have a pin point location of voice and instrument. In terms of musical timbre and natural sound, my system is capable of reproducing it, especially if the tube buffer is in place.

 

[Anonymous]

khian:I only want improvement in soundstaging and have a pin point location of voice and instrument. In terms of musical timbre and natural sound, my system is capable of reproducing it

Then you should first of all care about speaker positioning.

 

[plastic penguin]

khian:

Hi all,

I was considering of an another upgrade on my system and I am not sure which one will give me more benefit. Due to demo limitations in my country I can not bring my components to test every possible setup I'm interested in. I want to shortlist first which amp I can upgrade to, to have more 3 dimentional sound. Or, am I better with adding DAC on my system?

I once heard a plinius 9200 with bookshelf dynaudio and denon cdp, and all I can remember is pin point imaging from front to back, with vocal clarity and openness. The sound was very natural and liquid. I've tried some tube amp before but I missed some details that the solid state can provide.

Thanks.

I presume you mean virtual surround sound? If that's so then it's a little tricky because you every frequency working in tandom. My system achieves that with good recordings, but I would seriously look at Roksan Kandy. This amp has a collossal amount of presence (certainly the old LIII). When I tested this amp it probably came closer than any amp at the price at reproducing live music.

Alternatively, the Leema Pulse has realism beyond most amps I've heard. I've been banging the Leema drum for a while with good reason: it produces a sound like little else at the price. The bass is very taut and detail comes in spades; produces a 3D sound beyond its price -- yet it isn't overpowering, never harsh or "bright". The soundstaging is sublime, and it times suberbly.

 

[Anonymous]

try moving the speakers again, but try this formula:

measure the width of your room .... then:

place the speakers 0,447 x room width from the back wall (distance from back wall to front of speaker cabinets)

place the speakers 0,276 x room width from side walls (side wall to centre of speakers)

place both speakers pointing straight ahead, then listen and see if soundstage has improved ... then get someone to toe the speakers in and out as you listen till you find the 'sweet spot'

if there is no improvement, I would then look at replacing the cdp first before the amp or speakers