• If you ever spot Spam (either in the forums, or received via forum direct message) please use the Report button at the bottom of each post to make sure a Moderator can handle it quickly. Thanks for your help in keeping things running smoothly!

whats more important , speakers or amp ???

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.
A

Anonymous

Guest
This is all subjective obviously but I think the gap in sound quality between a £200 and £2000 amp is not as great as the difference between speakers of the same price.

Amps costing more than double what mine cost are not that much better . It would be a waste of money. The difference between my B&W 601s2 and my ATCs was absolutely massive though.
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
284
6
18,895
$1k amp + $1k CDP + $10k speakers will sound very close to $10k amp + $10k CDP + $10k speakers

$10k amp + $1k CDP + $1k speakers will not sound very close to $10k amp + $10k CDP + $10k speakers
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
284
6
18,895
davemartin01:I have read the word "synergy" being used and from reading this forum and others it is easy to see how hard it is to get this "synergy". The majority of posts are from people wanting to upgrade this, upgrade that, not happy with this, etc etc. To me this says people are just not happy with their original purchases. Is this the case? Or is it something else? Who is to blame? Is it magazines pushing "best buys" or poor salesmen selling mismatching gear? Or are people buying blind from recommendations from forums?

That's just human nature at work. Sound quality is subjective and not quantifiable. Therefore, nobody knows what level they've actually achieved or what improvement is still possible. So some people keep thinking their existing system can still be improved on. We seek perfection yet we can never know how close we are since it's not measurable.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i noticed a fair improvement when going from br5s to my rx6s , and then found slightly more of an improvement when going from my nad c326 to the marantz ..

i wonder , is there more performance to be found in these speakers ? from a leema pulse maybe .. everyone seems to think thats a great amp ..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
jaxwired:
$1k amp + $1k CDP + $10k speakers will sound very close to $10k amp + $10k CDP + $10k speakers

$10k amp + $1k CDP + $1k speakers will not sound very close to $10k amp + $10k CDP + $10k speakers

that sure makes sense to me...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
there will definately be more to be had from your speakers. Its not a a case of expensive amps on cheaper speakers being pointless. Just that speakers make a bigger difference in shaping your sound. Getting a balance is ideal.

I have no doubt that a £2k amp will make a dramtic difference to my system but my speakers are my starting point. I could probably get an amp up to 5 or 6 grand before it became time to look for new speakers. Not that thats going to happen though!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You're all wrong
!

You must get the basics right first, namely the electricity and cables. Get yourself a decent mains spur, add a proper conditioner, buy yourself cables and interconnects costing at least the same price as tha amp and speakers and only then can you have decent Hifi.

Source, amp and speakers are entirely peripheral.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hmmm , the route i will take is new amp , probably at the end of the year , and maybe a new cdp next year , poss rega appolo ..

thats it then , finito...
...

 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,885
233
20,070
maxflinn:

i noticed a fair improvement when going from br5s to my rx6s , and then found slightly more of an improvement when going from my nad c326 to the marantz ..

i wonder , is there more performance to be found in these speakers ? from a leema pulse maybe .. everyone seems to think thats a great amp ..

Max, the Leema would sound leagues better than the Marantz or Nad, but you're asking a broad question: yes, the it will bring the best from the RX6, although whether the Leemas tonal qualities are to your liking is another question, hence why you have to listen. Then you have to decide would the tonal qualities of the Leema synergise with your room acoustics? Once you've crossed those hurdles, ask yourself: "can I live with sound?" especially if you plan to keep it for a number of years. there are other questions like is it easy to system match?

That's why my recent audition I pitted it alongside the Roksan Caspian. Both are fabulous. Both very different.

The benefits with budget gear is they aren't so fussy when it comes system matching, room acoustics (to a lesser extent) so on and so forth.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
bobbyg81:I bet youll have a wee listen to the ATCs at some point!
cant afford too , id probably love em


na , my rx6s are more than good enough for my room , i adore their style too , gorgeous things ....

but a leema pulse ? hmmm
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
537
24
18,895
It wasn't that long ago when the most common advice was Linn Sondek with a budget amp and speakers, on the basis of rubish in, rubbish out. I guess that the variation in quality from cheap to expensive is much less with a CDP than a TT, but the problem is that there are so many variables, not leats of which individual prefernces / hearing that means there are no 'rules'. It makes sense to start off by matching by price but it could end up a completely unbalanced system cost wise but perrfectly acceptable sound wise.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
plastic penguin:maxflinn:

i noticed a fair improvement when going from br5s to my rx6s , and then found slightly more of an improvement when going from my nad c326 to the marantz ..

i wonder , is there more performance to be found in these speakers ? from a leema pulse maybe .. everyone seems to think thats a great amp ..

Max, the Leema would sound leagues better than the Marantz or Nad, but you're asking a broad question: yes, the it will bring the best from the RX6, although whether the Leemas tonal qualities are to your liking is another question, hence why you have to listen. Then you have to decide would the tonal qualities of the Leema synergise with your room acoustics? Once you've crossed those hurdles, ask yourself: "can I live with sound?" especially if you plan to keep it for a number of years. there are other questions like is it easy to system match?

That's why my recent audition I pitted it alongside the Roksan Caspian. Both are fabulous. Both very different.

The benefits with budget gear is they aren't so fussy when it comes system matching, room acoustics (to a lesser extent) so on and so forth.
aye the leema is the only one from the contenders that i dont think is available anywhere in ireland though pp

i believe i can demo roksan , exposure , creek though , and i will when funds are ready , when is your next demo pp ???
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,885
233
20,070
maxflinn:

plastic penguin:maxflinn:

i noticed a fair improvement when going from br5s to my rx6s , and then found slightly more of an improvement when going from my nad c326 to the marantz ..

i wonder , is there more performance to be found in these speakers ? from a leema pulse maybe .. everyone seems to think thats a great amp ..

Max, the Leema would sound leagues better than the Marantz or Nad, but you're asking a broad question: yes, the it will bring the best from the RX6, although whether the Leemas tonal qualities are to your liking is another question, hence why you have to listen. Then you have to decide would the tonal qualities of the Leema synergise with your room acoustics? Once you've crossed those hurdles, ask yourself: "can I live with sound?" especially if you plan to keep it for a number of years. there are other questions like is it easy to system match?

That's why my recent audition I pitted it alongside the Roksan Caspian. Both are fabulous. Both very different.

The benefits with budget gear is they aren't so fussy when it comes system matching, room acoustics (to a lesser extent) so on and so forth.
aye the leema is the only one from the contenders that i dont think is available anywhere in ireland though pp


i believe i can demo roksan , exposure , creek though , and i will when funds are ready , when is your next demo pp ???

Next Thursday (tomorrow week)


When I go and audition I always take a notbook with me. That may sound a little OTT, but I come away and scan through it a day or two later.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
jaxwired:
$1k amp + $1k CDP + $10k speakers will sound very close to $10k amp + $10k CDP + $10k speakers

$10k amp + $1k CDP + $1k speakers will not sound very close to $10k amp + $10k CDP + $10k speakers

Lot of "absolutes" in there jaxwired; in my own experience, it's not borne out.

I have £500 speakers, which today might be in the £800+ bracket possibly. An amp which would be somewhere at least around the same (not many handbuilt amps anymore) and a CDP which was £600.

I had been using a budget Sansui (the AU-217) and though it was very good, there's no way I'd even remotely consider a direct comparison and your analogy fits. In fact, now, with the higher quality amp, it sounds way above what I thought was possible. With the 217 in place, and bearing in mind it's the same 'family' of amps, it didn't sound like a £800-worth of anything. It sounded like there was more to come, so, it was like a £200 amp with higher quality gear capable of much more.

Nice idea, but I doubt you can get the silk purse all of the time from the pig's ear.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think there are different 'rules' at different price points due to the law of diminishing returns.I would hazard a guess that this law kick in around the £3k mark. As you say though there is certainly no absolutes!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
plastic penguin:maxflinn:

plastic penguin:maxflinn:

i noticed a fair improvement when going from br5s to my rx6s , and then found slightly more of an improvement when going from my nad c326 to the marantz ..

i wonder , is there more performance to be found in these speakers ? from a leema pulse maybe .. everyone seems to think thats a great amp ..

Max, the Leema would sound leagues better than the Marantz or Nad, but you're asking a broad question: yes, the it will bring the best from the RX6, although whether the Leemas tonal qualities are to your liking is another question, hence why you have to listen. Then you have to decide would the tonal qualities of the Leema synergise with your room acoustics? Once you've crossed those hurdles, ask yourself: "can I live with sound?" especially if you plan to keep it for a number of years. there are other questions like is it easy to system match?

That's why my recent audition I pitted it alongside the Roksan Caspian. Both are fabulous. Both very different.

The benefits with budget gear is they aren't so fussy when it comes system matching, room acoustics (to a lesser extent) so on and so forth.
aye the leema is the only one from the contenders that i dont think is available anywhere in ireland though pp


i believe i can demo roksan , exposure , creek though , and i will when funds are ready , when is your next demo pp ???

Next Thursday (tomorrow week)


When I go and audition I always take a notbook with me. That may sound a little OTT, but I come away and scan through it a day or two later.
i look forward to your views , and this time , please dont tease us
we gots to know , thursday evening
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's quite simple. Head down to your local hifi shop, and do the following test.

Choose two sets of speakers, one pair in the £200 to £300 range and one pair in the £2000 to £3000 range. Match them up to a £300 amp and see which sounds better.

Repeat the test, this time with a £2000 amp and see which sounds better.

Repeat the test with the £2-£3000 speakers on the £300 amp and the budget speakers hooked up to the expensive amp and see which sounds better.

In every case the expensive speakers will sound better because, let's face it, they are. So why would you want to buy the expensive amp/budget speakers combination? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Source first I can understand but amp first? No.
 

Phil Townsley

New member
Jul 24, 2009
0
0
0
It all comes down to the old maxim, "Rubbish in - rubbish out". If you don't get a decent CD player and amp but the speakers are very analytical, you'll hear every imperfection. Of course if the speakers are poor you will not hear what the CD player and amp are producing. Best bet is to make sure everything in the system is the best you can afford.
 

jaxwired

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2009
284
6
18,895
bobbyg81:I think there are different 'rules' at different price points due to the law of diminishing returns.

Spot on.

I also agree there are no absolutes.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
I love how the word "better" becomes the absolute barometer on discussions like this. I wouldn't expect £3000-worth of speaker to sound bad, I just wouldn't expect them to make a £300 amp and CDP sound better than they really are you know?

And when chosen with care, rather than just being quite simple about it - in more ways than one - less expensive equipment will very often sound better than the price tag suggests, accepting that there are limitations on all things...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the record spot:I love how the word "better" becomes the absolute barometer on discussions like this. I wouldn't expect £3000-worth of speaker to sound bad, I just wouldn't expect them to make a £300 amp and CDP sound better than they really are you know? They won't, and that's not being claimed. But speakers do have a large influence on the sound, certainly larger than amp or CD player, which they do allow to sound as good as they can.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
It's the "certainly larger than the amp or CDP" I disagree with.

I've swapped the lot in recent years and each had as great an impact as the other. Clearly so. Try swapping my CDP for an Audio Analogue Paganini, the depth that suddenly appears is like night and day, my current amp is miles ahead of anything I've used now that it's been put back into shape again and that includes some current kit.

So to say "the speakers allow the amp to sound as good as they can" ahead of the other two is a non-starter for me. The speakers are but one point in the chain - they won't sound great with average kit, just as high quality budget speakers will eventually limit the abilities of excellent midrange or higher end kit.

It's all about the balance but sometimes you only realise how limited great speakers are when you finally partner them with a superb amp.

All three have equal importance, treating one with greater than the other two (or however many) just limits the possibilites/potential.
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
0
18,890
jaxwired:Bad speakers add 10 times more distortion than bad amps or CDPs (probably more like 500 times more).The only drawback there is that the speakers are reproducing those nasties being produced by the amp and CD. You can have the best speakers in the world, but they'll be conveying to you the harsh edginess of cheap components.

Now, a truly awful amp or CDP will ruin your sound, but a decent HiFi specific budget amp and CDP can sound incredible with great speakers.It can, until the novelty wears off and you realise what you're really listening to....

Any awful product will ruin the whole system, regardless of what the rest of the system is.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS