What to do about my new Sony WH-1000XM3?

[Deleted member 188533]

No don't pay more for the 599 than the 560S. Reviews of audio stuff are quite subjective since we all hear things a little differently but from what I'm seeing the 'better' reviewers are saying the 560S is a bit overpriced at $200 US. But that takes into account that here in the US we have access to Drop ( formerly Massdrop ) and the HD6XX which is an HD650 with different paint for $200-$220 depending on sale price. Import fees will kill that value for you. The 650/6XX also needs an amp and the better the amp the better it will sound. The 560S isn't picky like that.

A few good reviews.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpTLtoeQGpM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy4gvpz_SIc

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sw9DzZaO7o

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Whatever headphone you eventually go for please come back and let us know what your thoughts are

 

[aussie43]

Yes, I will.

I will send the XM3 back and see what they decide. That particular store is sold out of XM3, don't know if they can get any more from Sony. I don't want the XM4 even if they offered it to me which they probably won't.
So they may offer me a refund. I could probably claim refund anyway under the Aus Consumer Laws.
Then I will see what next.

And thanks to everybody for your help !!

 

[Gray]

Could you let me in - explain - what you mean in your second sentence?

Certainly.
I have not heard the HD599, but I own the old HD590 and I suspect their sound signatures may be very similar, i.e. a distinctly warm tonal balance, some might describe it is veiled, many would consider it to be a comfortable sound. Compared to this, the 560S could easily be perceived as harsh.
If you've watched / read as many 560S reviews as I have, you may well have seen the following comparison (not with the 599).
People will tell you that YouTube reviews are useless for judging sound (of course some very obviously are). In this case he's not even driving both pairs of h/p with the same amp. He's using in-ears with their own mics to let us hear what he's hearing. Regardless of the limitations, you can clearly hear a difference. It's his reaction to the difference that explains some of the comments you've read.
He will have come to this with preconceptions from other reviews, but (apparently) this is the first time he's set ears on the 560S.
Note how he tries the 560S first, with no obvious issue. Only after he tries what he describes as the 'muddy' pair, does he come back and start turning his nose up at the 560S.
My point is, that in isolation, both are good headphones, each perfect for somebody. Quick comparisons really highlight differences:

View: https://youtu.be/YTBaqSX2RzA?t=230

Take my own generalisations with a pinch of salt as, so far I've only compared 590 / 560S sound directly from a cheap (though not bad sounding) Lenovo laptop.
If you prefer a warm sound, with a bit of gravitas in the bass and lower mids, the 560S may not be for you.
If you prefer an even balance from top to bottom, a neutral sound albeit slightly more 'lightweight' overall, then the 560S could be just what you need.
This subjective lark really is just that - highly subjective.
You see, I thought I would have a clearer preference between my 2 current models......no wonder people own 5,6 or more pairs .

 

[Deleted member 188533]

8 *cough*

And I only keep the ones I love. I've returned or sold many more. But hey, it's cheaper than doing it with speakers!

 

[Gray]

it's cheaper than doing it with speakers!

I've often thought that was the theory.
But there are exceptions:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4GShAbEb4

 

[Deleted member 188533]

OK so it's easier on my bad back than speakers!

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I've often thought that was the theory.
But there are exceptions:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4GShAbEb4

Time to start selling some of my organs... how much do you get for a kidney these days?

 

[aussie43]

If you prefer a warm sound, with a bit of gravitas in the bass and lower mids, the 560S may not be for you.
If you prefer an even balance from top to bottom, a neutral sound albeit slightly more 'lightweight' overall, then the 560S could be just what you need.

Thanks for the link.
I watched the video. This is the first review where I could hear how HPs sound. I normally stay away from Youtube because of heavy accents hard to understand, and a lot of hype. But this one was good.
The 560s sound on the bright side, so I don't think it will be for me.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Deleted member 188533]

From what I've seen and read I wouldn't call them bright. Bright is a DT990 or a Grado anything that makes your ears bleed. Most reviewers call them a very good value if the Drop HD6XX ( HD650 ) isn't available to you for the same price.

What's your total budget? You tend to like more classical type music? Source is the H170 Pro gaming?

H170 PRO GAMING - Support

www.asus.com

I don't see mention of a headphone amp but Asus is capable of doing audio quite well.

Some other options:

The HD600 ( or HD650 ) Even used. You can put new pads on it. Still one of my all time favorites. I personally like the 600 better than the HD650.

AKG K712 Pro- Underrated. Huge, natural soundstage that's just addictive. Most comfortable pair I own.

The HD599. Still a solid choice for an entry level headphone.

It's late and I can probably come up with more choices later.

 

[Deleted member 188533]

Honestly I'd try the 560S.

 

[Gray]

Honestly I'd try the 560S.

.....and you're right, they're not bright but right.
But right is very wrong to some people!

 

[Gray]

The 560s sound on the bright side, so I don't think it will be for me.

Just bear in mind what I said about comparitive differences Aussie.
One consolation, you will agree - to be able to percieve brightness as a 77 year old, you're one of the lucky ones.

 

[aussie43]

What's your total budget? You tend to like more classical type music? Source is the H170 Pro gaming?

H170 PRO GAMING - Support

www.asus.com

I don't see mention of a headphone amp but Asus is capable of doing audio quite well.

The motherboard -
The specs do not say that, but the Asus website says that it has a headphone amplifier to drive 300 Ohm quality gaming headphones -









I found another website with more details -





I also looked (again) at the specs for the Sony XM3, and found this -



Apart from short tests of bluetooth and noise cancellation, I only used the XM3 with cable, and switched Off.

So - is it possible that the treble distortion I experienced with them was due to impedance mismatch?


My budget is whatever the finance minister approves.
I like music. but I don't spend enough time listening to it. Still, I would like to try good headphones. But I don't want this to become a hobby for sinking money into. I did it with electric trains and photography, but those were times with 8% interest rates..

Now, with the MB capable of driving 300 Ohms, I am thinking maybe I could afford the HD 600, the HD 6XX or the HD 58X Jubilee.
The Drops are not available in Australia at the moment. The shop that handles them says end of April 2021 at the earliest. Drop people don't want to ship to Australia.
The HD 600 (new version, without the freckles) is AUD50 more than the 6XX.
Is the 6XX worth waiting for? 5 months is a long time for a 77 yo guy with cardio-vascular disease .

Would I degrade the HD 600 if I drive it from the motherboard? I don't think the Realtek ALC1150 and the TI R4580 amp are hi-fi grade, although they call it HD Audio.
Eventually I could buy DAC/Amp. But they do not have equalisers, and I would like to have one. So perhaops a good sound card.

Life wasn't meant to be easy.
I would welcome any comments.

 

[Deleted member 188533]

The HD6XX is an HD650 with different paint. It's a great value but I've always liked the HD600 better. I have not heard the new HD600 and I don't know if there was a driver revision.

The HD650/6XX has a wider soundstage than the HD600 and a mid bass bump which warms everything up comparatively. The 650 is perfect for vocal jazz and classic rock. The 600 is more flat neutral. I have a friend who bought the 650 almost exclusively for Barogue Music and was disappointed. He found them too warm.

Another great choice in the same price rage would be the HiFi Man Sundara.

 

[ThisIsJimmy]

Hello

Appreciate this is an old thread, and not sure if any specific IT troubleeshooting has been done yet. To work out how consistent this is.

1. Do you see discrepancies between Wired and wireless on these tracks?
2. Have you tried 'wired' from a different computer or source to discount the onboard sound codec or local processing?

For me, the immediate thing for any piece of IT equipment that is smart is 'am i running the most up to date drivers and firmware?'

Firstly: On checking your audio drivers, it seems that nothing has been updated on them since 2016, so imagine these should be up to date: You could always try re-installing them to make sure: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/misc/audio/Audio_Realtek_Driver.zip

Secondly, are you on the most recent firmware for the headphones? This can be found here: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/...nes-bluetooth-headphones/wh-1000xm3/downloads

Jimmy

 

[aussie43]

Hi Jimmy

The Sony WH-1000XM3 is gone, and I am awaiting refund from the seller. It is a nice product for active people on the go, but not for my needs. It was a mistake on my part to buy it. Whether it was faulty, or not fit for my purpose (high vocals), I may never know.
Regarding the mode of operation, I wanted headphones that would be the best in a wired situation - analog to analog.
I had the latest FW, and tried them briefly on bluetooth. It worked OK and the vocals might have been slightly better, but I would not want to use bluetooth when I am at home.

It is all water under the bridge now.
There is a brand new Sennheiser HD 600 sitting in a box under the Christmas tree downstairs. It came from Sydney where there is an outbreak (about 30 cases) of Covid, so it will wait in the quarantine for a couple of days before I try it. I am too busy now anyway.

I am sure I have the latest drivers on my PC. If I still have the same problem with the HD 600, I will have to suspect the PC hardware.
I don't have another PC, but have a couple of laptops in the house, and a Sony AVR to try it with.

I will come back after Christmas.

A very Merry Christmas to everybody out there.

Joe

 

[ThisIsJimmy]

Hi Jimmy

The Sony WH-1000XM3 is gone, and I am awaiting refund from the seller. It is a nice product for active people on the go, but not for my needs. It was a mistake on my part to buy it. Whether it was faulty, or not fit for my purpose (high vocals), I may never know.
Regarding the mode of operation, I wanted headphones that would be the best in a wired situation - analog to analog.
I had the latest FW, and tried them briefly on bluetooth. It worked OK and the vocals might have been slightly better, but I would not want to use bluetooth when I am at home.

It is all water under the bridge now.
There is a brand new Sennheiser HD 600 sitting in a box under the Christmas tree downstairs. It came from Sydney where there is an outbreak (about 30 cases) of Covid, so it will wait in the quarantine for a couple of days before I try it. I am too busy now anyway.

I am sure I have the latest drivers on my PC. If I still have the same problem with the HD 600, I will have to suspect the PC hardware.
I don't have another PC, but have a couple of laptops in the house, and a Sony AVR to try it with.

I will come back after Christmas.

A very Merry Christmas to everybody out there.

Joe

Hi Joe

Cool. I don't think their was alot more you could have done, and based on how you are using them you were right to swap them.. The best use case for the Sony WH-1000XM3 is if you do a lot of air miles to make best use of the noice cancelling like the Bose Quietcomfort QC35s. The HD600 are a great choice of cans for the replacement!

Merry Christmas and enjoy your Christmas Present!

Jimmy

 

[aussie43]

Happy and high fidelity New Year to everybody!

So I have returned the Sony WH-1000XM3, and bought Sennheiser HD 600, hoping that I will no longer hear what I call distortion of the high powerful soprano and tenor voices.

I was wrong. It turns out that the better the headphones are, the more I hear it.

So, what is the problem? Is it the PC sound chips? (BTW - there is no problem driving the 300 Ohm HD 600 from my motherboard - it has a headphone amplifier.)
The PC could contribute perhaps, but I tried an optical feed into my Sony AVR, and I can still hear the distortion, even with speakers.
The same when I play a CD on a stand-alone player connected to the AVR, and listen to the music on speakers or headphones.

So it looks like that it is my hearing. Too sensitive to harmonics, while generally my hearing of high frequencies is poor when tested by a simple sine tone. Sounds strange, but I can't think of anything else.
Maybe there is a bit of contribution from the recording, and from the PC amplifier.

I can see the offending spots on the frequency spectrum display in Audition. They are the harmonics in the
2.5 kHz to 5 kHz band. Too laud. I can select them one by one and bring them down, but that would be too laborious, because just about every opera aria and some pop has them.

My solution is to use a parametric EQ. I like parametric because I can see the response curve. With multiband EQs it is not possible.
I have installed the Equaliser APO and a VST plugin called TDR Nova as shown below. It was quite easy to get the desired curve. I am lifting the mid range a bit to compensate for my hearing loss.




The EQ curve looks quite drastic, but surprisingly, to my ears it sounds good. The music sounds a bit fuller than before.
And there is no harshness in the high tones.

So going back where it all started - with the Sony WH-1000XM3, there was nothing wrong with them.
But I would not go back to them even if I could.
They are not intended to be wired to a PC for 95% of their use. They are for people on the go, and for different type of music I listen to.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

That's a damned shame Aussie, really sorry to hear it. Can't praise you enough for trying though mate

 

[ThisIsJimmy]

Hi @aussie43 .

That sounds like it could be a mains noise issue if you are seeing issues across multiple devices and you are picking it up on a spectrum monitor.

- Do you get any hum through your speakers/sub when not in use, or on your pc when not playing any music?
- Do you have your devices sharing multi-power adapters? If so what other devices are they shared with?

Jimmy

 

[jackteet]

I tried some Pink Floyd and Genesis tracks on Spotify. My "faulty" headphones don't have any problems with that type of music.

If you're interested I can post links to some Spotify and/or Youtube pieces where I hear the distortion spots.

Interestingly, I also bought Avantree Aria Me headphones for TV watching (low latency), and these - when connected by cable - can handle all the problematic spots without any distortion. I haven't tried them yet over bluetooth.
Makes me wonder. The Aria Me is half price of the XM3, and also heavily oriented towards bass.

Hi Aussie43, I am looking to purchase Avantree Opera, HT5009 or HT280. Overall are you pleased with your Avantree h/phones. thanks jack

 

[aussie43]

Hi Aussie43, I am looking to purchase Avantree Opera, HT5009 or HT280. Overall are you pleased with your Avantree h/phones. thanks jack

Short answer - I was not pleased, so I send them back. But I did not have the phones you are thinking of buying.
I had the Oasis Plus BT transmitter and the Aria Me headphones.
For the premium price they were not premium products. The Aria Me sounded just OK, but the selling point - the idea of compensating for my hearing deficiency - did not work. The app is very basic. Setting up and pairing with the transmitter was not straight forward. The switches on the transmitter are fiddly.

I think the Opera, being one integrated device, is better if you only want it for TV watching. With the HT5009 or HT280 you have the flexibility to use the headphones for other things, but you lose the convenience of the charging stand.
I would have probably tried the Opera, but it was not available yet.

I ended up buying my second set of Sony RF995RK. They are not a 'premium' product either, but are cheaper and very convenient for TV watching. The sound is crisp (my opinion) and I understand spoken word well using it.
The first set lasted me only 13 months and then one ear cup broke off. But I took the risk and bought another set hoping it will last longer.