What PC or Mac?

[SteveR750]

I am almost certainly going to sell my amost new CD6SE and get myself a laptop, for a couple of reasons - primarily because I dont own one myself and when I leave my current job at the end of the year, so does my laptop, and I need it for all the usual internet stuff, plus Adobe Lightroom for picture processing. I cannot really afford to get a laptop and keep the CDP so it makes sense to me to combine the two. Portability is not important, but speed and RAM is as Lightroom is a memory hungry (the RAW and finished jpgs are stored on a separate hard drive so Hard drive size is not so critical.

Question is, since I am a lifelong windows user, and need to be able to carry on using excel, word etc what would be a good PC with a good quality colour faithful screen to go for for arond £500 - £600, or shold I take the plunge and look for a macbook? I am reluctant to do this, one because I am partly an applephobe because of their pricing which is poor VFM, and secondly its a whole new O/S and potential interface / software compatibility with the rest of the business world...any advice welcomed

 

[John Duncan]

Tricky, primarily because of budget. The tools available to you on Mac are better (you can swap Lightroom for Aperture, which has a better interface IMO, if less seamless integration with Photoshop). I also find that Macs handle the memory requirements of image processing somewhat better than Windows XP and Vista did (though 7 may be better, don't know).

That said, it's not that much of a chore to do what you want to do on Windows, Apple does have foibles of its own, and £600 will buy you quite a lot of Windows laptop*

* does it *have* to be a laptop - 600 quid will buy you even more desktop and a *much* better screen?

 

[both.of.me]

I know what you mean about apples price's!

on paper it looks like a pc (windows based) laptop would be miles faster than a similarly priced mac-book but it just isn't true!

due to the fact that windows as an operating system is amazingly power hungry and the way that osx uses and allocates it's resource's the mac is as fast if not faster!

I use an old G5 power mac (the towers made before the mac pro!) 5 years on it's still wipes the floor with the majority of mid priced pc's

if you look at pc spec's from back then you wouldn't even be able to run windows 7 on one now let alone programs as well

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Once you replace the CDP with a notebook, how are you going to play you music? From external harddrive, but via digital out or via analog out? if digital out, you then will need either a DAC with USB input or your notebook needs to have optical out and you need a DAC wit optical in. Only a few PC notebooks have optical out but most if not all macs have them. I think there is also an option of having a USB-to-spdif coax converter like M2Tech - and many dacs have coax and optical in. another option is firewire out but those dacs are normally too expensive and are hardly an option.

I am not an expert in macs so cannot comment on mac software but yes it will be a learning curve if you switch and yes they are more expensive than PC. Common opinion is that macs are 'better' for music as they provide unmodified digital out without any need for additional set-up - if it is important to you - (in Win you need additional software) and for photography they are consistent with colour management across the brand hardware, obviously (unlike PCs wehre there are dozens and dozens of different hardware manufacturers and therefore more need for colour management).

 

[DavieCee]

Jeez Steve, HiFi, cycling, photography, coffee and now Mac. It's getting scary!

I went through the switch about 3 years ago and I understand your concerns but there is no going back now.

For a while you will have to think about commands that you do automatically just now but they will become automatic in time. Software is available for low prices if not free, that will import/export Word, Excel etc. The transition will be both easier and quicker than you imagine. To give you an idea look at this...

http://www.apple.com/support/switch101/

As a bonus, the earphone out is a 3.5mm optical digital out or analogue. Whichever you prefer.

 

[Anonymous]

Once you've got used to a Mac (meaning forgetting your Windows customs), Windows is no longer an option...

Apple computers are more expensive, but they're generally more solid, with less problems and longer life, and if you've got medium computer skills there's no need for support.

 

[Anonymous]

What software do you already own ? Do you currently have a Microsoft Windows based PC ?

My recommendation when coming from nothing or a PC background is to go for a Windows 7 PC with 4GB RAM and an SSD, although given the budget the SSD may have to come later, a large capacity HDD or something like a WD scorpio black will do in the meantime. For your editing it would be desirable to have a decent resolution, nice and bright, although I don't like the glass screens the colour reproduction does tend to be fairly accurate, maybe if your budget extends go for a 17" screen unless you already have an established setup with a decent monitor or only do the occasional edits on the go.

Sound wise, the other posters are correct, you'll have to check carefully that you can output via optical, most PC's will duplex the headphone socket (some duplex MIC/Headphone), a lot of laptops these days will have HDMI and 7.1 audio, maybe this is an option. I've used and been pleased with Dolby Digital Live in the past.

Cheapest refurbished Mac currently available via Apple is £719, I've seen them for £649 before now.

Ultimately - and I always say this - it's a case of having the right tool for the job.

To set the record straight the Mac is not the ultimate nirvana, it has exactly the same problems as any other operating system and sometimes has more quirks *cough * AVCHD * cough *

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the short reply, to further address some of your concerns.

PC to Mac compatibility can be an issue initially but there are plenty of resources and conversion programs plus instructions and work arounds from many helpful web sites where others have migrated from Windows to OSX. Don't forget you can use Bootcamp and Virtualisation, I have Bootcamp for Work and VMWare Fusion using the Bootcamp partition when I'm left short.

High prices and poor VFM. On the face of it this seems true, four years ago I bought a Dell Precision M90, 2.16Ghz, 4Gb RAM, SSD, BD drive, 17" 1920 x 1200 resolution screen with 512Mb nVidia graphics card, just under £3k, now worth about £400 (?).

An Apple product is actually as comparable in price as a PC it's the little bits that you don't appreciate such as quality of components and chipsets. My MBP for example has a proper SATA 2 (3Gb) interface, couple that with the fact it has a decent built in web cam, ambient light sensor, illuminated keyboard and gesture trackpad, it also has the anti glare option on the screen which is actually one of the best 17" panels I've seen, period. Therefore there is more to it than a simple statement on a technical specs list.

An Apple will hold it's value better (relatively) compared to most PC's.

O/S wise both OSX and the fantastic Windows 7 are easy to use, I'd say Windows 7 has the edge over OSX (try changing the MTU on Snow Leopard !).

 

[Anonymous]

I'm also a fairly new switcher to macs well coming up 2 years actually. Before I would just use a PC for browsing and iTunes, but the software it come's with is amazing.. since owning the machine I've edited old family movies on iMovie and made minor edits and slide shows with iPhoto and even started to learn the guitar with Garage band.

I even started using it in a corporate exchange environment and it's been good.

Window's 7 is much improved and I recently gave it a try but it's still quite a ways behind the Mac. Once you get Mac you can install Windows 7 so you can enjoy both if you like.

Personally, I'd stretch the budget and get a Mac

 

[Anonymous]

In a lot of respects Windows 7 is ahead of Apple, there is certainly no area that it lacks behind, OSX is in much need of a proper revamp in recent years Apple have just concentrated on their new big ticket seller the "i" products.

The software bundled with Windows 7 is also very good, the movie editing software movie maker is superior to iMovie and the libraries feature is excellent. Photo wise editing is restricted to a revised Paint application but you can get a decent photo package for not much money Paint Shop Pro X3 can be had for around £35, the cut down Adobe products are awful.

 

[landzw]

I switched to an imac after many years of pc's which i was heavily into gaming , the problems i had with pc's was constant ( mainly software )

Though i no longer play games the change over to my imac was simple , not once has my imac played up , it takes a little bit to learn but its real simple

There is software for everything you need , though you may need to do a little searching to find it and yes it may cost a bit more than what the pc software is but you know its a quality product and you don't get software issues

I've tried windows 7 and basically it what windows should of been in the first place though there are some people finding issues with it .

For microsoft the upgrade of the OS is a big money maker for them and causes a lot of problems for the consumer on every upgrade , but with macs upgrades are a fraction of the price making each upgrade simple and not a head ache

Ok i admit apple macs aren't for everyone so i would advise popping into an apple store and having a play .

All i know is that i won't / can't go back to a windows operating system

Did i mention if you'r into apple gadgets how easy everything works together?

 

[SteveR750]

Thanks for all the repolies....

@JD - no it doesn't *have* t be anything in particular, but it must have:

- Calibratable (is that a word?) screen - doesn't matter if its stand alone, i.e. PC or laptop with a separate screen etc. I know that an iMac has the advantage that the screen is suitable for image processing.

- Software to edit MS Office docs, e.g excel, word etc.

- As a music source I will be connecting to an external DAC, ripping all of my CDs with EAC to an external hard drive library, and streaming spotify.

I would prefer it to be:

- Portable

- Cheap (including any additional software costs, a new PC would require a copy of MS Office for example, what does an iMac need?)

- Reliable

My initial conclusion from friends / family who are pro photographers would be to get the mac because of its ease of use and screen quality, but I wanted to check whether a latest gen PC/laptop solution might be comparable at a lower price. I am currently using a basic Fujitsu Esprimo laptop that comes with my job, and is loaded up with lightroom etc. 2nd hand value of any machine is unimportant as I don't intend to sell it, but I will need to factor in depreciation (which is or traditionally has been high with a PC)

EDIT - just want to add that I want to keep using Lightroom, its superb. I know Capture has the edge on the image processing certainly with shadow detail, but most people won't spot that, and the other features make LR brilliant. I don't use, and don't intend to add photoshop.

The other progs I use are all window based - usual MS office including project, I have added quite a few additional bits of software that I use regularly that are probably available for OSX also.

 

[John Duncan]

You need a Windows machine. There really is no alternative to MS Project for Mac, certainly not that offers compatibility if you collaborate with others. I do however use Open Office (or NeoOffice) on all my own machines, which offer about 99% MS Office compatibility (which is more than can be said for MS Office for Mac

).

Lightroom is growing on me after a couple of days working with it, though I still say that Aperture edges it in usability (though it's a moot point after the above).

In conclusion then, given your budget, I'd get a reasonably specced Windows 7 desktop machine and an enormous, top notch screen. I'm shying away from the laptop option because you're going to lose quality of screen and reliability (or at the very least repairability). If you want all of that and laptopiness too, I'd be inclined to up my budget, I'm afraid.

 

[DavieCee]

Portable - It must be a laptop.

Cheap - It won't be a Mac

Reliable - Historically I would say it must be a Mac but Windows is getting better, apparently.

Calibration - Most screens can be calibrated but for image processing you really need an external device (cost). I would also recommend a matte screen (non-reflective).

Software - MS Office on a PC or Mac (I have no experience of Projects), open source (free), or Apple has iWork which imports/exports MS docs and is cheap (compared to Office).

Basing your purchase on cost will inevitably end up being a PC. I went for a MacBook Pro 17" matte screen and don't regret it for a second. Yes, it is expensive, very expensive, but then to most people so was my HiFi, my bike, my camera and my whisky

.

 

[SteveR750]

DavieCee:
Portable - It must be a laptop.

Cheap - It won't be a Mac

Reliable - Historically I would say it must be a Mac but Windows is getting better, apparently.

Calibration - Most screens can be calibrated but for image processing you really need an external device (cost). I would also recommend a matte screen (non-reflective).

Software - MS Office on a PC or Mac (I have no experience of Projects), open source (free), or Apple has iWork which imports/exports MS docs and is cheap (compared to Office).

Basing your purchase on cost will inevitably end up being a PC. I went for a MacBook Pro 17" matte screen and don't regret it for a second. Yes, it is expensive, very expensive, but then to most people so was my HiFi, my bike, my camera and my whisky

.

Hmmm, I don't need Project, but do need excel and word and ppt.

If I got a laptop, I would get a stand alone screen anyway.

Whisky, that's another on the list (islay malts are my favourites)

 

[Anonymous]

I know you're moving away from a mac but I have one and i know you can parallel install windows on Boot Camp. Not sure if windows 7 works but certainly XP can be installed. I'm going to try it soon, I'll let others know what happens, yikes. It allows you to choose windows or Mac at startup, pretty cool huh?

I have also used windows 7 and was impressed with it, much quicker and cleverer than XP but still has some infuriating bugs. Still, a laptop with windows 7 would do nicely.....

 

[professorhat]

Or you can use something like Parallels or VMware Fusion which lets you run Windows as a virtual machine at the same time as the Mac OS X so you don't have to reboot each time. Both can run Windows 7 (even the 64-bit editions). You just need to ensure you've got a machine with enough RAM to handle this (2 GB at least I'd say, so shouldn't really be an issue with most new machines). The disadvantage of this is, you have to buy one of the above (about £50 to £60) and you'll have to buy a Windows license too, so adds another £70 to £80 odd to your costs.

Therefore, I have to say, though I love Macs, I do use Office for Mac and although it's okay, it's not as good as the Windows version (unsurprisingly). And iWork is no substitute for Office (no matter what Apple might have you believe!). So if one of the main things you're using is Office, then get a Windows 7 laptop.

 

[WishTree]

Hi,

AS few other have mentioned before, if MS Office is a must then it has to be running Windows 7 dedicatedly. I made a move to Macbook an year book, as lots of people adviced me then of the possible alternatives to MS Office. But when I really started using it, I only realised that none of the alternatives are working as effectively even worse some of the edited documents loose format when a Windows user receives it. So, I sold the Macbook and switched back to PC Laptop.

Now I made my peace with Apple and have a Mac Mini which does all the HTPC duties as well as Photo Processing very effectively. And my Windows 7 Laptop does the MS Office and browsing. I still love the Apple Hardware (amazing Battery life and the best of the breed Heat and Sound reductions) but the Software is key. Windows 7 has sealed the deal and now with Office 2010, it is looking better for PC Laptop. But to let you know, Windows 7 is still windows.. It slows down over time and has some of usual Windows Challenges albeit not in the same magnitude as it used to be with previous versions.

 

[roger06]

WishTree:
Hi,

AS few other have mentioned before, if MS Office is a must then it has to be running Windows 7 dedicatedly.

Eh? Office for Mac has been out for ages - in fact Office 2011 Mac is about to be released. I use it and reckon the Mac version is better...

 

[SteveR750]

Any particular recommendations for a PC?

 

[chebby]

SteveR750:Any particular recommendations for a PC?

Order one directly from Dell online (and get 3 or 4 year on-site next day support).

Inspiron 570 from Dell's home range (or customise something from the 'Vostro' range on their 'small and medium business' section.)

 

[SteveR750]

chebby:
SteveR750:Any particular recommendations for a PC?

Order one directly from Dell online (and get 3 or 4 year on-site next day support).

Inspiron 570 from Dell's home range (or customise something from the 'Vostro' range on their 'small and medium business' section.)

I bought a Dell this way some time ago, mainly because the guys in the IT dept. where I work recommended this. I never used the service as the machine never stopped working (ex wife is still using it today with no abnormal problems after 5 years or so), but it is expensive! One thread I was reading referred to Samsung on several occasions, my sons have one each (about £400 fro Argos last Christmas) and they are not overly excited about them.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm using windows 7 on boot camp as we speak and it runs fine. So if you buy a mac you can have the best of both worlds.

The new version of Mac Office 2011 out in 3 weeks is meant work in line with Microsoft office and there are compatibility issues. I use the mac in exchange environment and never have any problems what so ever.

 

[John Duncan]

The current version of Office for Mac doesn't work with VBA, so any macros in spreadsheets etc sent to you by colleagues won't work. Bizarrely, NeoOffice (a port of Open Offiec to Mac) *does* have VBA support, which is why I use it...

 

[Anonymous]

SteveR750 - Your friends / family are pro photographers, what Mac software do they use ?