What about the walls?

[Twiiit]

Hello!

Long story short.

If someone have some pointers please tell me, my setup is driving me crazy.

Allright first I lived in an appartment with concrete walls and one opening with no door between the tv and the left speaker. the sound was perfect. Clean and tight.

Then we moved to a house that we was renting. One brick wall behind the sofa. Rest was drywall i beleve with two openings with no doors, one on the right Wall and one on the left one. Sound was superb.

Now we decided to buy a farm with an old house there we live. I belived the house is from 1900 century and ist drywall all over. Anyway my speakers dont work here. The sound is completly off. I have tryed everything. Them are standing in the corners with the tv in the middle.
I have tryed to play around with diffrent angles, diffrent distance between wall and speaker. Toe in. I've even tried to putting them in the corners behind the sofa. tried behind the tv, no success at all, no sweetspot.

Ill been listening to a special kind of sequens in a song in all three plases there I have been living. And in this house its like i have put on phase the the bas, lika a subwoofer you can phase 180 degrees.

If the sequens is say 10 seconds. I use to have the first 5 seconds with really good bas. and now i feel the first 5 seconds in the furniture but i dont hear the bas as I used to.

My system is two Klipsch rp8000F, Tellurium q ultra blue II cables, a Bluesound node N130 as the streamer and a Sansui AU-X701 as amp.

Ill send some drawings so you can see, Those are on my new livingroom. (second drawing, ill tried this if the door openings was the problem, then i could move the tv and sofa, but no success)

I forget the measurements on the room yesterday when i was drawing this. i can provide this later.

Is there anything i can do? reinforce the walls? doubble drywall? MDF?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Roog]

I’m afraid it’s much more likely to be the room dimensions that is causing your issue than the construction.

Your room does look quite square which will reinforce the resonant frequency set by the room dimensions.

My suggestion would be to try room EQ wizard (REW,) you can connect a microphone to your PC, load up the free to use software and it will give you a good understanding of what is happening in your room. You can even use the room simulator, no mic required and it will give you an indication of what is going on and you can change your layout in the sim to see what effect it has at your listening position. In my case I was surprised at how sensitive my bass peak was to my listening position and yet how little effect the position (given the limitations of my room) of my speakers made in solving the peak.

I found it very helpful in understanding my room. The solution for me was to apply targeted Parametric EQ

 

[Fandango Andy]

Firstly sit back and get used to it. All rooms sound different. How much of the problem is the room sounds poor, and how much is it just different to what you are used to?

View 1 looks like the best option in theory.
Try pulling the speakers further from the wall. Depending on what the speakers are they are going to be at their best somewhere from 10 to 36 inches from the wall. Then have a play with your toe in.

Given from what you have said, it sounds like you have a lot of harder surfaces. You probably need to soften your room up. This could be rugs, carpets, and soft furnishings. It could however be actual room treatments.

 

[Twiiit]

I’m afraid it’s much more likely to be the room dimensions that is causing your issue than the construction.

Your room does look quite square which will reinforce the resonant frequency set by the room dimensions.

My suggestion would be to try room EQ wizard (REW,) you can connect a microphone to your PC, load up the free to use software and it will give you a good understanding of what is happening in your room. You can even use the room simulator, no mic required and it will give you an indication of what is going on and you can change your layout in the sim to see what effect it has at your listening position. In my case I was surprised at how sensitive my bass peak was to my listening position and yet how little effect the position (given the limitations of my room) of my speakers made in solving the peak.

I found it very helpful in understanding my room. The solution for me was to apply targeted Parametric EQ

Thank you for your response!

Bluesound node N130 is suppose to get room calibartion this summer. Do you think this will solve my problem? I can wait for this update if you think it will work for me. The mic for my bluesound will cost about $59 and Dirac software about $159 with limit frequency range (20Hz-500Hz) and $249 with full range (20Hz-20kHz).
Worth the money?

Advantages of buing Dirac to my bluesound is that it will do a correction of the EQ in my Bluesound. Right now i dont have an EQ option in the app.. Do you think i can use the mic to my bluesound is good enough for REW?

I dont have a suitable mic for this kind of measurement, but I can buy one! any one you would recommend?

Thank you again for your respons ant tips.

 

[Stuart83]

Maybe it's your distances.

I've been absent awhile from the site due to illness and also jumping down the vast rabbit hole of trying to correct a room that's way to small for the speakers I use.

I've always preferred floor standers for two main reasons.

One as people know I only do music on the exciting side of the dial.
Two I've only ever found floor standers offer such volumes comfortably (whilst retaining quality)
It's just a personal preference and not to provoke a debate 😊

Sure I've djayed yrs both for fun and for a part time so have the super loud makies etc but it's just not a hifi sound to me, anyway I digress but I have what are nearly 4ft floor standers in a comparable tiny room that just happens to be my main listening room (a main bedroom I've taken hostage really 😆)
The hifi that took ages to find through the regular process of demos and in-between systems etc particularly the Fayne speakers that would regularly cause me to feel genuine frisson is now totally overpowering the room.

The main problem is the distance from the speakers being so close and the listening position being as best as makes no difference to my head resting against the rear wall.

The dimensions of the room are odd along with it having alcoves adding editional booming which was immediately solved with sliding wardrobe doors on runners, but still my stubbornness to not part with the large speakers I love means the obvious fix of swapping to bookshelf speakers is out of the question.

It's never gone well in the past despite some of the best speakers I've heard being large bookshelf speakers.

Not me 😆 I decided to throw room treatments at the entire room after Dirac and the knowing how to use it failed.
I'm not a fan of room correction software bandaids and messing around with phasing but as mentioned by another poster rew is a good way of identifying the problem.

I found wall treatments not soundproofing which are often mistaken for the same thing was the only fix.
The vibrations bouncing off the walls where causing an almost flat overloaded sound devoid of the texture I so much love.
Kind of like a loud pa speaker ear shatteringly loud yet sterile.

The bass was different although very much there yet it sounded almost thin where it was needed and window flexing where it wasn't.

Some others have found some speakers have the illusion of lackluster bass when too close other than the obvious.

Can someone please explain why 'the bass' sounds better further away

I'm not stupid, many may argue that statement but I've got letters behind my name should I choose to use them (I think and they don't all end in T?) I'm a member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers don't ya know.....which means I can go and sit in the library at Birdcage Walk should I take t...

www.basschat.co.uk

If you've been through the obvious positional swaps and are not wanting to swap to more suited kit then it leaves acoustic room treatments as your only viable venture.

Obviously do the head slap check of making sure your speakers aren't out of phase.
It's easy done either the wires muddled up at the amp or speakers or indeed anything else.

I kept costs down by doing it myself but it's well within the capabilities of a diyer.

Most people never think of factoring in room treatments with their hifi budget neither did I but that all changes when you get a acoustically bad one.

It cost me about the same as my system deck record player and brought the dramatic and instant improvement only a swap in speakers would bring at a higher cost.

I see it as future proofing the room for any other HI-FI'S that come without having to compromise for suitability.

 

[Twiiit]

Firstly sit back and get used to it. All rooms sound different. How much of the problem is the room sounds poor, and how much is it just different to what you are used to?

View 1 looks like the best option in theory.
Try pulling the speakers further from the wall. Depending on what the speakers are they are going to be at their best somewhere from 10 to 36 inches from the wall. Then have a play with your toe in.

Given from what you have said, it sounds like you have a lot of harder surfaces. You probably need to soften your room up. This could be rugs, carpets, and soft furnishings. It could however be actual room treatments.

Thank you for your response!

Allright so i should try to place them side by side in front of my tv?

My plan was to buy sound absorbents and place them in the room, but now when I experiences that i dont have the bas iam use to have maby i should reconsider? I dont see how they will give me a better sweetspot?

I guess it was just luck the first times i placed my speakers in the other rooms. I dont know anything about acustics or anything, thank you for telling me!

 

[Stuart83]

Thank you for your response!

Bluesound node N130 is suppose to get room calibartion this summer. Do you think this will solve my problem? I can wait for this update if you think it will work for me. The mic for my bluesound will cost about $59 and Dirac software about $159 with limit frequency range (20Hz-500Hz) and $249 with full range (20Hz-20kHz).
Worth the money?

Advantages of buing Dirac to my bluesound is that it will do a correction of the EQ in my Bluesound. Right now i dont have an EQ option in the app.. Do you think i can use the mic to my bluesound is good enough for REW?

I dont have a suitable mic for this kind of measurement, but I can buy one! any one you would recommend?

Thank you again for your respons ant tips.

Thank you for your response!

Bluesound node N130 is suppose to get room calibartion this summer. Do you think this will solve my problem? I can wait for this update if you think it will work for me. The mic for my bluesound will cost about $59 and Dirac software about $159 with limit frequency range (20Hz-500Hz) and $249 with full range (20Hz-20kHz).
Worth the money?

Advantages of buing Dirac to my bluesound is that it will do a correction of the EQ in my Bluesound. Right now i dont have an EQ option in the app.. Do you think i can use the mic to my bluesound is good enough for REW?

I dont have a suitable mic for this kind of measurement, but I can buy one! any one you would recommend?

Thank you again for your respons ant tips.

Any UMIK
You can usually find them second have on ebay

 

[Twiiit]

Maybe it's your distances.

I've been absent awhile from the site due to illness and also jumping down the vast rabbit hole of trying to correct a room that's way to small for the speakers I use.

I've always preferred floor standers for two main reasons.

One as people know I only do music on the exciting side of the dial.
Two I've only ever found floor standers offer such volumes comfortably (whilst retaining quality)
It's just a personal preference and not to provoke a debate 😊

Sure I've djayed yrs both for fun and for a part time so have the super loud makies etc but it's just not a hifi sound to me, anyway I digress but I have what are nearly 4ft floor standers in a comparable tiny room that just happens to be my main listening room (a main bedroom I've taken hostage really 😆)
The hifi that took ages to find through the regular process of demos and in-between systems etc particularly the Fayne speakers that would regularly cause me to feel genuine frisson is now totally overpowering the room.

The main problem is the distance from the speakers being so close and the listening position being as best as makes no difference to my head resting against the rear wall.

The dimensions of the room are odd along with it having alcoves adding editional booming which was immediately solved with sliding wardrobe doors on runners, but still my stubbornness to not part with the large speakers I love means the obvious fix of swapping to bookshelf speakers is out of the question.

It's never gone well in the past despite some of the best speakers I've heard being large bookshelf speakers.

Not me 😆 I decided to throw room treatments at the entire room after Dirac and the knowing how to use it failed.
I'm not a fan of room correction software bandaids and messing around with phasing but as mentioned by another poster rew is a good way of identifying the problem.

I found wall treatments not soundproofing which are often mistaken for the same thing was the only fix.
The vibrations bouncing off the walls where causing an almost flat overloaded sound devoid of the texture I so much love.
Kind of like a loud pa speaker ear shatteringly loud yet sterile.

The bass was different although very much there yet it sounded almost thin where it was needed and window flexing where it wasn't.

Some others have found some speakers have the illusion of lackluster bass when too close other than the obvious.

Can someone please explain why 'the bass' sounds better further away

I'm not stupid, many may argue that statement but I've got letters behind my name should I choose to use them (I think and they don't all end in T?) I'm a member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers don't ya know.....which means I can go and sit in the library at Birdcage Walk should I take t...

www.basschat.co.uk

If you've been through the obvious positional swaps and are not wanting to swap to more suited kit then it leaves acoustic room treatments as your only viable venture.

Obviously do the head slap check of making sure your speakers aren't out of phase.
It's easy done either the wires muddled up at the amp or speakers or indeed anything else.

I kept costs down by doing it myself but it's well within the capabilities of a diyer.

Most people never think of factoring in room treatments with their hifi budget neither did I but that all changes when you get a acoustically bad one.

It cost me about the same as my system deck record player and brought the dramatic and instant improvement only a swap in speakers would bring at a higher cost.

I see it as future proofing the room for any other HI-FI'S that come without having to compromise for suitability.

Thank you for responding!

That about the wall treatment you spok of? i shoud read this more carfully and write a better response, im was just curious about the wall treatment!

 

[Roog]

Thank you for your response!

Bluesound node N130 is suppose to get room calibartion this summer. Do you think this will solve my problem? I can wait for this update if you think it will work for me. The mic for my bluesound will cost about $59 and Dirac software about $159 with limit frequency range (20Hz-500Hz) and $249 with full range (20Hz-20kHz).
Worth the money?

Advantages of buing Dirac to my bluesound is that it will do a correction of the EQ in my Bluesound. Right now i dont have an EQ option in the app.. Do you think i can use the mic to my bluesound is good enough for REW?

I dont have a suitable mic for this kind of measurement, but I can buy one! any one you would recommend?

Thank you again for your respons ant tips.

I have yet to see how bluesound will implement Dirac so it is hard to say, but from what i have seen of it it should be helpful at dealing with the main issues.

I gave up on room treatment because of the expense and the impact it would have on my living space. To implement room treatment you still need to do the analysis .

I use a reasonably competent UMIK 1 microphone with my laptop running REW a solution recommended to me by our professional acoustics team. They have an uncluttered view on HiFi enthusiasts who will change everything except sort out the big issue, the room acoustics.

My logic is, figure out what the problem is, using a tool like REW, then decide how you want to treat it. There are people who don't like DSP solutions like Dirac and there are people like me that don't have any other practical choice.

 

[Twiiit]

I have yet to see how bluesound will implement Dirac so it is hard to say, but from what i have seen of it it should be helpful at dealing with the main issues.

I gave up on room treatment because of the expense and the impact it would have on my living space. To implement room treatment you still need to do the analysis .

I use a reasonably competent UMIK 1 microphone with my laptop running REW a solution recommended to me by our professional acoustics team. They have an uncluttered view on HiFi enthusiasts who will change everything except sort out the big issue, the room acoustics.

My logic is, figure out what the problem is, using a tool like REW, then decide how you want to treat it. There are people who don't like DSP solutions like Dirac and there are people like me that don't have any other practical choice.

Yes blusound and dirac.. I guess im forced to use dirac in my bluesound? i saw some youtube videos and its lika a button in the bluesound app who says "dirac live", and I dont think we can manipulate the EQ in bluesound and use/put in the adjustments i get from REW. im i wrong?

As you suggested erlier that i should download REW and do some room simulations before i get a mic, well i did and i have tried to move my speakers to a better location but im verry new to this software and it sounded a bit diffrent. i tried to move my speakers so i can hear 40-60Hz but no success, i think its becaus its two doorholes allmost behind the bas reflex port. I have to learn the software and maybe i can implement doors and windows.

 

[abacus]

Re-reading the post (Assuming the speakers are not connected out of phase) I don't think its room reflections that are causing the problem, I think it is the opposite, in that the room is too dead (Acting more like an anechoic chamber effect) and it needs more in it to reflect some of the sound to make it livelier.
Try adding some hard surfaces (Mirrors etc.) and removing any rugs or heavy curtains etc. to see if this reduces your problem.

Bill

 

[Twiiit]

Hello Bill!

The room is clean from curtains and stuff. The only thing in this room is the sofa. But that was exactly my thought aswell! It seems like the bas from 40-60Hz is gone.

Thats why i would like to reinforce the walls with double drywall or mdf then drywall. Make the surface harder.