I want to connect my Ipod to my hifi without using a wireless set-up requiring an 'always on' PC. I also want to bypass the Ipod's onboard DAC and play it through my external DAC. I have identifed 2 suitable products, the Wadia 170i and the Onkyo NDS1. I have been able to read quite a bit about the Wadia but I haven't seen any reviews of the Onkyo. does anyone have any experience of the NDS1? or perhaps have seen any reviews? I should point out that it is quite a bit cheaper than the Wadia. Also does anyone know of any other suitable products on the market that I should be considering?
Wadia 170i vs Onkyo NDS1
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Messiah
Well-known member
A review of the Onkyo is in the latest issue of WHF. 5 Star product.
But reading the review I would expect the Wadia to be the better product - as you would expect given the price.
(Personally I will probably get the Onkyo dock soon and will be able to report more once I have one)
But reading the review I would expect the Wadia to be the better product - as you would expect given the price.
(Personally I will probably get the Onkyo dock soon and will be able to report more once I have one)
Hi chaps,
To be honest, the Onkyo offers a performance that's broadly comparable to the Wadia (remember, that Wadia's been out a long while now) for £200 less. If it was me, I'd take the Onkyo, buy a very decent optical cable, and spend the change on CDs for ripping into Lossless!
To be honest, the Onkyo offers a performance that's broadly comparable to the Wadia (remember, that Wadia's been out a long while now) for £200 less. If it was me, I'd take the Onkyo, buy a very decent optical cable, and spend the change on CDs for ripping into Lossless!
Messiah
Well-known member
Try and hear them both and make your own mind up. Because if you did'nt like the Wadia it would be a very costly mistake. Also if all your music on your ipod is encoded at a low bit rate it will sound pritty rubbish on both of them bear that in mind if you have 10+GB's as you will have to re encode them all in losless.
idc
Well-known member
Can anyone confirm, does the Onkyo bypass the ipods DAC? I cannot find any specification to confirm that it does. I also see it does not have phono outputs whereas the Wadia does.
Messiah
Well-known member
idc
Well-known member
matengawhat
Well-known member
if you can wait a few days will add my opinion - already have the wadia and going to order one of these tomorrow for my bedroom system - will be going through the dac in mt solo movie
can't decide on colour - my ipods silver but the solo if an off black and have thought about swapping for a unity as don't really utilse the home cinema function except for odd dvd but have a ps3 in there which is again black!!!
can't decide on colour - my ipods silver but the solo if an off black and have thought about swapping for a unity as don't really utilse the home cinema function except for odd dvd but have a ps3 in there which is again black!!!
I would be interested in opinions between these two docks as i am keen to get one of these myself and run through a Dacmagic.
Mainly i will be streaming music wifi for Radio Paradise and Spotify.
Just wondering if the Wadia is worth the extra cash.
Mainly i will be streaming music wifi for Radio Paradise and Spotify.
Just wondering if the Wadia is worth the extra cash.
matengawhat
Well-known member
Can anyone help me with a technical query?
In order for the Onkyo to work with a DAC, does the DAC have to be able to convert the audio format on the Ipod (eg Mp3) itself, or does the Ipod decompress the file and stream as PCM.
I say this because i have no idea whether my DAC (an MF X-DAC V3) can read MP3 or AAC
In order for the Onkyo to work with a DAC, does the DAC have to be able to convert the audio format on the Ipod (eg Mp3) itself, or does the Ipod decompress the file and stream as PCM.
I say this because i have no idea whether my DAC (an MF X-DAC V3) can read MP3 or AAC
idc
Well-known member
Your MF DAC can read any type of music file as it is actually reading the digital signal from your source, not the file type.
The Onkyo is taking a digital signal from the music files in the ipod's hard drive in the same way a DAC takes a digital signal off a PC and the hard drive where the music file is stored.
The Onkyo is taking a digital signal from the music files in the ipod's hard drive in the same way a DAC takes a digital signal off a PC and the hard drive where the music file is stored.
I see (I think), so the digital signal output from the coax or optical output is the same irrespective of source file type.
Is this the same in HDMI? I understand that there is a distinction between outputting PCM and bitstreaming TruHD (or DSD for that matter) which suggests to me that there must be a a need to decode a "file type" (strictly a stream type I suppose) downstream.
Is this the same in HDMI? I understand that there is a distinction between outputting PCM and bitstreaming TruHD (or DSD for that matter) which suggests to me that there must be a a need to decode a "file type" (strictly a stream type I suppose) downstream.
matengawhat
Well-known member
matengawhat:my dealer hasn't got the Onkyo in yet - should be this week
just had a call to say mine is on its way - will be with me on monday!!!
just had a call to say mine is on its way - will be with me on monday!!!
idc
Well-known member
Adamdea:
I see (I think), so the digital signal output from the coax or optical output is the same irrespective of source file type.
Coax, optical or USB the digital signal is the same and it does not matter what file type is being sent.
Adamdea:
Is this the same in HDMI? I understand that there is a distinction between outputting PCM and bitstreaming TruHD (or DSD for that matter) which suggests to me that there must be a a need to decode a "file type" (strictly a stream type I suppose) downstream.
I don't know much about HDMI, but if two products have HDMI sockets then they can send a signal to each other. If one product then needs a specific code I see what you are getting at. But with DACs and music files there is no such issue.
If you tried to send a DAC that is part of hifi setup a file that is say a music video, then I would assume it would still play the audio part. I say that because if I watch Youtube on my laptop I get the audio to my headphones via my DAC.
I see (I think), so the digital signal output from the coax or optical output is the same irrespective of source file type.
Coax, optical or USB the digital signal is the same and it does not matter what file type is being sent.
Adamdea:
Is this the same in HDMI? I understand that there is a distinction between outputting PCM and bitstreaming TruHD (or DSD for that matter) which suggests to me that there must be a a need to decode a "file type" (strictly a stream type I suppose) downstream.
I don't know much about HDMI, but if two products have HDMI sockets then they can send a signal to each other. If one product then needs a specific code I see what you are getting at. But with DACs and music files there is no such issue.
If you tried to send a DAC that is part of hifi setup a file that is say a music video, then I would assume it would still play the audio part. I say that because if I watch Youtube on my laptop I get the audio to my headphones via my DAC.
matengawhat
Well-known member
wadia / onkyo comparison
ok here goes - the onkyo looks pretty smart in silver and blends well with my silver ipod. Was a little bigger than thought was going to be and could do with some weight adding to it, weight to me means quality and this feels a little flimsy - the connections on the back feel solid and includes digital, optical, composite and usb connection - the onkyo comes with remote (although doesn't seem to skip up albums even though there is a button - my ipod needs updating so this could be corrected), mains leads, usb cable, optical cable and the yellow one for conneting to av amp ect No ipod inserts come with the onkyo so you will need to dig your old one out. The dock has a sliding tray to pull over the ipod connector to prevent dust
the usb connector is a nice touch and a button on top swaps between the two - it says you can synch ipod whilst in the dock although not tried yet but def a worthy adition also imagine you can plays tracks straight from computer using this but again not tried
ipod connects very quickly and is ready instantly - well now the important bit sound - there are no analogue outs so needs connecting to a dac using either optical or digital - i used digital as my dac has no optical in. It sounds far better as expected than any other dock that uses the internal ipod dac. The sounds is pretty tight and detailed and has weight and punch whilst reamining open no problems with the sound stage, personally think internal ipod dacs sound flat. Using my cdp player as a transport through same dac still edges it but not by much its very close. All in all a great product for the money and a steal at £150.
The wadia in comparison is also light, perfectly square and twice as thick - the wadia is rough to touch not smooth like the onkyo but probably beats it for style but personal choice. The connections on the wadia feel cheap to me and never liked the mains connector. The wadia came with digital cable, remote and mains lead. The remote is very cheap even though the one with the onkyo isn't much better but is better. From memory i think the wadia came with ipod inserts.
The wadia has both optical, digital and analogue outs - its has an internal dac but no computer connectivity, i have never tried the internal dac so can't comment. It also lacks any light to say whether its working or not. The sound between these two is even closer but going to hold judgement and will update this shortly as trying to get an identical digital cable as to me there seemed to be a difference in volume between the two which i wouldn't expect going through the same dac and the wadia seemed to sound a little more exciting but could be the cable/difference in volume as the only spare cable i had was a standard interconnect - if i can't get matching set with try the freebie out of the wadia box as seemed decent cable to be fair - not easy for me to swap the two over due to cabinet watch this space as need to do some more experimenting and have an in depth listening session.
Although to be honest at this moment in time i think the onkyo could be the better option at half the price and with the added computer connectivity is the one i would probably go for - would be keen to hear what hifi thoughts on the comparison.
please ask me if you have any direct questions and will try to answer
ok here goes - the onkyo looks pretty smart in silver and blends well with my silver ipod. Was a little bigger than thought was going to be and could do with some weight adding to it, weight to me means quality and this feels a little flimsy - the connections on the back feel solid and includes digital, optical, composite and usb connection - the onkyo comes with remote (although doesn't seem to skip up albums even though there is a button - my ipod needs updating so this could be corrected), mains leads, usb cable, optical cable and the yellow one for conneting to av amp ect No ipod inserts come with the onkyo so you will need to dig your old one out. The dock has a sliding tray to pull over the ipod connector to prevent dust
the usb connector is a nice touch and a button on top swaps between the two - it says you can synch ipod whilst in the dock although not tried yet but def a worthy adition also imagine you can plays tracks straight from computer using this but again not tried
ipod connects very quickly and is ready instantly - well now the important bit sound - there are no analogue outs so needs connecting to a dac using either optical or digital - i used digital as my dac has no optical in. It sounds far better as expected than any other dock that uses the internal ipod dac. The sounds is pretty tight and detailed and has weight and punch whilst reamining open no problems with the sound stage, personally think internal ipod dacs sound flat. Using my cdp player as a transport through same dac still edges it but not by much its very close. All in all a great product for the money and a steal at £150.
The wadia in comparison is also light, perfectly square and twice as thick - the wadia is rough to touch not smooth like the onkyo but probably beats it for style but personal choice. The connections on the wadia feel cheap to me and never liked the mains connector. The wadia came with digital cable, remote and mains lead. The remote is very cheap even though the one with the onkyo isn't much better but is better. From memory i think the wadia came with ipod inserts.
The wadia has both optical, digital and analogue outs - its has an internal dac but no computer connectivity, i have never tried the internal dac so can't comment. It also lacks any light to say whether its working or not. The sound between these two is even closer but going to hold judgement and will update this shortly as trying to get an identical digital cable as to me there seemed to be a difference in volume between the two which i wouldn't expect going through the same dac and the wadia seemed to sound a little more exciting but could be the cable/difference in volume as the only spare cable i had was a standard interconnect - if i can't get matching set with try the freebie out of the wadia box as seemed decent cable to be fair - not easy for me to swap the two over due to cabinet watch this space as need to do some more experimenting and have an in depth listening session.
Although to be honest at this moment in time i think the onkyo could be the better option at half the price and with the added computer connectivity is the one i would probably go for - would be keen to hear what hifi thoughts on the comparison.
please ask me if you have any direct questions and will try to answer
idc
Well-known member
Great review and I am waiting patiently (not) for more on the sound! Could I get the Onkyo and a type a to type b USB cable and connect it to my USB DACs? Have you got the GQ-24 cable for a further comparison?
My thinking is that at the moment I use my GQ-24 to connect ipod to the phonos on my amp. But with the Onkyo I could connect ipod to amp(DAC) via USB.
My thinking is that at the moment I use my GQ-24 to connect ipod to the phonos on my amp. But with the Onkyo I could connect ipod to amp(DAC) via USB.
i bought my wadia from america works a charm check this link http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=6509 they have it at $379 us its more about your dac and having a reliable coax cable they give you a reasonable one with the 170i anyway
Hi Chaps,
I was happy to read this and find the award winning onkyo ipod dock. I really enjoy carrying my music around digitally, have a large usb pen drive in my car, but have been awaiting a good solution for my living room. I'll probably go with an AV reciever, as I'd want cinema and music in one, though I'll tend to an amp that is more musical. I was at first thinking of the Pioneer VSX-919 (within my budget) because it has supposedly nice ipod intigration, but in the end I do not like the idea of having the TV on, and the cable connects via the front.
So, I started reading up on docking stations, and have finally found a dock which outputs digital into the av reciever.
Thus the av reciever that I'll probably get is the denon 1610 or the 1910. Any comments? I'll be starting off having the system in stereo 2.0 then maybe expanding to 5.1. The speakers I'm looking into are the diamonds 9.1 or 2 or the 10, maybe even floor stading ones. Just a question of listening to them. These speakers look nice (girlfriend) and also have rave reviews, and are not so pricey.
K out
I was happy to read this and find the award winning onkyo ipod dock. I really enjoy carrying my music around digitally, have a large usb pen drive in my car, but have been awaiting a good solution for my living room. I'll probably go with an AV reciever, as I'd want cinema and music in one, though I'll tend to an amp that is more musical. I was at first thinking of the Pioneer VSX-919 (within my budget) because it has supposedly nice ipod intigration, but in the end I do not like the idea of having the TV on, and the cable connects via the front.
So, I started reading up on docking stations, and have finally found a dock which outputs digital into the av reciever.
Thus the av reciever that I'll probably get is the denon 1610 or the 1910. Any comments? I'll be starting off having the system in stereo 2.0 then maybe expanding to 5.1. The speakers I'm looking into are the diamonds 9.1 or 2 or the 10, maybe even floor stading ones. Just a question of listening to them. These speakers look nice (girlfriend) and also have rave reviews, and are not so pricey.
K out
I can clearly see your train of thought, but thankfully bitstreaming is specific to HDMI with respect to iPod audio. Coaxial and Optical only output PCM from an iPod source. They can output a bitstreamed DTS or AC3 but that's only relevant to Home Cinema. Cheers.
I liked the info posted on the Onkyo NDS1. Whats really captured my mind is the recent WHFN Linn article saying music from a hard drive is far superior to that from a CD player and the WHFN raving reviews about the Mission CD6 player and its new servo drive mechanism. Clearly musical quality of CD players are heavily limited by their optical drive systems and this is not my view but Linn's and Mission's.
I can't aford either companies products much as I would like to be able to but I do have an iPod and I do have a slightly aging Dacmagic. So if I record my music in WAV (not compressed) and connected my iPod and Dacmagic via the NDS1, I suspect I might be able to achieve a musical quality far in excess of any current £500 CD player for the little money Onkyo is asking for. Has anyone given this try or have any further comments?
I can't aford either companies products much as I would like to be able to but I do have an iPod and I do have a slightly aging Dacmagic. So if I record my music in WAV (not compressed) and connected my iPod and Dacmagic via the NDS1, I suspect I might be able to achieve a musical quality far in excess of any current £500 CD player for the little money Onkyo is asking for. Has anyone given this try or have any further comments?
idc
Well-known member
Hi oldntired. The impression from similar threads where the source is a PC instead of the ipod is that a £200 DAC can compete with a CDP up to £1000. But that is a generalisation. Furthermore, using the Onkyo and Wadia are still rare. From reviews, it would appear you have a very good chance of excellent sound. I hope you go for it and post back your impressions.
Thank you for the feedback idc. I hadn't used my PC as a source as it doesn't have a separate digital output (integrated sound board?) but a suitable sound card might be the quick and cheap way way to test the theory as post Christmas the Onkyo won't slip into the budget just yet!
matengawhat
Well-known member
if its any help in my opinin the difference between the two having had them both for sometime now is maginal - if you want to use a computer go for the onkyo but the wadia just edges it for sound - the wadia has a built in dac to offer analogue out if needed (sorry that's wrong its just a pass through oops) although never tried it as feed mine directly into the mf dac
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