I have some fairly vintage Hi-Fi and keep wondering whether the time has come to upgrade to something that will (hopefully) sound even better. The trouble is that my current setup sounds good to me and I worry that new gear may not actually be a significant improvement. Unfortunately I've never had chance to listen to any hi-fi other than my own so I really have no idea what might be possible in terms of improved sound. My current setup is a Technics SL-PG400A CD player (approx 1990), a Pioneer SA-508 amplifier (1980) and Celestion Ditton 15XR speakers (1980). I also have a Rega Planar 2 turntable. I've spent a fair bit on new cables, stands etc to provide the best possible conditions for my elderly equipment and all the gear has been regularly used and well cared for. Does anyone have any thoughts on all this? If I do go for new gear I'm currently thinking in terms of a Rega Saturn CD player / Rega Elex Mk4 amp or possibly Naim CD5si / Naim Nait 5si amp. I've no idea about speakers at the moment.
Vintage Hi-Fi
- Thread starter Phil C
- Start date
plastic penguin
Well-known member
Welcome Phil.
It's tricky as the usual answer if you like the sound, there's no need to change. I've always said, if it isn't broke don't try and fix it.
I'm a big fan of old Pioneer amps, owned the SA-706 for 17 years until it fell to pieces.
However, amps have advanced in tonal quality & connectivity, especially for digital sources.
Certainly go and listen to a few different components, but ask yourself "can I live with a modern sound?"
I changed my Pioneer for Arcam amp, so that might be a good place to start.
I'd look at Arcam with Dali speakers.
It's tricky as the usual answer if you like the sound, there's no need to change. I've always said, if it isn't broke don't try and fix it.
I'm a big fan of old Pioneer amps, owned the SA-706 for 17 years until it fell to pieces.
However, amps have advanced in tonal quality & connectivity, especially for digital sources.
Certainly go and listen to a few different components, but ask yourself "can I live with a modern sound?"
I changed my Pioneer for Arcam amp, so that might be a good place to start.
I'd look at Arcam with Dali speakers.
Gray
Well-known member
Hello Phil.
State your maximum budget and get ready for people to spend your money for you
My first speakers happened to be Ditton 22, I've been through plenty since, so can't remember their sound as such. But I can say with confidence that new speakers will sound significantly different.
You're likely to get a few quid for the Pioneer amp as enough people are mad for that stuff now.
Main advice is to listen to what's currently available - preferably in your own room if you can.
If the Technics CDP is working well, I'd be tempted to stick with that - if it comes to it, you could put its digital output through an external DAC (either standalone, or built into a new amp) to tune its sound.
Take your time to acclimatise to any new sound you try - as even if it's better, at first it might seem wrong, when compared to what you've become very familiar with.
State your maximum budget and get ready for people to spend your money for you
My first speakers happened to be Ditton 22, I've been through plenty since, so can't remember their sound as such. But I can say with confidence that new speakers will sound significantly different.
You're likely to get a few quid for the Pioneer amp as enough people are mad for that stuff now.
Main advice is to listen to what's currently available - preferably in your own room if you can.
If the Technics CDP is working well, I'd be tempted to stick with that - if it comes to it, you could put its digital output through an external DAC (either standalone, or built into a new amp) to tune its sound.
Take your time to acclimatise to any new sound you try - as even if it's better, at first it might seem wrong, when compared to what you've become very familiar with.
Stuart83
Well-known member
It's all in the demo room.
Can you get to a dealer and demo anything you may be interested in.
It will give you the experience of what newer gear has to offer.
I will say I regularly go from a modern hifi to a vintage second hifi in the living room which is a pioneer a400 and Marantz cd52 mk2 and I still consider it one of the best amps and CD players I've had even in comparison to amps and CDP's I've had, demoed and have got costing much more.
I've only seen connectivity and the way we listen to music change not the sonic quality improve much over quality vintage hifi.
My old mission 763i that belonged to the aforementioned CDP and amp took me ages and a few mistakes to finally improve on only recently.
A clean sweep of budget award winners from 1990-93 come to me and went backwards and replaced my modern equivalent with it until failures and needing to update connectivity prompted me into bettering it with modern equipment.
It cost a lot more to get there especially with the amp and speakers.
I'd certainly not buy deaf though and demo whatever it is that takes your fancy.
nopiano
Well-known member
It’s a bit like comparing a car from twenty or thirty years ago. They both get you from A to B, but they do so in different ways.
Your system probably sounds quite mild and warm by comparison with something much newer, but unsurprisingly many people don’t want to be grabbed by the collar, they’re happy to have the sound wash over them.
Book a demo, take a few LPs or CDs you know and see how a modern setup sounds to you. I’m sure you’ll either be surprised at the detail or find it all ‘too much’ - but we can’t predict that for you. Good luck.
Your system probably sounds quite mild and warm by comparison with something much newer, but unsurprisingly many people don’t want to be grabbed by the collar, they’re happy to have the sound wash over them.
Book a demo, take a few LPs or CDs you know and see how a modern setup sounds to you. I’m sure you’ll either be surprised at the detail or find it all ‘too much’ - but we can’t predict that for you. Good luck.
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Leon74
Well-known member
Of course what nopiano said but I am sure a new amplifier can make a huge difference.
My husband still had an analog Luxman amp from the 70s, but a cheaper (more) digital Sony from the 90's I still had produces a more pleasing sound. And I am sure that since the nineties there have been more updates.
So yes, go out listening to the newer stuff and see if the difference is worth the money for you.
Having said that, I somehow believe often (not always) it's best to match the music and the decade. Of course one (at least most people) cannot have a different HiFi set for each decade, but of course e.g. music recorded in the sixties must sound quite differently on devices from that decade than when it's played with modern devices.
My husband still had an analog Luxman amp from the 70s, but a cheaper (more) digital Sony from the 90's I still had produces a more pleasing sound. And I am sure that since the nineties there have been more updates.
So yes, go out listening to the newer stuff and see if the difference is worth the money for you.
Having said that, I somehow believe often (not always) it's best to match the music and the decade. Of course one (at least most people) cannot have a different HiFi set for each decade, but of course e.g. music recorded in the sixties must sound quite differently on devices from that decade than when it's played with modern devices.
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Leon74
Well-known member
Another thing to consider Phil, and I don't know if this my personal "taste" or others have a similar experience:
If you listen mainly to classical music, getting new devices might not be worth it: My personal experience is that a good amp, even if it is rather old usually gives a very satisfying sound when it comes to classical music.
In my personal opinion, it is the modern pop music that benefits most from moderner devices.
As for buying, like Stuart says, don't buy deaf, but even then: If possible after listening buy online so you can send it back if at home because of different accoustics it sounds quite differently from what you heard in the shop.
Of course if the shop owner would agree (and put it on paper!) for you to return the HiFi if you would be dissatisfied with the sound at home, that would be ok, too.
If you listen mainly to classical music, getting new devices might not be worth it: My personal experience is that a good amp, even if it is rather old usually gives a very satisfying sound when it comes to classical music.
In my personal opinion, it is the modern pop music that benefits most from moderner devices.
As for buying, like Stuart says, don't buy deaf, but even then: If possible after listening buy online so you can send it back if at home because of different accoustics it sounds quite differently from what you heard in the shop.
Of course if the shop owner would agree (and put it on paper!) for you to return the HiFi if you would be dissatisfied with the sound at home, that would be ok, too.
Many thanks to everyone for your comments on this. It's given me a lot of very helpful food for thought. My inclination at the moment is to stick with what I already know and love, especially having just read the thread on members' experiences of demos!
A-Line
Well-known member
I've got a pair of Linn Majik 109's for sale at $900.00 USD, plus shipping and handling, in case you're interested...😁
Amormusic
Well-known member
Whilst I'm unfamiliar with the OPs vintage kit I am going to go against the grain here. I disagree that newer is better. Whilst newer amps have added features such as DACs and Streaming inbuilt - good kit is still good kit, irrespective of its age.
I've heard and owned a lot of amps, including recent and decent ones. However, my rebuilt Leak valve amp from 1961, so now over 60-years old in design, is the amp I've kept and use as my main amp. This can easily hold its own against any modern amp I've heard at sensible money.
OP - if you need additional features, or want a different sound then try some other stuff out. But don't expect huge gains in sound quality if your existing kit is already of a decent quality.
I've heard and owned a lot of amps, including recent and decent ones. However, my rebuilt Leak valve amp from 1961, so now over 60-years old in design, is the amp I've kept and use as my main amp. This can easily hold its own against any modern amp I've heard at sensible money.
OP - if you need additional features, or want a different sound then try some other stuff out. But don't expect huge gains in sound quality if your existing kit is already of a decent quality.
matthewpianist
Well-known member
Ask a dealer to put together some recommendations and demonstrate them to you in your home.
If CD is important to you (as it is to me), invest in a new player you can have confidence in. The Technics will reach a point when it starts skipping and being a pain, and although laser assemblies, loading gear etc. can be replaced it isn't always as simple as it sounds, and CD players have moved on considerably.
Arcam would be a good place to start for amplification, and (as someone has already suggested), Dali makes a great speaker match. Your thoughts about Rega and NAIM are also worth pursuing though you may find the latter to be too different in presentation to what you are accustomed to. Don't disregard Exposure or Hegel - both extremely good.
If CD is important to you (as it is to me), invest in a new player you can have confidence in. The Technics will reach a point when it starts skipping and being a pain, and although laser assemblies, loading gear etc. can be replaced it isn't always as simple as it sounds, and CD players have moved on considerably.
Arcam would be a good place to start for amplification, and (as someone has already suggested), Dali makes a great speaker match. Your thoughts about Rega and NAIM are also worth pursuing though you may find the latter to be too different in presentation to what you are accustomed to. Don't disregard Exposure or Hegel - both extremely good.
speedthing
Well-known member
Have A dig about for an Arcam A32 that Amps well worth a listen and they tend to run nicely with B&W speakers.
Rodolfo
Well-known member
Agree, and I'd argue that much newer equipment is actually inferior. There is unquestionably new technology, and much vintage equipment lacks simple -even dated- conveniences like remote control. Nevertheless, manufacturers are not what they used to be, starting with the personnel, from the engineers/craftsmen, through to the shop and showroom personnel. (Yes, there are rare, even young wizzes still around.) Few independent manufacturers remain, and the compromises made today, especially by the conglomerates, to make margins at all but the highest cost levels are indeed compromising -and hearable, and visible, etc..
I love my 21st-century Rotel A12, with its many connections, wireless features, and especially its elaborate remote control. But, it doesn't sound any better than my still-satisfying, if feature-limited 1985 original Mission Cyrus One. (Ditto for today's Cyrus One.) Rotel has designed/pursued a fairly unique history, compromised on its terms, probably at a significant cost. to protect its integrity and continue to develop its own products.
My Audi allroad turned 20 last year: even Audi doesn't make as good a driving and feeling car at even a higher price. Today's cars have more features, but also more plastics throughout, inferior leather, inferior carpeting, etc..
It's best to hang on to what still works so nicely, unless, until you really need the features and are prepared to compromise.
record_spot
Well-known member
I think when it comes to older gear you have some great options, though the caveat is...it's older gear!
That said, if it's well looked after, then don't be surprised if it's still working fine. I have several older players - Kenwood DP-990SG, Sony CDP-911E, Pioneer 8700 - and they're all terrific, though the Kenwood is the pick of the bunch along with the Sony. The Pioneer is a punchy little thing too, but not quite up there.
You'll now start to find some of the 2000s gear coming up, so don't be too surprised to find Leema, Arcam's FMJ models and the likes of Exposure all available for reasonable money (thinking £300-500) which should get you something that was anywhere from £700-£1300 back in 2007 or so.
I've no real issues in buying older hifi. I tend to seek it out more often than not to be fair especially if we're talking CD players. In general, do all your checks - what's the seller like, any reviews, return policies, etc. I tend to buy off Ebay, I haven't gone with Gumtree at all recently and never off Facebook, though I am in a few audio groups in Scotland - if I do sell there, I'll include a post-it note with date / time, item details, etc., but generally avoid it. Too many chancers and with Ebay you do at least get buyer protection.
If you end up buying new, consider active speakers. There are some terrific options out there now. I went for actives about a decade ago now and wouldn't go back. These days, I'm using a pair of AVI ADM 9 RSS speakers which are around a decade old, though I only bought them about five years or so ago. They've been great and no plans to move them on yet.
That said, if it's well looked after, then don't be surprised if it's still working fine. I have several older players - Kenwood DP-990SG, Sony CDP-911E, Pioneer 8700 - and they're all terrific, though the Kenwood is the pick of the bunch along with the Sony. The Pioneer is a punchy little thing too, but not quite up there.
You'll now start to find some of the 2000s gear coming up, so don't be too surprised to find Leema, Arcam's FMJ models and the likes of Exposure all available for reasonable money (thinking £300-500) which should get you something that was anywhere from £700-£1300 back in 2007 or so.
I've no real issues in buying older hifi. I tend to seek it out more often than not to be fair especially if we're talking CD players. In general, do all your checks - what's the seller like, any reviews, return policies, etc. I tend to buy off Ebay, I haven't gone with Gumtree at all recently and never off Facebook, though I am in a few audio groups in Scotland - if I do sell there, I'll include a post-it note with date / time, item details, etc., but generally avoid it. Too many chancers and with Ebay you do at least get buyer protection.
If you end up buying new, consider active speakers. There are some terrific options out there now. I went for actives about a decade ago now and wouldn't go back. These days, I'm using a pair of AVI ADM 9 RSS speakers which are around a decade old, though I only bought them about five years or so ago. They've been great and no plans to move them on yet.
matthewpianist
Well-known member
Lots of experimenting recently has led me to thinking that, on the whole, older speakers can be nicer sounding. I'm using a pair of JPW Sonata sealed-box standmounts at present, and they gel very well with the Audiolab - better than the modern speakers I've tried. Some of those 80s/90s British speakers are very well made and can sound superb.
GeoffreyW
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
podknocker
Well-known member
So true and still a mystery why. The last time I heard the Mission 751 many years ago, I couldn't leave the shop. I listened for an hour I think. They didn't mind thankfully. The new Mission 750 looks nice, but got a 4 star on WHF last week. I would love to hear them, just to see if that Mission magic is still there, although I doubt it.
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