vat

[Clare Newsome]

Andrew Everard:
matt41:Can you really use a WHF forum to make personal political statements?

It wasn't a political statement: it was an a comment against the current state of politics as a whole, not any particular party.

Don't really think our ultimate boss - Haymarket chairman, Lord Michael Heseltine - has any problem with political statements, either.

(Again, not in a party political sense - he's given his blessing to staff who've got involved in politics across the spectrum).

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Clare Newsome:Andrew Everard:

matt41:Can you really use a WHF forum to make personal political statements?

It wasn't a political statement: it was an a comment against the current state of politics as a whole, not any particular party.

Don't really think our ultimate boss - Haymarket chairman, Lord Michael Heseltine - has any problem with political statements, either.

(Again, not in a party political sense - he's given his blessing to staff who've got involved in politics across the spectrum).

Yer see- Andrew Everard is such a good name for an MP. Teddy Bye time again.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Ravey Gravey Davy:Yer see- Andrew Everard is such a good name for an MP. Teddy Bye time again.

I want some of what he's on...

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Andrew Everard:

Ravey Gravey Davy:Yer see- Andrew Everard is such a good name for an MP. Teddy Bye time again.

I want some of what he's on...

Morrisons own brand Bovril- the sniffer dogs walk straight past it.

 

[the record spot]

There's the very plan Clare - the Spectrum Party!!

Yes, for those of you who are completely disaffected by the current trend in politics, join the Spectrum Party where all views are welcomed! We won't get anything done because we'll be too busy arguing all the time - sign up now if you like a good barney!

 

[the record spot]

Being of a somewhat left leaning political persuasion, I tend to view the present state of the parties with some dismay. Don't get me wrong, I was glad to tsee the tail end of Mrs. T and later the Tories in 1997. I think they made some awful decisions which some communities are still recovering from.

One of the saddest sights I ever saw was driving down to a client site in Clydebank recently and parallel to the former Clyde shipyards - there aren't even ghosts of the great past there. It's gone and replaced by business parks. It seems fitting that the shipyards were the last go from that area; once they got shot of the mines, the steelworks and the other manufacturing in the area, that was the only thing that was left to sell down the river.

Labour had to change, but mostly for the good I think. They introduced changes which have benefitted millions - minimum wage, working time regulations (though we still seem to work more than 48 hours a week and have the longest working hours in Europe somehow; I know I've signed exemption to the regs and plenty of others will have done too), tax credits, and so on.

Where the parties come up short though is they are virtually indistinguishable from each other - the Tories could be Labour and vice versa. That said, look out for Dave Cameron's nose to grow somewhat if they get in next time round - some of the promises have been based on "finger in the air" calculations; no wonder Ken Clarke's back (a good thing IMO)!

 

[Anonymous]

Well thanks everyone who replied to this, boy did I open a can of worms here regarding polictical views, roll on the revolution!!

Back to hi -fi can anyone suggest a good London/Greater London dealer who is unbiased, helpful,good dem rooms, and can demonstrate speakers of the kind spendor, pmc, proac, and when decided will allow a home dem. Thanks.

 

[the record spot]

Certainly with most if not all of those, you could go see the guys at Walrus Audio on, I think, New Quebec Street in Central London. Harrow Audio is also rather good and pretty helpful too. Not sure about home dems, but both shops are well recommended otherwise (personal experience of both).

 

[Alec]

the record spot:Being of a somewhat left leaning political persuasion, I tend to view the present state of the parties with some dismay. Don't get me wrong, I was glad to tsee the tail end of Mrs. T and later the Tories in 1997. I think they made some awful decisions which some communities are still recovering from. One of the saddest sights I ever saw was driving down to a client site in Clydebank recently and parallel to the former Clyde shipyards - there aren't even ghosts of the great past there. It's gone and replaced by business parks. It seems fitting that the shipyards were the last go from that area; once they got shot of the mines, the steelworks and the other manufacturing in the area, that was the only thing that was left to sell down the river. Labour had to change, but mostly for the good I think. They introduced changes which have benefitted millions - minimum wage, working time regulations (though we still seem to work more than 48 hours a week and have the longest working hours in Europe somehow; I know I've signed exemption to the regs and plenty of others will have done too), tax credits, and so on. Where the parties come up short though is they are virtually indistinguishable from each other - the Tories could be Labour and vice versa. That said, look out for Dave Cameron's nose to grow somewhat if they get in next time round - some of the promises have been based on "finger in the air" calculations; no wonder Ken Clarke's back (a good thing IMO)!

Oh good lord!

You're a leftie who trumpets a left governments achievements, then you say you cant see daylight between the two main parties...

The "they're all the same" brigade are not paying attention.

If it werent for Chebby's stats id think we were all doomed...

Sorry, OP.

 

[the record spot]

Thought I'd made it quite clear! Or are you saying there's daylight between the two main parties to the same extent when Thatcher and Foot were at the respective helms?

Sorry, but I pay a lot of attention to current affairs, so you're a tad wide of the mark if you think otherwise. There's a vast amount of similarity between the two main parties now, principally as they've moved more to the centre ground, both having done their best to get rid of the more extreme views in order to gain the popular vote.

And if you think the current administration is a heavily left leaning government....etc.

 

[Alec]

i dont believe i said "heavily left", whatever you intend that to mean. And yes, both parties have made it look as if they have lurched to the centre, to make people forget their less desireable characteristics, and its a great trick which has done a number on many many voters to the point where they have us pretty much where they want us - tho supporters on both sides would have to admit it has its advantages too, i think. Nor did i say that there is such daylight between them as they used to be, but lets remember, that daylight made one part look like a bunch of useless hippies and the other...well...the greedy "im alright jack" so and sos we just had to settle for.

The point is as i said on the previous page - they are essentially - even tho they would like us to think otherwise for some purposes - still the labour party and the conservative party - high tax/high spend Vs low tax/low spend, and all that that involves. Following what i believe to be the logical conclusions of those methodologies is why i vote, and vote the way i do, and live in fear of certain parties reaching their logical conclusions, and that becomes more likely if we jsut think "meh, theyre all the same".

EDIT - "...minimum wage, working time regulations (though we still seem to work more than 48 hours a week and have the longest working hours in Europe somehow; I know I've signed exemption to the regs and plenty of others will have done too), tax credits, and so on."

All this would have happenned under the Tories would it? Thats what i thought was weird. you say this then you say you see no daylight between them.

I think perhaps we may both be guilty of a lack of nuance, to be fair.

EDIT - and here i bow out. Honest.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Please don't let this turn into another thread I have to lock - play nicely, people!

 

[Anonymous]

Hate to troll, but I would like to place a new view on the Thatcher slating as someone who wasn't born whilst she was P.M and so I can provide a different perspective that is a little less biased, perhaps.

One of the things that Maggie did to improve this country, was to get the UK out of the economic hole it was in and "cure the sick man of Europe".
Statistics for proof or otherwise

The UK'S GDP per capita (in US$ at current PPP) was, in 1974, 4259. In 1979 just after Maggie became P.M, it was 6889. Then it rapidly increased to 10,051 in 1984 and to 14,284 in 1989. However, in 1994 when John Major was P.M it was 17,063 which is a much smaller increase considering the vast time same time period. The economic depression which occured after Maggie was PM also reflects this.

(Statistics thanks to House of Commons' Library)

Then again, what she did with the public sector and education is a bit more challenging to argue for...

 

[Anonymous]

the record spot:

And if you think the current administration is a heavily left leaning government....etc.

Just shy of the "middle-ground" currently, leaning to the left.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Hughes123:
Hate to troll, but I would like to place a new view on the Thatcher slating as someone who wasn't born whilst she was P.M and so I can provide a different perspective that is a little less biased, perhaps.

One of the things that Maggie did to improve this country, was to get the UK out of the economic hole it was in and "cure the sick man of Europe".
Statistics for proof or otherwise

The UK'S GDP per capita (in US$ at current PPP) was, in 1974, 4259. In 1979 just after Maggie became P.M, it was 6889. Then it rapidly increased to 10,051 in 1984 and to 14,284 in 1989. However, in 1994 when John Major was P.M it was 17,063 which is a much smaller increase considering the vast time same time period. The economic depression which occured after Maggie was PM also reflects this.

(Statistics thanks to House of Commons' Library)

Then again, what she did with the public sector and education is a bit more challenging to argue for...

Hughes123 - you know I mentioned recently that you might be a little too ready to give people a stick to beat you with?.....

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:Hughes123:
Hate to troll, but I would like to place a new view on the Thatcher slating as someone who wasn't born whilst she was P.M and so I can provide a different perspective that is a little less biased, perhaps.

One of the things that Maggie did to improve this country, was to get the UK out of the economic hole it was in and "cure the sick man of Europe".
Statistics for proof or otherwise

The UK'S GDP per capita (in US$ at current PPP) was, in 1974, 4259. In 1979 just after Maggie became P.M, it was 6889. Then it rapidly increased to 10,051 in 1984 and to 14,284 in 1989. However, in 1994 when John Major was P.M it was 17,063 which is a much smaller increase considering the vast time same time period. The economic depression which occured after Maggie was PM also reflects this.

(Statistics thanks to House of Commons' Library)

Then again, what she did with the public sector and education is a bit more challenging to argue for...

Hughes123 - you know I mentioned recently that you might be a little too ready to give people a stick to beat you with?.....

Maybe...

"Defeat? I do not recognise the meaning of the word."

 

[the record spot]

al7478:

EDIT - "...minimum wage, working time regulations (though we still seem to work more than 48 hours a week and have the longest working hours in Europe somehow; I know I've signed exemption to the regs and plenty of others will have done too), tax credits, and so on."

Perhaps I didn't make it clear - and there is an error in my post in any case as the WTR are a European Union regulation, not one from Westminster. Minimum wage and tax credits are pure Labour, and no the Tories wouldn't have gone for it, but even with that there is a remarkable likeness in both parties presentation this past few years. The underlying ideologies may be quite different in their roots, but I'm hardly the first to have suggested this similarity; the difficulty in getting the perspective is what then?

al7478:

All this would have happenned under the Tories would it? Thats what i thought was weird. you say this then you say you see no daylight between them.

In turn, did I say it would?

al7478:

I think perhaps we may both be guilty of a lack of nuance, to be fair.

We can agree to differ amicably on this point I am sure...

al7478:

EDIT - and here i bow out. Honest.

Me too, well, all bar one more little post...

 

[the record spot]

Hughes123:
the record spot:

And if you think the current administration is a heavily left leaning government....etc.

Just shy of the "middle-ground" currently, leaning to the left.

Sorry, am I being lectured on the current political and ideological leaning of the Labour party?

What Clare said; this and your other post. They're wise words...

 

[Andrew Everard]

Hughes123:Hate to troll, but I would like to place a new view on the Thatcher slating as someone who wasn't born whilst she was P.M and so I can provide a different perspective that is a little less biased, perhaps.

Told you he was Toryboy...

 

[the record spot]

...chuckle!

I liked the "little less biased" bit too.

I mean, obviously, you would be if you hadn't been one of the many whose industry or community was waved down the river with precious little backup once the factory/mine/steelyard/shipyard doors closed...still, back to the hifi eh?!

 

[Anonymous]

the record spot:...chuckle!

I liked the "little less biased" bit too.

I mean, obviously, you would be if you hadn't been one of the many whose industry or community was waved down the river with precious little backup once the factory/mine/steelyard/shipyard doors closed...still, back to the hifi eh?!

Ah yes, who was the former of Maggie? Oh, Callaghan...yeh, he was certainly a people's PM with his really sympathetic views towards strikes and the like. I mean, creating "the second Stalingrad" and causing the "winter of discontent" was certainly an achievement that benefited both industry and community alike...

Edit: Almost forgot about Wilson who was even better with the collpase of the sterling and the IMF having to intervene on grounds of "a rescue operation". Oh, and then Heath with his "three day week" that went down smashing with the miners...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Please leave the lesson to people who were a) there or b) have beyond GCSE History! (This is my final attempt to protect you from yourself!!!!)

 

[the record spot]

Rest easy Clare, we can all link to Wikipedia...

 

[Anonymous]

the record spot:Rest easy Clare, we can all link to Wikipedia...

 

[laserman16]

Hughes123:
the record spot:Rest easy Clare, we can all link to Wikipedia...

Perhaps a wise decision.