Valve amps less distortion than many think

[FennerMachine]

In several topics various members have posted that valves amps have more distortion and that is why some like them.

I have spent many hours demoing various amps and speakers to improve the system I had and what I currently have.

The only thing that made a worthwhile difference was a valve amp.

It gave the best overall improvement and music sounded the most realistic even taking into account price to performance.

I did some research a while ago to find out why this could be.

I found an article on the IEEE website that tested various valve and solid state amplifier designs.

Valves have many advantages over solid state/transistor amplifiers including lower distortion!

Just thought I would share this info.

Try to find the info yourself and see what you think.

 

[drummerman]

Valves have many advantages over solid state/transistor amplifiers including lower distortion!

Generalisations are never a good idea ... whichever way.

Glad you like yours (as I did mine) but there are so many different examples of the breed that a blanket recommendation (or dismissal) is impossible.

regards

 

[Covenanter]

In several topics various members have posted that valves amps have more distortion and that is why some like them.

I have spent many hours demoing various amps and speakers to improve the system I had and what I currently have.

The only thing that made a worthwhile difference was a valve amp.

It gave the best overall improvement and music sounded the most realistic even taking into account price to performance.

I did some research a while ago to find out why this could be.

I found an article on the IEEE website that tested various valve and solid state amplifier designs.

Valves have many advantages over solid state/transistor amplifiers including lower distortion!

Just thought I would share this info.

Try to find the info yourself and see what you think.

Do people say that?

Chris

 

[chebby]

I found an article on the IEEE website that tested various valve and solid state amplifier designs...

Try to find the info yourself ...

Got the link?

Is it this one? ...

http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-cool-sound-of-tubes

 

[Vladimir]

Tube amps are voltage kings which means they have wider dynamic range and more linearity than trannies without using NFB. They run either in Class A or AB so practically no crossover distortion.

Problem is the current. Tubes don't like it, can't deliver it. They don't have much power to give like SS and especially fail to deliver when current is required in difficult loads (low impedances). When an amp runs out of steam it clips and distorts. In tube amps it is the nice lower order harmonics with soft clipping and in SS its the nasty higher order and spikey. Tube amp will run out of power much faster than an equivalent priced SS.

Places where tube amps are briliant is preamplifiers and as power amps with very sensitive easy to drive speakers (95+dB and up, 6ohms min).

 

[FennerMachine]

That's the one Chebby.

I have read on several posts over the years generalising that valve amps have higher THD which may be true but that's only one measure.

The IEEE article was an eye opener and helps explains the pro's and cons of valves and solid state.

 

[Mark1975]

Hi all...I'm new to this so please accept my apologies for gate crashing your thread!I have yet to find out how to start a new one.Anyway I was looking for a bit of advice if possible. I don't own an amazing system...it is literally a soundlab turntable and a newly acquired cambridge A5 amplifier, hooked up to a pair of ancient pioneer speakers.The turntable was purchased simply to play the records from my misspent youth.Whilst I'm not particularly looking for anything outstanding (as the aforementioned set-up undoubtedly indicates) I was hoping for something with a little bit more oomph.I got the A5 from eBay after reading several reviews and whilst I like it it, I can't help wondering why it isn't that loud. Im a total novice when it comes to hifi equipment so wondered what your thoughts would be in terms of me rectifying this?The speakers aren't perfect I know,I will be buying some new ones soon.Would I notice a difference if I bought new phono leads?Any advice offered would be gratefully received!

 

[Native_bon]

The problem is most dnt have the abilty to move on from old believes. SIMPLES!!

 

[Vladimir]

I see no problem people enjoying their tube amps, they are cool. However, if you time travel 50 years back with your amplification, you have to do the same with your speakers. Today's speaker are not that easy to drive even for 50W solid state amps, not to mention low damping and low current valves.

Valve preamp and solid state power amp = bliss. IMO of course.

 

[CnoEvil]

I see no problem people enjoying their tube amps, they are cool. However, if you time travel 50 years back with your amplification, you have to do the same with your speakers. Today's speaker are not that easy to drive even for 50W solid state amps, not to mention low damping and low current valves.

Valve preamp and solid state power amp = bliss. IMO of course.

I have heard VTL Valve amps drive the hell out of some £31k Focal Maestro Utopias.

Icon Audio, Jadis and McIntosh also produce some Valve amps that can handle almost anything. It's expensive, but it can be done.

 

[James7]

I see no problem people enjoying their tube amps, they are cool. However, if you time travel 50 years back with your amplification, you have to do the same with your speakers. Today's speaker are not that easy to drive even for 50W solid state amps, not to mention low damping and low current valves.

Valve preamp and solid state power amp = bliss. IMO of course.

I have heard VTL Valve amps drive the hell out of some £31k Focal Maestro Utopias. Icon Audio and McIntosh also produce some Valve amps that can handle almost anything. It's expensive, but it can be done.

Yes, agreed. Watts seem to count for more from valves too, for some reason. As you suggest, though, powerful valve amplification comes at a price.

Out of interest, one sweeping generalisation that Drummerman will rightly be concerned by is that valve amps sound particularlly good at low volumes, at the kind of level where many solid state amps can sound flat and lacking in dynamic range. Is there any reason why this should be, and any truth in the claim, from your experience (your meaning anyone's rather than just CNo's)?

 

[CnoEvil]

Out of interest, one sweeping generalisation that Drummerman will rightly be concerned by is that valve amps sound particularlly good at low volumes, at the kind of level where many solid state amps can sound flat and lacking in dynamic range. Is there any reason why this should be, and any truth in the claim, from your experience (your meaning anyone's rather than just CNo's)?

I put it down to the amazing transient response that Class A type amps can achieve.....though the downside is heat.

 

[unsteadyken]

I can't help wondering why it isn't that loud.

The Cambridge A5 does not have a phono stage fitted as standard, an optional internal phono stage was available when bought new, it sounds as though your A5 does not have this and in this case the input marked Phono/Aux is just a standard line input , which as you have found will barely work. I'm surprised you can hear anything

You need an external phono stage, search for Pro-Ject Phono Box MM or Cambridge Audio Azur 551P for inexpensive and reasonable quality suitable ones.

 

[Native_bon]

I can't help wondering why it isn't that loud.

The Cambridge A5 does not have a phono stage fitted as standard, an optional internal phono stage was available when bought new, it sounds as though your A5 does not have this and in this case the input marked Phono/Aux is just a standard line input , which as you have found will barely work. I'm surprised you can hear anything

You need an external phono stage, search for Pro-Ject Phono Box MM or Cambridge Audio Azur 551P for inexpensive and reasonable quality suitable ones.

:? were did that come from

 

[lindsayt]

Well, my A-team system is a 30 year old analogue source into a 4 year old passive pre-amp. I've got a new valve amp incoming. Bits of it are new. The heart of it is 80 years old. All into 50 year old passive speakers.

Of course I realise that my source won't sound as good as a CD player due to it having too much distortion and not enough dynamic range. It was also designed for professional use - fast start-up and rugged - so it won't sound as good as something that was designed solely for domestic hi-fi use. And the amplification that comes with my source is all solid state. So I'm missing out on the bliss that Vladimir mentioned.

My system will lack drive / dynamics / push - because of my passive pre-amp. I should use an active pre-amp really.

My valve amp is just a distorting effects box. It only produces 2 watts so it doesn't have enough power to recreate the dynamic headroom needed for a full symphony orchestra or film sound-track.

My speakers are passive. So they will boom and tizz and with them being so old, the drivers won't be as good as modern ones.

So, all in all my system lacks dynamics and will sound like a pleasant but unrealistic effects box. Pipe and slippers.

There's no way on earth that this system could sound more realistic than a CD player / DAC into a pair of modern active speakers, is there?

 

[Vladimir]

Brilliant post.

Which model are the speakers and what efficiency/sensitivity?

 

[lindsayt]

When the amp lands my A Team will be: Studer A807, Lightspeed LDR, Korneff 45 clone, EV Patrician 800's (about 102 to 103 dbs efficient).

 

[andyjm]

In several topics various members have posted that valves amps have more distortion and that is why some like them.

I have spent many hours demoing various amps and speakers to improve the system I had and what I currently have.

The only thing that made a worthwhile difference was a valve amp.

It gave the best overall improvement and music sounded the most realistic even taking into account price to performance.

I did some research a while ago to find out why this could be.

I found an article on the IEEE website that tested various valve and solid state amplifier designs.

Valves have many advantages over solid state/transistor amplifiers including lower distortion!

Just thought I would share this info.

Try to find the info yourself and see what you think.

I read the article. The main argument was that valves tend to get used in class A designs, and semiconductors in AB and B which have greater crossover distortion and use more negative feedback as a result.

I am not sure that article suggested that valves are inherently less distorting than semiconductors.

If anything, most of the article seemed to focus on what nice distortion valves can produce, and as a result why they are chosen by the rock 'n roll fraternity for guitar amps.

One surprising point (if I read it correctly) is that valves are used in condensor mikes because of the their high input impedance. Seems an unlikely use - I thought FETs were used for the same reason - but I guess it would keep the mic nice and warm for an OB on a cold winters day.

Edit: Who knew?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun04/articles/segemini.htm

I think I have probably seen it all now.

 

[davedotco]

When the amp lands my A Team will be: Studer A807, Lightspeed LDR, Korneff 45 clone, EV Patrician 800's (about 102 to 103 dbs efficient).

Wow, sounds fantastic.

I'm off to my dealer to get a demonstration, will report back...... 8)

 

[Vladimir]

When the amp lands my A Team will be: Studer A807, Lightspeed LDR, Korneff 45 clone, EV Patrician 800's (about 102 to 103 dbs efficient).

It's a time travel machine.

Quite impressive one.