Using an AV amp in your HI-FI set up?

[chrisrock]

I posted a thread recently asking for advice in my quest for a new hi-fi set up. Some of the advice and suggestions I was given included using an AV amp instead of the obvious integrated amp choice. For example, ''the record spot'' has the following set up, Onkyo TX-NR818, Tannoy Revolution DC4, Marantz UD-7007.

I was just wondering if anyone else uses an AV amp, and how do you find this? How does it compare to an integrated and what benifits does it offer for your needs?

Thanks

Chris

 

[reece8]

I use an AV amp to run stereo in a seperate room to the main living area. The AV amp has SACD/CD connected as well as networked so can use airplay, internet radio, spotify etc. This covers more of less most of my listening needs. In the main living area i have Monitor Audio BX2 on wall brackets and in stereo mode the sound stage is awesome. Whether this is the speaker positioning or the equipment, i dont know.

I do have an integrated stereo amp which i use for my newly acquired turntable. If i'd have had some foresight i would have run phono cable from the amp under the floor as i did with my speaker cable so wouldn't have needed an additional amp.

I haven't done a comparison between both amps to see which is the better. This is planned very soon with a couple of audiophiles so i'll get an unbiased view. The amps are Denon AVR-3313 and a Denon PMA-350.

 

[The_Lhc]

This is planned very soon with a couple of audiophiles so i'll get an unbiased view.

Of course you will dear...

 

[busb]

Do you need more than two channels? If you don't, buy a stereo amp - simples. Why? It's basic maths. For any chosen budget, the money will go on just two amp sections rather than up to seven. Some AV amps for the same price will sound better because the stereo amp is plain poor to start with. Buy a decent stereo amp.

 

[CnoEvil]

Peoples' opinions vary on this, but fwiw, I agree with Busb.

If you want a stereo amp that can handle hdmi and other digital connections (for AV integration), look at a Linn Sneaky DSM.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Most people on here will say stereo amps are better for music, and I'm not saying that's not true, but personally, I'm happy with the SQ of my av amp.

I had a decent stereo amp several years ago, and the SQ I get now is better, but a lot of that is probably down to having better speakers now, so I can't make a direct comparison.

If you can, audition any possible av amp purchase with some of your favourite music, and if you're happy with the SQ, happy days.

 

[MakkaPakka]

AV amps are also huge. Seems a lot of wasted bulk only to use a limited amount of what's inside it.

Stereo amps are catching up a bit now in terms of features.

 

[Leeps]

I use an AV amp for all my listening / viewing.

Negatives:

* If I'm brutally honest with myself, compared with my previous stereo amp, I do lose a smidgen of detail and outright slam. (This is comparing my Cambridge Azur 640A stereo amp with my current Pioneer VSX-2021 and for a while I was running my old stereo speakers as a Zone 2 off my Pioneer amp, so was able to have a like-for-like comparison). For certain kinds of music, that does matter, although there were negatives associated with my old amp's prowess in this respect (see below). For 80% of the music I enjoy, I don't notice this, but it does show up a little with some classical works and more complex music where there's lots going on in the soundmix at once.

*Size!! - My Pioneer amp (and the accompanying black boxes liberally spread about the room) isn't for the feint-hearted or people with dinky rooms! It's especially deep front to back, which can cause a practical, aesthetic or domestic issue for some.

Positives:

* Sound balance - one side-effect of the slight reduction in the above-mentioned slam, is that my system's balance, particularly over long-listening periods is much more pleasing and less fatiguing. Although this is as much to do with speaker/amp matching than AV vs stereo per se. And my AV amp has introduced strengths to the sound that my Cambridge amp didn't have - especially in the midrange. Female voices sound just wonderful now; lush and fullsome. And the bass available presents stuff with electronica that my old system never knew about (and my neighbours

)

* The soundstage that Extended Stereo offers. This is something you just can't have with a stereo set-up, but I absolutely love it. It's a setting on my AV receiver that allows me to output a stereo signal through all available speakers (a total of 8 midrange drivers, 5 tweeters and a sub). I alter the fader in favour of the front speakers (on the ipad control app) so it sounds natural. The effect this has it quite mesmerising. It places you right in the middle of the music with a huge soundstage (something that my speakers don't do especially well in their own right as they're very 'directional'). For some genres of music, like jazz and latin American, this just makes the whole experience much more like a live set. I would really miss this facility if I ever went back to stereo in the future.

* Feature set. I use Airplay with Spotify a lot. I absolutely love this as I have very wide musical tastes, so exploring new artists this way has been a revelation. I also love the built-in internet radio - the Sky radio stations in New York for example are absolutely fantastic if you like jazz. (a different station is available for each sub-genre of jazz).

* Control app / room EQ. Getting the bass right in any room isn't easy and there are far more adjustments available on most AV amps. The MCACC mic-based automated set-up was superb and well-judged for my room. And I love being able to control my amp and Spotify through my ipad without needing to resort to a separate remote control too.

It's odd that historically you seem to have had to make the choice between having features (AV set-ups) or not (stereo set-ups), but this does seem to be changing. Manufacturers seem to be waking up to the fact that the way people access music now is so different, that they're having to introduce stereo systems with features. NAD's bluetooth/Airplay amps for example, or the Internet-radio/Spotify-equipped Marantz MCR610.

As much as I love the overall sound from my system, my biggest criticism of it is the sheer visual impact it makes on the room. If I was starting from scratch now, I'd probably go for something much more discreet. Maybe a Naim Unitiqute & NAP 100 with an Airport Express and some decent stand-mounters (something like Monitor Audio GX100 or Neat Petite SX) and at some point in the future I may still go down this route, but I would still miss not only some of the features, but some of the sound qualities of my current AV set-up.

I've tried to be as balanced about this as I can. No doubt other contributors will point out where I haven't been

 

[the record spot]

AV amps are also huge. Seems a lot of wasted bulk only to use a limited amount of what's inside it.

Stereo amps are catching up a bit now in terms of features.

And I give you the NAD C370. Oh, and the Marantz NR1504 AV amp.

And of course why bother buying a traditional stereo amp when it's incapable of doing what you need an amp to do? Seems a lot of money wasted for no functionality delivered...

 

[the record spot]

Peoples' opinions vary on this, but fwiw, I agree with Busb.

If you want a stereo amp that can handle hdmi and other digital connections (for AV integration), look at a Linn Sneaky DSM.

Yes. A bargain at just under £1800....

 

[busb]

As it happens, class D power amp technology means that AV amps need not be huge or act as room heaters. Some of the comments from other posters had been interesting regarding digital technology & streaming so the choice changes to go for a basic stereo amp or one with the facilities yo require. This may be Airplay, coaxial or optical inputs etc. a further question is if you do want the facilities not found on a basic stereo amp, do you want a single box solution or something like a separate streamer? The advantage of separates is the flexibility to upgrade as finances allow versus a single box with fewer cables to worry over.

 

[CnoEvil]

Peoples' opinions vary on this, but fwiw, I agree with Busb.

If you want a stereo amp that can handle hdmi and other digital connections (for AV integration), look at a Linn Sneaky DSM.

Yes. A bargain at just under £1800....

Have you heard one?

 

[the record spot]

Yup.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yup.

Would you like to give some details - did you do a dem, and for how long did you listen; what speakers were on the end of it; were you streaming FLAC; did you hear any 24 bit?

Good or bad, I'd like to hear your view.

 

[the record spot]

I heard one when I was getting the Onkyo TX-8050 a couple of years ago. Files were WAV and FLAC, including the Hotel California FLAC, speakers were a mix but included my current pair. It had a nice sound but no better than what I have now I felt. Sleeker though, so looks were an issue then the Linn is more attractive.

 

[MakkaPakka]

And I give you the NAD C370. Oh, and the Marantz NR1504 AV amp.

And of course why bother buying a traditional stereo amp when it's incapable of doing what you need an amp to do? Seems a lot of money wasted for no functionality delivered...

You seem very defensive. AV amps are, barring the odd exception, bigger than stereo amps and that is something that's important to some people.

I'm not sure what the 'no funcionality' comment means. I'd rather have the choice to add functionality I require rather than pay for loads of functionality I don't need.

 

[CnoEvil]

I heard one when I was getting the Onkyo TX-8050 a couple of years ago. Files were WAV and FLAC, including the Hotel California FLAC, speakers were a mix but included my current pair. It had a nice sound but no better than what I have now I felt. Sleeker though, so looks were an issue then the Linn is more attractive.

Thank you, though it couldn't have been the DSM, which has only been available from the middle of 2013. It has more powerful amps (four, which can be bi-amped), has a decent number of inputs, and sounds better than the standard Sneaky.

Info here: http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Sneaky_DSM

 

[the record spot]

Not at all. I just some of the myths emanating from the hifi camp to be worth challenging. The Yamaha AS500 or 700 isn't massively different from the RXV673 while my Onkyo isn't much bigger than the Harman 6850 in the room.

I'd have thought my comment was pretty clear; in my own case I wanted sound quality and functionality as I want prepared to put up with multiple boxes lying around. A traditional stereo amp is too limited, by far, and sound quality differences are minor. I get network capability, 32-bit DACs, the means to bi amp, multiple digital inputs, DSD in its native format, HD master Audio and True HD. It runs as the hub for everything I use and the quality is excellent.

You're welcome to your choice, but the perceived wisdom wears thin sometimes.

 

[CnoEvil]

Not at all. I just some of the myths emanating from the hifi camp to be worth challenging. The Yamaha AS500 or 700 isn't massively different from the RXV673 while my Onkyo isn't much bigger than the Harman 6850 in the room.

I'd have thought my comment was pretty clear; in my own case I wanted sound quality and functionality as I want prepared to put up with multiple boxes lying around. A traditional stereo amp is too limited, by far, and sound quality differences are minor. I get network capability, 32-bit DACs, the means to bi amp, multiple digital inputs, DSD in its native format, HD master Audio and True HD. It runs as the hub for everything I use and the quality is excellent.

You're welcome to your choice, but the perceived wisdom wears thin sometimes.

I was just showing an "all in one" stereo solution, with comprehensive connectivity and very decent SQ, is available.

Just like you, my "perceived wisdom" is based on my own empirical evidence. There is room on here for both POV.....my suggestion was for the OP and not meant in any way, to be commenting on the path that you have taken.

 

[the record spot]

I was really replying to Makka's post with that reply you've quoted Cno.

 

[MakkaPakka]

I don't think I'm perpertuating any myths. All I said was that AV amps are big and you're likely paying for some stuff you don't need if you only plan on listening in stereo. I've never suggested they're inferior in any way.

My stereo amp is about 1/4 the size of a typical AV amp; has five digital inputs, six analogue inputs and two sets of pre-outs. Apart from its lack of a built-in phono stage it misses out nothing that I'd ever want or need.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

* The soundstage that Extended Stereo offers. This is something you just can't have with a stereo set-up, but I absolutely love it. It's a setting on my AV receiver that allows me to output a stereo signal through all available speakers (a total of 8 midrange drivers, 5 tweeters and a sub). I alter the fader in favour of the front speakers (on the ipad control app) so it sounds natural. The effect this has it quite mesmerising. It places you right in the middle of the music with a huge soundstage (something that my speakers don't do especially well in their own right as they're very 'directional'). For some genres of music, like jazz and latin American, this just makes the whole experience much more like a live set. I would really miss this facility if I ever went back to stereo in the future.

I totally agree, though the purist might hate it.

 

[CnoEvil]

I was really replying to Makka's post with that reply you've quoted Cno.

Fair enough.

....though your original reply to my suggestion, implied (to me) that it was a ridiculously overpriced one. I was attempting to explain and justify my logic.

 

[the record spot]

Linn make good stuff, but some of the justification for higher priced streamers I find difficult to accept to some extent. Some of that budget will go to fit and finish and as the Linn offers but 33wpc, it has its limitations too. Horses for courses.

 

[CnoEvil]

Linn make good stuff, but some of the justification for higher priced streamers I find difficult to accept to some extent.

Like any piece of expensive hifi, it has to be placed in a system of similar quality to shine.

Some of that budget will go to fit and finish and as the Linn offers but 33wpc, it has its limitations too. Horses for courses.

Let me quote the venerable Mr E in his review of the Sneaky DSM -

"I used the Sneaky DSM with a range of speakers, including my usual Neat Iotas and PMC GB1s, along with a pair of Focal Aria 926s I had passing through for review, and what was very clear was that, while the system may ‘only’ deliver 33W per channel, unless you want to fill very large space with music at extremely high levels, that output is more than sufficient to deliver music with all its excitement and dynamics intact."