Urgent help required - Sonus Faber Cremona M Speakers

[admin_exported]

Hi. I'm new to this group and I really need some advice. I'm in the process of deciding on the parts for my first HD home cinema system. I've decided on the new Pioneer PDP-LX5090 TV. I've listened to the KEF 3005 and B&W M1 speaker systems and last weekend went to hi fi dealer and spent some time listening to a set up that used Monitor Audio RS 8 speakers at the front with some other MA speakers at the rear and centre with an Arcam Amp and Arcam DVD player (don't have the model details at the moment of the Arcam kit). I thought it souded amazing and after hearing this set up, I realised that floor standing front speakers was the way I wanted to go.

I've got the opportunity to buy a pair of second hand (a few months old) Sonus Faber Cremona M speakers but i will have to make a rapid descision as I have limited time to to say if I want them. I won't get chance to hear them demo'd in advance either, so I'd have to commit on a gut feeling. I've looked at numerous reviews on the Cremona M's and found a number of discussion forums such as this, as well as reviews and almost everything I've read indicates that they sound superb. If they sound anything like as good as the Monitor Audio RS 8 speakers, I'll be made up because the Cromona's (in my opinion) look 100 times better... not that the MA RS 8's look bad, it's more that the cremonas look so good.

One of the issues i have is, I've seen it written and suggested that surround amps are not as good as stereo amps for overall quality. I honestly wouldn't know as I'm new to the hi fi world... I suppose this is what I need your help with...Would the Cremona M's work well as part of the type of set up I'm looking for, or are these more purist and geared towards a stereo set-up rather than surround sound with an AV amp? Would I be paying for speakers that couldn't operate to their optimum if used in the way I'm proposing, therefore perhaps wasting my money. If they are a good option, what should I be looking for in the way of an av amp... Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance (I have until tomorrow to decide)

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Are these the ones on ebay by any chance cos I have seen some going on there? I heard they are fantasic speakers plus they look very well made.

 

[Anonymous]

They are... you wouldn't by any chance be the guy from the shop that sent the e-mail to me would you?

 

[Anonymous]

I had some Sonus Faber Grand Pianos which were fantastic speakers for music and movies, I think the Cremona's should be sensational BUT are more dedicated to true hi-fi. Thats not to say you'll end up with bad surround sound but don't forget you'll need a centre and rears that match tonally. That's serious wedge and the centre speaker looks massive too! Have you got the space?

http://www.sonusfaber.com/eng/home.html

Regarding amps, no mainstream surround amp, Denon, Onkyo, Arcam, Marantz,etc will do justice to the Cremonas in stereo mode. FACT. Some of the specialists make amps that may work better but they may not have the latest features, HDMI, upscaling, networking, HD audio, etc.

How important is music reproduction to you? Gut feeling is that the Cremonas are overkill but that depends on your needs and pocket!

Having 2 amps linked together with pre-outs, a dedicated stereo and top spec AV, is the best way to go if you want to get the Cremonas singing but don't skimp on the surrounds .

Oh and despite the floorstanders, a sub will still be of great benefit to plumb the depths of bass heaven.

R

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm... Thanks for your comments R. This is were I can demonstrate that I really have no knowledge of the hi fi world... this is the first dipping of the toe, so to speak. I wanted the system to double up as something to deliver the sound for the TV (it doesn't have speakers built in) when watching movies etc as well as something for the music... I'd take a stab at a 60/40 split Movies/Music.

The Centre speaker looks like it might be an issue at over 18 kg (where do you put that thing? the TV is going up on the wall).

Budgetwise, that isn't really the biggest constraint (obviously up to a sensible limit). I just want a set up that is going to sound as good as possible for both requirements... and with the SF speakers, they also look like works of art.

What sort of money would you estimate this lot could rack up to?

Thanks.

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

PDJ:
Hmmm... Thanks for your comments R. This is were I can demonstrate that I really have no knowledge of the hi fi world... this is the first dipping of the toe, so to speak. I wanted the system to double up as something to deliver the sound for the TV (it doesn't have speakers built in) when watching movies etc as well as something for the music... I'd take a stab at a 60/40 split Movies/Music.

The Centre speaker looks like it might be an issue at over 18 kg (where do you put that thing? the TV is going up on the wall).

Budgetwise, that isn't really the biggest constraint (obviously up to a sensible limit). I just want a set up that is going to sound as good as possible for both requirements... and with the SF speakers, they also look like works of art.

What sort of money would you estimate this lot could rack up to?

Thanks.

Paul

How about B&W speakers? Good looking, great sounding and resonably priced.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=817&sc=ht

And how big's your room? If the speakers are too big for the room thats not good.

Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Happy to consider anything to be honest. I mentioned in my origianl posting that I've listened to the B&W M1 speaker system... I hadn't considered anything other than a satellite system originally. It was only after hearng the difference of the Monitor Audio RS8 floor standing speakers that I realised what a difference there can be... Then I saw some SF Annivesario speakers last weekend (I haven't listened to them) but thought they looked amazing (yes... I know...not the strongest criteria for selecting speakers) so tried to find out what I could about them. That's how I've ended up on here asking you guys for advice. There may be other stuff available that is better for my needs but this is the problem I have... there seems to be so much out there, where do you begin?

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry missed the Q about room size... this is something else I hadn't considered as an issue. The room is approx 18ft long x 13ft wide but there isn't a wall as such at the opposite end of the room to where the TV will go... it kind of runs in to another room that is a further 20ft long x 24ft wide.

 

[Anonymous]

I would say if you've got the space always go for floorstanders or stand mounters, especially where music is concerned. I think you can get away with floorstanders in your space.
There are so many good speakers out there but I've had numerous B&W's and are all were really good speakers. Take a look at their range. Maybe also Mission, Quad, Monitor Audio, Jamo, Dali.

Sonus speakers are real quality furniture as well as speakers but they are expensive.

As for where to begin. Work out a budget, what you want to achieve from your system e.g. playback blu ray, gaming, dvd, music, etc, listening to radio?, etc.

Track down a good dealer who stocks different options and then listen.

 

[John Duncan]

Sonus Faber are amongst the best speakers I've heard regardless of price, but the Cremona M's are in the "if you have to ask how much they are, you can't afford them" league. Only price I can find is $13k. Yes, 13,000 dollars. That's some serious wedge.

Whilst I'm all for buying the best speaker you can possibly afford, I would suggest this is a little over the top if you, as you hint in your original post, are just starting out. For the money these will go for (let's call it four grand) you could buy a complete system which a) could be almost as beautiful (which the SFs surely are) and b) the majority of people here would regard as high end, and could live with forever........

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:Sonus Faber are amongst the best speakers I've heard regardless of price, but the Cremona M's are in the "if you have to ask how much they are, you can't afford them" league. Only price I can find is $13k. Yes, 13,000 dollars. That's some serious wedge.

Whilst I'm all for buying the best speaker you can possibly afford, I would suggest this is a little over the top if you, as you hint in your original post, are just starting out. For the money these will go for (let's call it four grand) you could buy a complete system which a) could be almost as beautiful (which the SFs surely are) and b) the majority of people here would regard as high end, and could live with forever........

What JD says.

Rob

 

[Anonymous]

No, I am not the seller of those speakers, It's just I saw them on there and I too was tempted...have to say. But I am selling a Tosh hd-xe1 on there.
I agree with the earlier posts about it being very hard to find other speakers alike and to match tonally, I agree with the idea of you looking at the Bowers and Wilkins range as this is what I will do next, they are meant to be superb value for money-performance and looks wise. cheers

 

[Anonymous]

All... thanks very much to those of you that have posted responses to my query. It looks like I'm being talked out of the SF Cremona route ... Further comments will be much appreciated as I could easily be talked back to heading down the Cremona Road... They just look so good; looks being something I do have to take in to account as I have the other half (Eli) who will also have to live with this kit and her first comments have, so far, always been in reference to what the speakers will look like in the room.

It appears to be the shared view that the SF speakers, although good, are pricey and there are others out there that perform just well, if not better... look almost as good (I'll allow Eli to be the judge of that) and better priced. Ultimately, I'm probably no different to anyone else in that I want to get the best I can for as little cost as possible. I also have the view that if I like something and can afford it... then why the Hell not go for it? As mentioned in an earlier reponse I posted, budget isn't really an issue... If it's worth it and I like it, I'll pay it.

Please continue offering other alternatives of attractive looking quality speakers/systems that you can recomend... Remember, I'm a newbie to this Hi Fi world and I will have to find other suitable kit to make the speakers work with the TV and Music, so all other recommendations will be very much appreciated.

BTW, I don't know if it goes without saying, I want his lot to run with HD. It's been suggested that I would be better off hooking up a PS3 because of all of it's other offerings, rather than an straight Blu ray player. Again, comments on this will be much appreciated (suspect I could get hauled in for going off topic with this last bit but I'll take the chance).

Once again, Thank you in advance and thanks to those that have already given advice,

Cheers

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

PDJ:
All... thanks very much to those of you that have posted responses to my query. It looks like I'm being talked out of the SF Cremona route ... Further comments will be much appreciated as I could easily be talked back to heading down the Cremona Road... They just look so good; looks being something I do have to take in to account as I have the other half (Eli) who will also have to live with this kit and her first comments have, so far, always been in reference to what the speakers will look like in the room.

It appears to be the shared view that the SF speakers, although good, are pricey and there are others out there that perform just well, if not better... look almost as good (I'll allow Eli to be the judge of that) and better priced. Ultimately, I'm probably no different to anyone else in that I want to get the best I can for as little cost as possible. I also have the view that if I like something and can afford it... then why the Hell not go for it? As mentioned in an earlier reponse I posted, budget isn't really an issue... If it's worth it and I like it, I'll pay it.

Please continue offering other alternatives of attractive looking quality speakers/systems that you can recomend... Remember, I'm a newbie to this Hi Fi world and I will have to find other suitable kit to make the speakers work with the TV and Music, so all other recommendations will be very much appreciated.

BTW, I don't know if it goes without saying, I want his lot to run with HD. It's been suggested that I would be better off hooking up a PS3 because of all of it's other offerings, rather than an straight Blu ray player. Again, comments on this will be much appreciated (suspect I could get hauled in for going off topic with this last bit but I'll take the chance).

Once again, Thank you in advance and thanks to those that have already given advice,

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul

Right if you've got the cash and space to house them then the Sonus range is obviously very desirable, as speakers and furniture BUT can you house the massive centre speaker and will Eli approve?

It's hard to find prices for them but I've come across some dollar retail. $4500 for the centre, $4200 for surrounds, $7500 for fronts. BUT don't forget the UK get stitched up on conversion.
Then add around £1000 for a different brand subwoofer, £1000 for a surround amp and say at the very least £1000-£1500 for a stereo amp to do the front pair justice.
So far I guess we're talking at least £14K sterling . Still reading??
Add PS3 or a Panasonic BD50, say £400. Then all the cables, supposed to be 10% of outlay but I wouldn't spend £1400 on them. Say half that.
So you'd agree it's serious wedge all round.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/1103sonus/index.html
Rob

 

[Anonymous]

GULP

Getting close to custom install territory.

 

[Anonymous]

Look ok on e bay don't they but couldn't be arsed to dust them ?

Hell of a lot of money to build your first system around though. Why not get them for a stereo system and then do the AV afterwards ? That's if you really have to have them( like a woman has to have shoes)

The issue would then be finding something that Eli likes and sounds as good with movies as the treat you have with music.

Personally, if I was spending that sort of dosh (10-14k) the best local dealer would be out and the loan of some kit would be the road I'd take. Let her see ithem in situ and she may like them more and the sound is auditioned in situ as well

 

[Anonymous]

Think I'd rather bid on this personally......http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMPLETE-THX-HOME-CINEMA-SYSTEM-SIM2-DOMINO-M-K-THX750_W0QQitemZ150274525437QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150274525437&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1308

...but that's just me.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay Rob... I get the picture!! Yes, if the figures you are estimating are close, then probably a bit more than I thought it might come to.... but this is the reason I came here... to ask you all for your advice. Anyway. I've been thinking and after reflection, those Sonus Fabers are real ugly

My honest opiSo it looks like they're off the agenda now...

Soooo... where I go next? I'm prepared to spend anywhere between £5k and £10k on the sound system. JohnDuncan impliead that £4k would get a system that would be considered 'high end' and most on here could live with forever...

Any chance of some shopping/viewing/listening lists of som mighty fine kit (remember Eli's criteria of the aesthetics of this business) that could be achieved with this budget?

Thanks (anyone looking to flog a seconf hand full SF set-up for between £5k nad £10k )

Regards and thanks

Paul

 

[John Duncan]

This is for AV right?

 

[Anonymous]

Correct-o-mundo... It is AV I'm after but from what I'm hearing, stereo amps (are they what are known as 2 channel) do produce higher quality sound . This is simething Rob implied in his last posting. I might consider getting stereo amp in the future if I get to the point that I think it's worth it. I did have a listen to some CDs on some Monitor Audio RS 8 speakers... firstly through an Arcam stereo amp (not sure which model) then an Arcam AVR 350 AV amp which was similarly priced and I have to say, I really couldn't hear much difference.

My aim is to firstly get the surround sound for movies, TV etc. I also thought, if forking out all this dosh, why not try and get it to do a good job with the music too... kind of '2 birds with one stone' type of thingy.

Cheers

 

[John Duncan]

Yup, plenty of good amps that will do both (for a price), though there's an Arcam pair at Superfi just now (DVD and AV Amp) for £999 which would cover both bases very well.......

Just need to find pretty speakers

 

[John Duncan]

Obviously pretty is subjective, but personally if I was going for music and movies and wanted gorgeous, and had a large budget with as much tolerance as you've been talking about, I'd look at.....

Opera Grande Mezza floorstanders - £1,100
Opera Mezza rears - £650
Whatever their centre is (can't find it) - call it 500 quid

Primare SPA21 AV amp - £2k.

There, just over 4 grand for a system to die for (IMO).

And if you had ten grand............

 

[Anonymous]

I've had a look at the item listed on e-bay that Andyb190 mentioned... I don't about the items in this kit but for sure if the write up is accurate, it will probaly will do a super job. The trouble is, it I looks like there would be a requirement for some major surgery in the room to get that lot installed (wonder how much the reserve price might be on this item) . I includes more kit than I'm after ... not bothered about projector or video player. I'm only looking for the speakers and whatever is needed to make them work for full surround sound for movies, also to do the music side of things too.

Will take a look at the items listed by John Duncan.

I've checked e-bay and the SF Cremona's have been sold. Someone has got a bargain... they went for the starting price £3500... only 1 bidder on this item. It wasn't me

 

[Anonymous]

I only mentioned the other listing to give you the idea of what the money could buy you. If you want to spend 10 k and are open to redecorating then the speakers mentioned are good. Obviously not the level of the Sonus (I thought they were ugly but was being polite) but Eli would be ecstatic as invisible speakers are the best looking.

The system JD recommends, from the reviews (and knowing his reputation for being a sound connoisseur) would have to be good.

Seriously though, not many people are throwing this sort of money around in the current climate and you will be courted by dealers who will lend you the whatever you like the look of . In situ is the best audition !!

 

[John Duncan]

andyb190:knowing his reputation for being a sound connoisseur