Upgrading: New TT or just the cart??

[prospero108]

Dear all

I am currently running a Pro-ject debut III SE with a factory fitted OM10. It was just fine until I upgraded the rest of my system. I am now using a Arcam A29 with Kef Q900's in a big room and it is all good until I go vinyl. It just seems that the turntable is too weak and congested, lacking balls. I recently played an old favourite (Trick of the Tail -Genesis) and had to take it off. It sounded distant, shallow with no discernable bass.

It may be a technical issue although I really can't see what and have checked everything I can; or could it be that I need something with more presence. Money isn't an issue but as vinyl isn't my main love ( I can't be bothered to get up every 20 minutes!!) I would prefer to spend less rather than more. If I can get back some oomph from a cart upgrade then I will do that..

So I was looking at the Ortophon 2mBlue as a possible upgrade but am also open to turntable recommendations.

The basic question therefore is will the cart upgrade (2M or something else) give me what I am looking for or should I look to upgrade the whole turntable?

The Arcam has a MM phono stage and I like the Arcam so it stays.

The speakers will be upgraded to Harbeth SL5 in within the year.

Chris

 

[Chris Munden]

Chris, be carefull you don't put the cart before the horse in your upgrade path,

Pete

 

[Al ears]

Dear all

I am currently running a Pro-ject debut III SE with a factory fitted OM10. It was just fine until I upgraded the rest of my system. I am now using a Arcam A29 with Kef Q900's in a big room and it is all good until I go vinyl. It just seems that the turntable is too weak and congested, lacking balls. I recently played an old favourite (Trick of the Tail -Genesis) and had to take it off. It sounded distant, shallow with no discernable bass.

It may be a technical issue although I really can't see what and have checked everything I can; or could it be that I need something with more presence. Money isn't an issue but as vinyl isn't my main love ( I can't be bothered to get up every 20 minutes!!) I would prefer to spend less rather than more. If I can get back some oomph from a cart upgrade then I will do that..

So I was looking at the Ortophon 2mBlue as a possible upgrade but am also open to turntable recommendations.

The basic question therefore is will the cart upgrade (2M or something else) give me what I am looking for or should I look to upgrade the whole turntable?

The Arcam has a MM phono stage and I like the Arcam so it stays.

The speakers will be upgraded to Harbeth SL5 in within the year.

Chris

The turntable should take a significant cartridge upgrade but from the symptoms you describe I would avoid Ortofon cartridges and, depending on your budget look at Shure or Audio Technica.

 

[prospero108]

Thanks for the feedback

What's the problem with Ortofon? And what Shure/AT would be compatible with my TT?

Not an expert in this area...

Chris

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for the feedback

What's the problem with Ortofon? And what Shure/AT would be compatible with my TT?

Not an expert in this area...

Chris

I think you answered your own question in your initial post. You clearly state a lacking in bass and quality in general so I fail to see why you think replacing your cartridge with another Ortofon is going to present dramatic improvements. The Ortofon 2M Blue costs around £175 and I think you might find an Audio Technica AT440mlb is a better all rounder at about £125.

 

[Chris Munden]

I think the advice Al ears gave you is about right, your best and most cost effective up grade is a cartridge. If you decide to upgrade from your Ortofon, then consider the cartridges suggested. Staying with Ortofon, the 2m Blue will be more of the same but only with subtle improvement. I would add one more cartridge to the Shure and Audio Technica ATT440 mb (both excellent) to consider and although a tad dearer is the Goldring 1042. I heard this on a new Planar 3 in my local shop and it really impressed me and other customers in the shop, (I don't use words like, it blew me away or it was awesome ) impressed will suffice, however, its not for me to say which cartridge is better than another, but the advice you have is the route you should take

Pete

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I upgraded from om10 to the 2m blue and it was anything but subtle...a massive improvement and that was on a 2004 project expression...you won't be disappointed with the 2m blue comming from the om10.

 

[Al ears]

I upgraded from om10 to the 2m blue and it was anything but subtle...a massive improvement and that was on a 2004 project expression...you won't be disappointed with the 2m blue comming from the om10.

Don't get me wrong about there being an improvement it is just that experience has led me to believe if you find the tonal presentation somewhat lacking in a cartridge then it is often better to come away from that manufacturer completely and try another make.

 

[prospero108]

As always great advice guys, I have a few to look at there, the ATT440 seems to be favourite judging by the reviews. I won't be doing anything until I get back from sunny Spain in 2 weeks so I appreciate the opinions and happy to hear others.

Thanks.

Chris

 

[Al ears]

As always great advice guys, I have a few to look at there, the ATT440 seems to be favourite judging by the reviews. I won't be doing anything until I get back from sunny Spain in 2 weeks so I appreciate the opinions and happy to hear others.

Thanks.

Chris

That's AudioTechnica AT440 MLb if you are going to buy it. ;-)

 

[Mihai]

I 've upgraded the Ortofn OM 10 with the 2M Red and it's a big difference, the bass is tighter and the highs are more detailed and less itchy. The upgrade to 2M Blue should be a bigger step.

Your money, your call.

 

[chris_bates1974]

I also went to the red with very pleasing results. For the price, I'm not sure you can go wrong. But, like we always say, if you can possibly hear one, do so first. They come fitted as standard to a few tts these days, so you should be able to....

 

[Al ears]

I also went to the red with very pleasing results. For the price, I'm not sure you can go wrong. But, like we always say, if you can possibly hear one, do so first. They come fitted as standard to a few tts these days, so you should be able to....

Audition by all means but they come fitted to a lot of decks these days simply because they are Ortofons basic cartridge, similar in a way the OM10's of their day. Believe me, than can be improved upon for the money.

 

[Al ears]

I also went to the red with very pleasing results. For the price, I'm not sure you can go wrong. But, like we always say, if you can possibly hear one, do so first. They come fitted as standard to a few tts these days, so you should be able to....

Audition by all means but they come fitted to a lot of decks these days simply because they are Ortofons basic cartridge, similar in a way the OM10's of their day. Believe me, than can be improved upon for the money.

In my experience anyone who recommends a 2M Red hasn't yet compared it to anything else.

Your choice, and auditioning cartridges can be a difficult task.

 

[lindsayt]

Prospero, what have you got your TT placed on and how close is it to your speakers?

Could you try placing it a lot further away from your speakers?

Is it on a rigid wallshelf mounted on a solid wall?

Or on something like an original Sound Organisation turntable table?

Also, if I had your TT I'd be looking to change it as soon as possible. To whatever properly engineered (ie expensive when new and heavy) direct or idler drive TT I saw a good deal on first.

 

[Chris Munden]

I have a Ortofon 2MRed in my Rega Planar 3 (old model) and it sounds good, however I did compare it to my older Audio Technica AT440Mla and they are both excellent but in different ways, The Red is a very 'musical' and smooth cartridge but needs some EQ adjustment on the amp to get the best out of it, which is easily achieved. I even adjusted the VTA on the RB300 arm for the Red just to make things equal. Fitting the AT440Mla I lowerd the VTA and tested it on the same Dire Straights Brothers In Arms album. The AT440MLa is just as musical but had a tad more definition across the sound spectrum from highs to lows with instruments being picked out nicely, Careful amp EQ if you have such controls will also pay off with the AT440MLa but without carrying on with more adjectives, the Audio Technica AT440Mla is the winner but to be fair, its not a dramatic win. However I suspect the Ortofon Blue will be more of a contender in my view, so my next job, is to re fiit the AT440Mla back and lower the VTA.

Having said all that, these are not the only cartridges on the market and there are quite a few more well worth auditioning for under £200, its your choice

Pete

 

[Al ears]

I have a Ortofon 2MRed in my Rega Planar 3 (old model) and it sounds good, however I did compare it to my older Audio Technica AT440Mla and they are both excellent but in different ways, The Red is a very 'musical' and smooth cartridge but needs some EQ adjustment on the amp to get the best out of it, which is easily achieved. I even adjusted the VTA on the RB300 arm for the Red just to make things equal. Fitting the AT440Mla I lowerd the VTA and tested it on the same Dire Straights Brothers In Arms album. The AT440MLa is just as musical but had a tad more definition across the sound spectrum from highs to lows with instruments being picked out nicely, Careful amp EQ if you have such controls will also pay off with the AT440MLa but without carrying on with more adjectives, the Audio Technica AT440Mla is the winner but to be fair, its not a dramatic win. However I suspect the Ortofon Blue will be more of a contender in my view, so my next job, is to re fiit the AT440Mla back and lower the VTA.

Having said all that, these are not the only cartridges on the market and there are quite a few more well worth auditioning for under £200, its your choice

Pete

I appreciate your summary, however it is that audition bit that, for many, is impossible to implement without actually purchasing the cartridge.

 

[Chris Munden]

Good point, I was just lucky enough to have both cartridges on hand at home so I thought my rather amateur review would be of help. I think it made my mind up as to which I would go for.

P