Upgrade -Special sound searched

[Anonymous]

Well, I think that now I have more than enough to start. I'll tell you about my final decission when I´m done, in a few months I hope. Next step will be digital music, I am planning to get rid of my CD collection (I never felt any attraction by CD's, contrary to LP's) and keep everything in a NAS (but that`s another story)

Just one final question: I realized that the AVIs ADM9.1 that Snivilisationism and Craig M. suggested have been replaced by the ADM9T. Are they equivalent? Can the ADM9.1 be found at a lower price?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I think that now I have more than enough to start. I'll tell you about my final decission when I´m done, in a few months I hope. Next step will be digital music, I am planning to get rid of my CD collection (I never felt any attraction by CD's, contrary to LP's) and keep everything in a NAS (but that`s another story)

Just one final question: I realized that the AVIs ADM9.1 that Snivilisationism and Craig M. suggested have been replaced by the ADM9T. Are they equivalent? Can the ADM9.1 be found at a lower price?

On Ebay

🙂

But they seem to keep their value pretty well, which is why I bought new...

As to folk calling for huge boxes... Why? Bass at 60Hz and less is sompletely non-directional. Get a good sub, preferably one designed for the speakers and it's just as good as having large speakers, without having to have a pair of tanks sitting in the living room.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

'fraid you're on the wrong track there, old son. Lindsayt is actually right in the points he makes for large speakers, which aren't just about the bass, by the way.

Subs are a good compromise, albeit for the bass only.

 

[lindsayt]

...@lindasyt, oh, not again. Apart from noting your highly biased value judgements and rampant generalisations, we live in different times now. No one wants to live with ugly boxes the size of armchairs in their living rooms any more.

Have you heard any of the speakers you're so quick to criticise, mate?

Oh no. Not again. Someone asks for the best amp and speaker combination for particular type of music, without specifying room size or how important WAF is, and we get the usual What Hi-Fi forum suggestions for tiny modern 2 way ported speakers. With no one mentioning any possible alternatives until I chipped in with my post.

I have heard some of the speakers I criticised in my first post in this thread, but not all of them.

I have however heard enough tiny 2 way ported speakers to come to the conclusion that stunted bass and lacklustre dynamics are generic problems for all of them. I have heard enough electrostatics, large sealed box speakers and horned speakers to realise that they offer some things that tiny 2 way ported speakers don't.

If you, or anyone else disagrees with my criticisms of any of the speakers mentioned, I'd be quite happy to get together for a bake-off so that you can decide for yourself if my criticisms are valid or not. You can decide if I have "highly biased value judgements" or if I'm just calling it as it is. You can decide for yourself if my "rampant generalisations" apply to the particular model of speakers that you would bring to the bake-off or not.

Also, in my previous post, I mentioned Klipsch Heresy speakers which are small unobtrusive speakers. They are certainly not the size of armchairs.

And it's not true that "no one wants to live with ugly boxes the size of armchairs in their living rooms any more." Anyone who cares about getting the best sound out of their records and CD's more than their interior design will be attracted to large speakers. People who are true Hi-fi enthusiasts. With this being a Hi-fi forum one would expect a few Hi-fi enthusiasts to be reading this. Also some of us live in mansions or have large open plan living spaces into which huge speakers can be fitted unobtrusively.

 

[lindsayt]

On Ebay

🙂

But they seem to keep their value pretty well, which is why I bought new...

As to folk calling for huge boxes... Why? Bass at 60Hz and less is sompletely non-directional. Get a good sub, preferably one designed for the speakers and it's just as good as having large speakers, without having to have a pair of tanks sitting in the living room.

Bass at 60hz is completely non-directional?

Have you heard the first track on Abbey Road with speakers capable of proper stereo bass?

Where does it sound like the bass guitar is coming from?

What about full orchestral works? Where does it sound like the kettle and big bass drums are located? Towards the back left or in some undefineable location?

Two good subs might sort out the bass problems of tiny speakers. The subs won't sort out the lacklustre midrange dynamics of tiny speakers.

Would you like to compare your AVI's plus a single good sub against a pair of my tanks to find out if it really is true that they are just as good or not?

 

[Anonymous]

On Ebay

🙂

But they seem to keep their value pretty well, which is why I bought new...

As to folk calling for huge boxes... Why? Bass at 60Hz and less is sompletely non-directional. Get a good sub, preferably one designed for the speakers and it's just as good as having large speakers, without having to have a pair of tanks sitting in the living room.

Bass at 60hz is completely non-directional?

Have you heard the first track on Abbey Road with speakers capable of proper stereo bass?

Where does it sound like the bass guitar is coming from?

What about full orchestral works? Where does it sound like the kettle and big bass drums are located? Towards the back left or in some undefineable location?

Two good subs might sort out the bass problems of tiny speakers. The subs won't sort out the lacklustre midrange dynamics of tiny speakers.

Would you like to compare your AVI's plus a single good sub against a pair of my tanks to find out if it really is true that they are just as good or not?

At 60 Hz, the length of the sound wave is almost 6m. Providing you are sat in a normal listening room, you can't pinpoint that frequency.

And the midrange dynamics of my speakers are exceptional, it's one of the 1st things I noticed.

*edit. I'll give the 1st track of Abbey road a listen later and tell you. On my small speakers and sub. I imagine it will sound like it's coming from exactly the same place as on a large pair of speakers. The bass from a sub, well integrated, sounds like it is coming from the same soundstage as the rest of the music.

*edit 2. My understanding is that the sounds from instruments aren't generally sine-waves. So a bass guitar is pinpointed on the higher frequencies, your brain is tricked into thinking the bass part is coming from top right or whatever. The same trick applies with a subwoofer. In a standard seating position you really don't need 2 speakers reproducing frequencies under around 100Hz (which is around a 3.4 m long soundwave)

 

[amcluesent]

This my 'mostly classical' setup in the study with digital streaming - Touch, Quad 34/306/FM4, Sonus Faber Concertinos on ironwood stands. Do-able for less than £1k5. Main system in sig.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

My money's on Lindsayt's big boxes all the way. Wouldn't live with them (and am therefore not a true HiFi enthusiast) but they'll blew the AVIs into to-morrow. Impossible odds, by the way, no bookie would give you anything on the big 'uns, whereas the AVIs are about a 200 to 1 shot. Against, that is.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to hear the active ATC and Meridian big boxes up against Lindsayt's. Now they'd probably give them a run for the money. - I'd put money down at 2 to 1 against.

 

[whiskywheels]

Hello everybody,

This is my first post. I´ve been reading the forums for some time and I feel this is the right place to ask a question. I have been for the last 20-something years enjoying “analogic” music from my equipment, consisting in a venerable Luxman PD220 Turntable and a Harman-Kardon PM635 amplifier. They are old, I know, but I like very much the clear sound of the Harman. Currently I am using similarly old Kef C40 loudspeakers, which I feel are better for rock but addapt to everything. I also have digital sources, but this is another story.

Now I will donate part of this setting to a relative and will buy a new amplifier + speakers, and here is where I need help. I hear to all kind of music (“there is only two types of music: good and bad”), but I spend more time listening to acoustic instruments and voice, be it classical, ethnical, folk or jazz. I would like to buy something that is as good as possible reproducing the textures of single instruments and voice, not really interested in good reproduction of rock. I would like, say, to close my eyes and “see” Rostropovich playing in front of me.

I am aware that I have to do my homework and go and listen and compare, but I only want some suggstions to start with. Any special brand/combination? Should I go valves? Perhaps professional audio? I want this to listen preferently my collection of vinyls, although I will also connect a CD player. Any suggestion will be welcome.

I was thinking in spending around 1000 pounds for both amplifier and speakers, but if necessary I can stretch it to 2000, although I prefer not to pay that much.

Thank to everyone who took the time to read, and perhaps answer!

Why not keep what you've got?

 

[Anonymous]

Lindsay, what speakers do you have at the moment?

 

[chebby]

This my 'mostly classical' setup in the study with digital streaming - Touch, Quad 34/306/FM4, Sonus Faber Concertinos on ironwood stands. Do-able for less than £1k5. Main system in sig.

Nice.

 

[matthewpiano]

This my 'mostly classical' setup in the study with digital streaming - Touch, Quad 34/306/FM4, Sonus Faber Concertinos on ironwood stands. Do-able for less than £1k5. Main system in sig.

Nice set-up. I've often wondered about those Quad amps. How do you find them for openess and dynamics?

 

[matthewpiano]

This my 'mostly classical' setup in the study with digital streaming - Touch, Quad 34/306/FM4, Sonus Faber Concertinos on ironwood stands. Do-able for less than £1k5. Main system in sig.

Nice set-up. I've often wondered about those Quad amps. How do you find them you openess and dynamics?

 

[Anonymous]

That would be nice. My brother also likes the sound I offered him my equipment in a flash of unmeditated generosity. Anyway, I don't care too much if I can get something better. I have to improve the digital music section too, so I need to go shopping!

By the way, this is an interesting discussion about large boxes vs. small actives. I am intrigued about active speakers, and definitely will give them a try.

 

[Anonymous]

My money's on Lindsayt's big boxes all the way. Wouldn't live with them (and am therefore not a true HiFi enthusiast) but they'll blew the AVIs into to-morrow. Impossible odds, by the way, no bookie would give you anything on the big 'uns, whereas the AVIs are about a 200 to 1 shot. Against, that is.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to hear the active ATC and Meridian big boxes up against Lindsayt's. Now they'd probably give them a run for the money. - I'd put money down at 2 to 1 against.

What a ridiculous post. You should never write anything off until you've heard it.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Now now, snivi, just having a bit of fun! You know how us Aussies will bet on anything.

If you like, I can give you better odds, but mum's the word 😉

 

[Anonymous]

Now now, snivi, just having a bit of fun! You know how us Aussies will bet on anything.

If you like, I can give you better odds, but mum's the word 😉

Well that's true 😉 But you should try to hear them in any case...You might be surprised.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Worth looking at the Genelecs and Adams speakers, too. You will need a preamp (and possibly a phono preamp, depending whether the preamp has a phono stage) as you'll be using vinyl as well as digital.

Alternatively, the Peachtree Audio boxes can act as preamps, have multiple analog and digital inputs, built-in DACs and - icing on the cake - a valve stage.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Heard what? In the end, a large box will always beat a small box, assuming the same quality of components, be they both active or not. It's one of the fundamentals of speaker design. That's where I fully agree with lindsayt.

I've also heard the Tannoy range of horn-loaded speakers, which are huge, and have yet to hear an active that comes close, unless you consider Martin Logan and other electrostatics active. In the end, size does count!

 

[Anonymous]

Heard what? In the end, a large box will always beat a small box, assuming the same quality of components, be they both active or not. It's one of the fundamentals of speaker design. That's where I fully agree with lindsayt.

I've also heard the Tannoy range of horn-loaded speakers, which are huge, and have yet to hear an active that comes close, unless you consider Martin Logan and other electrostatics active. In the end, size does count!

It depends on how much you're willing to tolerate distortion.

 

[chebby]

This thread is looping.

 

[amcluesent]

>I've often wondered about those Quad amps. How do you find them for openess and dynamics?<

Good TBH, certainly peferable to the Arcam Music Solo and some Rotel power amps which I sold on as being dreary. I think Quad's match the demands of the Sonus Faber, although I peferred the Concetinos over the Concertos which I sold on. Maybe the smaller room didn't help the Concertos or they were too demanding on the 306? Anyhow, I've yet to go down the route of re-capping and what not. Maybe a winter project...

This Quad setup is to me the 'A2' compared to the 'A8' of my main system; i.e. in the same family but not quite as refined and powerful. Main system as per sig. and below, again chosen for listening to classical music. All 2nd handex-demo but aound the £6K mark I guess -

 

[lindsayt]

Lindsay, what speakers do you have at the moment?

I have:

Linn Saras. Useful for listening to music in various parts of the house as I do some decorating. Similar sound to the Isobariks, but rather midrangey. The Briks have more extended bass and treble. The Saras are not good at filling my larger rooms - they sound like they're shouting to be heard. Bought for £185 off UK eBay.

Linn Isobariks - passive only models. I really need to sell these as I never use them any more. They sound thin compared to my Bozaks and don't have the open midrange of my EV Sentry III's. Bought for £400 via 2ndhandhifi in Stockton a few years ago.

Bozak Symphonys. Better bass than the EV Sentrys. Not quite as open, dynamic, detailed in the midrange and treble as my EV Sentrys. I have a slight overall preference for the Bozaks over the Sentrys. When I listen to the Sentrys I find myself pining for the Bozak bass. When I listen to the Bozaks I don't miss the Sentry midrange too much. For jazz and classical the Sentrys are better. For rock and pop, the Bozaks. Some people might find the Bozaks too smooth. They're great for extended late night listening sessions due to their fatigue free nature. They're actively bi-amped. Pioneer SF-700 active crossover into Coincident Frankenstein SET's for the midrange and treble, Avondale ss for the bass. Bought for £500 off UK eBay.

EV Sentry III's. I use these with my PVR and Blu Ray player and Creek CAS4040 amp. Which is quite fitting, using them in my home theatre system as they spent the first 38 years of their life in the Royal National Theatre in London providing interval music and being part of the PA. Bought for £415 off UK eBay plus about £80 in foam surronds and tweeter diaphragms.

EV Patrician 800's. Recent purchase. I've not heard them properly as I need to do some plastering, plumbing, electrical work, redecorating in the room these are going into. From firing them up in my hall, they show a lot of promise. Real deep chested sound to them. They have 1st class technical specifications: 15hz to 23khz frequency response, about 103db efficiency, 16ohm nominal impedance, ability to amplify them passively or actively bi, tri or quad amped. Bought for £5500 plus shipping costs and import duty off US eBay.

 

[CnoEvil]

Lindsay, what speakers do you have at the moment?

I have:

Linn Saras. Useful for listening to music in various parts of the house as I do some decorating. Similar sound to the Isobariks, but rather midrangey. The Briks have more extended bass and treble. The Saras are not good at filling my larger rooms - they sound like they're shouting to be heard. Bought for £185 off UK eBay.

Linn Isobariks - passive only models. I really need to sell these as I never use them any more. They sound thin compared to my Bozaks and don't have the open midrange of my EV Sentry III's. Bought for £400 via 2ndhandhifi in Stockton a few years ago.

Bozak Symphonys. Better bass than the EV Sentrys. Not quite as open, dynamic, detailed in the midrange and treble as my EV Sentrys. I have a slight overall preference for the Bozaks over the Sentrys. When I listen to the Sentrys I find myself pining for the Bozak bass. When I listen to the Bozaks I don't miss the Sentry midrange too much. For jazz and classical the Sentrys are better. For rock and pop, the Bozaks. Some people might find the Bozaks too smooth. They're great for extended late night listening sessions due to their fatigue free nature. They're actively bi-amped. Pioneer SF-700 active crossover into Coincident Frankenstein SET's for the midrange and treble, Avondale ss for the bass. Bought for £500 off UK eBay.

EV Sentry III's. I use these with my PVR and Blu Ray player and Creek CAS4040 amp. Which is quite fitting, using them in my home theatre system as they spent the first 38 years of their life in the Royal National Theatre in London providing interval music and being part of the PA. Bought for £415 off UK eBay plus about £80 in foam surronds and tweeter diaphragms.

EV Patrician 800's. Recent purchase. I've not heard them properly as I need to do some plastering, plumbing, electrical work, redecorating in the room these are going into. From firing them up in my hall, they show a lot of promise. Real deep chested sound to them. They have 1st class technical specifications: 15hz to 23khz frequency response, about 103db efficiency, 16ohm nominal impedance, ability to amplify them passively or actively bi, tri or quad amped. Bought for £5500 plus shipping costs and import duty off US eBay.

Lindsay, I suspect a visit to your home would be a very fascinating way to spend a day. I can remember enjoying Linn Isobariks back in the day (on the end of Linn Sondek + Naim,) and wishing I could afford them. I would certainly like to hear the speakers capable of causing them to be "mothballed".

 

[Anonymous]

Lindsay, what speakers do you have at the moment?

I have:

Linn Saras. Useful for listening to music in various parts of the house as I do some decorating. Similar sound to the Isobariks, but rather midrangey. The Briks have more extended bass and treble. The Saras are not good at filling my larger rooms - they sound like they're shouting to be heard. Bought for £185 off UK eBay.

Linn Isobariks - passive only models. I really need to sell these as I never use them any more. They sound thin compared to my Bozaks and don't have the open midrange of my EV Sentry III's. Bought for £400 via 2ndhandhifi in Stockton a few years ago.

Bozak Symphonys. Better bass than the EV Sentrys. Not quite as open, dynamic, detailed in the midrange and treble as my EV Sentrys. I have a slight overall preference for the Bozaks over the Sentrys. When I listen to the Sentrys I find myself pining for the Bozak bass. When I listen to the Bozaks I don't miss the Sentry midrange too much. For jazz and classical the Sentrys are better. For rock and pop, the Bozaks. Some people might find the Bozaks too smooth. They're great for extended late night listening sessions due to their fatigue free nature. They're actively bi-amped. Pioneer SF-700 active crossover into Coincident Frankenstein SET's for the midrange and treble, Avondale ss for the bass. Bought for £500 off UK eBay.

EV Sentry III's. I use these with my PVR and Blu Ray player and Creek CAS4040 amp. Which is quite fitting, using them in my home theatre system as they spent the first 38 years of their life in the Royal National Theatre in London providing interval music and being part of the PA. Bought for £415 off UK eBay plus about £80 in foam surronds and tweeter diaphragms.

EV Patrician 800's. Recent purchase. I've not heard them properly as I need to do some plastering, plumbing, electrical work, redecorating in the room these are going into. From firing them up in my hall, they show a lot of promise. Real deep chested sound to them. They have 1st class technical specifications: 15hz to 23khz frequency response, about 103db efficiency, 16ohm nominal impedance, ability to amplify them passively or actively bi, tri or quad amped. Bought for £5500 plus shipping costs and import duty off US eBay.

That's a pretty serious collection, some serious weight in there! Would love to try out some speakers from that era but need a lot more space. My only experience so far was a pair of celestion dittons on the end of my current amp when i went to collect it. Some sound but not ideal fir a normal size living room....