Unbalance vs Balanced

[spl84]

So I'm completely ignorant on this topic but I would like to know what is the advantage to running a set of balanced interconnects, which I guess would be XFR connectors, over running your standard rca interconnects. Has anyone made the switch and did you notice an audible difference? Thanks

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

When this has been asked before, the general view is that over short cable lengths it's unlikely to make a difference.

 

[spl84]

When this has been asked before, the general view is that over short cable lengths it's unlikely to make a difference.

Thanks... and from the little bit of research I have done on xlr that's what I recall reading is that it's most appropriate for long runs of mic cabling at big concert venues, etc.

 

[Gray]

...it's most appropriate for long runs of mic cabling at big concert venues, etc.

It is.
Professionals (and anyone serious) would only ever use balanced mic cables.

But, given the choice, I would use balanced interconnection for my hi-fi, specifically with 'Starquad' type cable....yes, even for a short run.

 

[Vincent Kars]

RCA is done by sending a signal over a coax wire. The shield is the ground and also protects against outside interference like EMI/RFI.
As the RCA only standardised the plug, voltage can be anything.

Balanced also use a shielded cable, this time with two signal wires. The hot and the cold. The latter is de inverse of the hot.
At the receiver, the hot and the cold are compared and any difference is removed (common noise rejection). This makes is an ideal connection in a electronically dirty environment.
When implemented properly, the ground is a true signal ground, preventing ground loops . Practice might be different.
Voltage is higher. 4.2 V is the minimum. This allows for driving long cables.

As my DAC has both RCA and XLR, I could compare them. Didn't notice any difference. I run the XLR simply because it is rock solid.

 

[Al ears]

RCA is done by sending a signal over a coax wire. The shield is the ground and also protects against outside interference like EMI/RFI.
As the RCA only standardised the plug, voltage can be anything.

Balanced also use a shielded cable, this time with two signal wires. The hot and the cold. The latter is de inverse of the hot.
At the receiver, the hot and the cold are compared and any difference is removed (common noise rejection). This makes is an ideal connection in a electronically dirty environment.
When implemented properly, the ground is a true signal ground, preventing ground loops . Practice might be differen.
Voltage is higher. 4.2 V is the minimum. This allows for driving long cables.

As my DAC has both RCA and XLR, I could compare them. Didn't notice any difference. I run the XLR simply because it is rock solid.

That's the only reason that I use them. Only have one pair between Oppo and amplifier and used because I already owned a pair and the type of fitting is rock-solid.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

If you can use balanced you're better to as it has better interference rejection.

 

[Al ears]

If you can use balanced you're better to as it has better interference rejection.

That will not be noticeable over a short run of a metre or so, the difference in your bank balance may be more noticeable...

 

[daytona600]

All expensive hifi gear has balanced XLR connection as standard for decades
Also standard in all professional circles TV , Radio , Films , Concerts , Recording studios etc

XLR interconnects sound better or the same as a Audiophile RCA connectors but are 95% cheaper as produced in vast volumes each year

Recently Balanced connection on the market for normal budgets from the like of Project , Thorens , Teac etc

 

[ToppingSMSL]

That will not be noticeable over a short run of a metre or so, the difference in your bank balance may be more noticeable...

I dont think balanced cables are that expensive. People pay £100+ for silly RCA cables. You can get XLR cheap.

Also it protects from mains cables crossing the path of the interconnects, It's a cheap thing to do so why not?

 

[daytona600]

Same as silly audiophile speaker cables £1,000 for 3 metres or Professional Speakcon 3 metres for £15

 

[ToppingSMSL]

You can get this Ugreen one for £18 a pair

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Microphone-Amplifiers-Microphones-Professional-Black-3ft/dp/B016Q2CXV4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=56956773327&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.pLb0YVPBS1iWDTJDzDKbBrKC3j-TjUPoHFZjOiFem-08-lGjd9eF41xoKS4zVHujVBAr__JqvxEDRWu9yTk96j8lq7xVE8w3sa07nTtkdg2KySVF9xC-Ix-ykCIAnwG0HC-ITPxLnWnImF-8SdhiLt4HVsexFiRj6NCxulEOZd2ng-TaqDcbHPtkkur8alrJOoK7rKIQCQLhUJ8NkRGJEGkMHfaKJt9gtFgOP-iVOLM5J4CvC_uLdUIqZd2gqglkkmhqOTIgKhsVoHGR-9Va82L6yiBCbAKfnD01BgbTek8.XwAMqtwEuOhA56ZsSzVnUrh_pt0RcWkmlnfdlYfs4EQ&dib_tag=se&hvadid=259070493502&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9192264&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11317290484577474991&hvtargid=kwd-308714920921&hydadcr=28151_1724832&keywords=ugreen+xlr+cable&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1729425674&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[Al ears]

I dont think balanced cables are that expensive. People pay £100+ for silly RCA cables. You can get XLR cheap.

Also it protects from mains cables crossing the path of the interconnects, It's a cheap thing to do so why not?

I think you'll find that, for the same bit of cable, terminated with phonos is invariably cheaper than those terminated with XLR interconnects.
I am not disputing some xlr cables can be bought cheaply but then you get what you pay for quality wise.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I think you'll find that, for the same bit of cable, terminated with phonos is invariably cheaper than those terminated with XLR interconnects.
I am not disputing some xlr cables can be bought cheaply but then you get what you pay for quality wise.

They're a bit more expensive. But not much. Certainly not £100 - which people often spend on RCA cables with no benefit.

 

[podknocker]

I don't see the point of balanced cables in anything but studio installations, where cable runs can be several metres. I've been looking at the Matrix Audio kit recently and I'm sure these are more expensive due to the addition of balanced outputs. When you consider the connecting cables could be less than a metre long, there really is no need for this connection method. Adding professional connections to domestic devices is nothing more than bling. It won't make a difference to the sound.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I don't see the point of balanced cables in anything but studio installations, where cable runs can be several metres. I've been looking at the Matrix Audio kit recently and I'm sure these are more expensive due to the addition of balanced outputs. When you consider the connecting cables could be less than a metre long, there really is no need for this connection method. Adding professional connections to domestic devices is nothing more than bling. It won't make a difference to the sound.

It does offer slight improvement in distortion measurements. Look at this review as an example:

Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC with support for parametric equalization. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229. Sorry for the quality of the picture/display. It is quite dim compared to my photography light and when I tried to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So it offers measurable (even if not audible) benefit. Unlike expensive RCA cables from Audioquest etc.

 

[Al ears]

It does offer slight improvement in distortion measurements. Look at this review as an example:

Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC with support for parametric equalization. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229. Sorry for the quality of the picture/display. It is quite dim compared to my photography light and when I tried to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So it offers measurable (even if not audible) benefit. Unlike expensive RCA cables from Audioquest etc.

The OPs question read audible difference, so the above is pretty meaningless.
Measurable differences that present definite audible differences are what we want to see.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

The OPs question read audible difference, so the above is pretty meaningless.

I dont think it's meaningless. It shows that in most situations it should not be audible. But it also shows that even for short lengths the difference is measurable.

 

[Al ears]

I dont think it's meaningless. It shows that in most situations it should not be audible. But it also shows that even for short lengths the difference is measurable.

So might be the capacitance of a phono cable over a long distance but it's still meaningless is there is no audible difference.
The only advantage an XLR cable has over a phono cable in the home hifi sense is the solidity of the connection.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

So might be the capacitance of a phono cable over a long distance but it's still meaningless is there is no audible difference.
The only advantage an XLR cable has over a phono cable in the home hifi sense is the solidity of the connection.

ok. But would you rather pay a little bit extra and switch to XLR or buy, say, Audioquest Mackenzie RCA at £180?

 

[podknocker]

ok. But would you rather pay a little bit extra and switch to XLR or buy, say, Audioquest Mackenzie RCA at £180?

You don't NEED XLR, but you also don't NEED to spend £180 on an RCA cable. £30 is more than enough.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

You don't NEED XLR, but you also don't NEED to spend £180 on an RCA cable. £30 is more than enough.

Agree. You can get XLR for £30. Robust connection, less susceptible to interference. That's the only benefits but then again it's only cables we're talking about. Cable is cable.

 

[Al ears]

Agree. You can get XLR for £30. Robust connection, less susceptible to interference. That's the only benefits but then again it's only cables we're talking about. Cable is cable.

So you agree the measurements you spouted are meaningless?

 

[Al ears]

You don't NEED XLR, but you also don't NEED to spend £180 on an RCA cable. £30 is more than enough.

If you want them to last it's the quality of the connectors and whatever they happen to be made out of that counts.
If you are the type that never disconnects them and leaves them to slowly corrode then I beg to differ.
Agreed, you don't need XLR but if you have it and have to buy interconnects anyway it makes sense to use said connection.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

So you agree the measurements you spouted are meaningless?

From an audibility standpoint, yes in most cases. From a technological standpoint, no.

Surely the measurements are backing up your position and not "meaningless"?