Turntable debate.......

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I have started seeing a funny (peculiar) person who is slightly different from me.... she says that she is called a "wo-man" and all my friends say not to worry that it is usual, in fact, apparently, living like a hermit and not seeing a "wo-man" was unusual.... 33 years and no-one told me!

This particular woman that I am seeing has the most amazing record collection... but her deck was a present from her old man 6/7 years ago. It is a Pro-ject Debut 2... and although I can see that it might be a entry level champion I am far from impressed... well made but light and certainly an insult to a record collection full of original and interesting L.P.s like hers...

Havin spent the last 12 months building a great hi-fi I am not due the upgrade bug for many, many years (... er months..... er days)... so I have vicariously transferred my bug onto her stereo.

I built a Thorens TD-160 up (with SME 3009 SII tone-arm) and although it is great (that is the entry level for me) it took from Aug 2008 til July 2009 to set up with any degree of success (admittedly that included getting a phono card and cartridge and cable and I was stymied by funds and losing the will to live and... etc, but it was still fiddley). I would consider doing that again but experience has taught me that I need to buy a complete and ready to go deck (there is no money to be saved in constructing your own people)... that gives me a budget of 250 quid.....

I have started to look on Ebay at equivalents... and have come up with the following list.....

Pro-ject 4, 5 or 6

Rega Planar 3 with R200 or RB300 tone-arm....

Does the forum (and any passing editor's) have any opinions on this subject? The turntables listed... or any that are suitable and did not make the list?

Thanks in advance for opinions and help....
 
JohnDuncan:Rather than buy a Project or Rega, I'd stick a 250 quid MC cartridge on that Thorens...

The Thorens already has a Goldring G1042 on it, so it is doing okay.... plus if I stick another £250 cart on my deck that means that when I am staying at hers I am still stuck with the Pro-ject Debut II whose tone-arm is so light that it is tripped up by the smallest obstacle.... so although I am with you, in the finest Thatherist tradition of selfishness (
emotion-2.gif
), it does not really solve the practicalities of the situation....
 
chebby:
Send me the Thorens and I will send you a very nice Rega P2 set-up and no need to spend £250 at all.

That sounds ok I think.

Hmmmm again a good idea but that is trading one deck for another and leaves me deckless.....

Also I am rubbish at irony on this forum, are you saying that they are like for like and that you would seriously consider the swap.... or are you saying that you would take a Thorens over the Rega?
 
I was joking about the trade (we are not allowed to anyway).

But yes, even if I had to walk to your place and back (carrying the decks) I would take the TD160 any day!
 
chebby:
I was joking about the trade (we are not allowed to anyway).

But yes, even if I had to walk to your place and back (carrying the decks) I would take the TD160 any day!

Ay.... I know that we are not allowed to trade here.... when I said that you would seriously consider it I did not mean in this instance I meant in general. This is because I know that you are into your vinyl and I am surprised that you have a Rega if you thought that you would do better with a Thorens....
 
chebby:Because a new TD160 costs about six times more than my Rega P2.

That is a modern TD160..... in fact it is a TD160HD....... I want you to cast your mind back in time..... to when perm's were cool and the Ford Capri was a 'muscle' car..... and this TD160 walked the earth...... the old skool
 
JohnDuncan:Lots of life in that TD160 though. Spend the 250 quid on a new deck for the laydeeeee (which means a P2 or second-hand P3 really).

Well that is what I am thinking.... I am liking the look (notice not the sound - yet) of the P3 with the Japanese s - style arm.... the RB (british made) straight arms seem to get a good write up but, and this is silly and aesthetic (but that has a place here) and might be due to my age, I am preferring the old chrome S arms to the alloy black straight arms.... this can be changed easily in a listening room though.
 
plastic penguin:Is it me or are all budget and mid range TTs carbon copies of each other (look and feel wise)? I concur that they feel flimsey and. . . .cheap! Probably the only thing I dislike about my Project.

Yeah I was surprised.... I mean the sound was fair enough... did not blow me away but was more than adequate... but the look, weight and the feel was rubbish (under the terms of the forum rules I am using 'rubbish' but I so wish to use another word). The two reasons that I went back to look at vinyl was the tactility of the format... handing the material object of the sleeve and record and because I missed llistening to an entire side (I am too flightly with digital formats... never relaxing but always looking for the next song).... so feel is important to me and the budget TT's do feel plasticky, light and cheap and that is a big thing, for me... a turn off.

I was looking at getting a Debut II or III for a cheapy system in the bedroom... but I have to say that I would have to see the Debut III but if it was similar to the Debut II it is right off the list... just handling it is a little miserable...
 
You'd be far better off with a Rega P2 rather than the entry level Pro-ject.
 
bloatedgut:I am liking the look (notice not the sound - yet) of the P3 with the Japanese s - style arm.... the RB (british made) straight arms seem to get a good write up but, and this is silly and aesthetic (but that has a place here) and might be due to my age, I am preferring the old chrome S arms to the alloy black straight arms.... this can be changed easily in a listening room though.

Well it's not for you is it? So IMO aesthetics should take a second place to practicality. The R200 be-armed Planar 3 will be at least 26 years old. (The RB300 arm was introduced in 1983. I had one of the first that Rega made from Chichester Hifi the day the first shipment arrived
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)

A 26+ year old Rega Planar 3 will probably be crying out for a service (at the least) and maybe even a new motor. The old (Acos Lustre based) R200 arm will not sound anywhere near as good as an RB250 or RB300 design. The R200 arm is currently my avatar.

For £294 you can get a brand new Rega P2 with the latest RB251 arm and a Rega Bias 2 cartridge factory pre-fitted and aligned (no fuss).

My Rega dealer (Audio-T) and all UK Rega dealers - as far as I am aware - give you a 3 year guarantee.

For a further £11 (I think) you can get a Rega P3/P2 felt mat, thicker than the one supplied in black or a range of very bright colours (Yellow, Red, Blue etc) to jazz things up a bit.

I promise you a new P2 will sound better than a pre 1983 Planar 3. (I know this. A friend has a 1978 version) And you will feel happier knowing the unit has 3 years cover and a matching cartridge that is already fitted and no hidden 'nasties' that an old deck may come with. Set-up is easy. 5 - 10 minutes with care.

Buying new also helps preserve a few British jobs a tiny bit longer. (Well, Essex anyway.)
 
chebby:
bloatedgut:I am liking the look (notice not the sound - yet) of the P3 with the Japanese s - style arm.... the RB (british made) straight arms seem to get a good write up but, and this is silly and aesthetic (but that has a place here) and might be due to my age, I am preferring the old chrome S arms to the alloy black straight arms.... this can be changed easily in a listening room though.

Well it's not for you is it? So IMO aesthetics should take a second place to practicality. The R200 be-armed Planar 3 will be at least 26 years old. (The RB300 arm was introduced in 1983. I had one of the first that Rega made from Chichester Hifi the day the first shipment arrived
emotion-1.gif
)

A 26+ year old Rega Planar 3 will probably be crying out for a service (at the least) and maybe even a new motor. The old (Acos Lustre based) R200 arm will not sound anywhere near as good as an RB250 or RB300 design. The R200 arm is currently my avatar.

For £294 you can get a brand new Rega P2 with the latest RB251 arm and a Rega Bias 2 cartridge factory pre-fitted and aligned (no fuss).

My Rega dealer (Audio-T) and all UK Rega dealers - as far as I am aware - give you a 3 year guarantee.

For a further £11 (I think) you can get a Rega P3/P2 felt mat, thicker than the one supplied in black or a range of very bright colours (Yellow, Red, Blue etc) to jazz things up a bit.

I promise you a new P2 will sound better than a pre 1983 Planar 3. (I know this. A friend has a 1978 version) And you will feel happier knowing the unit has 3 years cover and a matching cartridge that is already fitted and no hidden 'nasties' that an old deck may come with. Set-up is easy. 5 - 10 minutes with care.

Buying new also helps preserve a few British jobs a tiny bit longer. (Well, Essex anyway.)

Fair play and that all seems very interesting and tempting.... but it does take me back to the original point which is if we are looking purely on price range.... does a brand new Rega P2 for £300 sound better or worse than a Pro-ject 5 (which is nearly twice the price but can be gotten from the old Ebay for £200? Or indeed a Pro-ject 6 which can be gotten secondhand for £300?).

By the way I am aware, having had similar conversations about other componentry that there comes a time when the only sensible answer to my question is 'please go and demo....' but I do like to hear what the forum has to say......
 
Rega P2 and P3 and priced lowly, but perform out of their skins. I have the P3 from 2001 and it pretty much canes comparably priced CD players with ease. I'd be looking at CD players from around the £700 price point to start getting competitive with it (so my current one sounds good but doesn't exceed on the P3) and start putting around £1k aside to really better it.

As to your query; I'd get the P2, new. Failing that, save some cash and splash out on a Systemdek II (or variant thereof, the II-X900 being a bit of a star) for no more than £150. Get one in near mint nick though. Super belt-drive deck, offers plenty of tweak potential and will last for years. Early versions have the tear-drop shaped arm board cutout, later ones rectangular. This particular deck went on to become the blueprint for the Audio Note TT1 and that used to go for about £800 a few years back.

Cartridges: you pays your money, but my cart of choice is the AT440MLa - mind bogglingly good VFM at £90, it's gone up now and is around £130, but keep an eye out for New Old Stock (NOS). Very detailed, almost clinical cartridge, supremely musical and with a fine bass. Tracks like a winner too.

After that, Denon DL110 - about £80. The Goldring 1042 is a fine piece of work though and the two I've mentioned will give you a different presentation, but I very doubt would better it.
 
After selling my Linn Axis (owned from new)some months ago, I purchased a Project Debut III - what a disappointment...sold it within a couple of weeks.. now have the Thorens - just listening to some vinyl at the mo - from 1985 - sounds superb...better than the CD (sorry Naim).

Next week we commission a Michell Focus One, SME 3009/2 and Ortofon MC20..it will be interesting to compare it to the Thorens..will keep both though..

In summary, spend yr money on a classic, the modern TT's are adequate/even good'ish, however they don't have the same character and overall sound.

BR
 
Yes but did you see the quality of the bespoke packaging?

I was impressed.

If it came with an RB250 or RB300 I would be very tempted, but if I buy a new deck I want to sell the old one complete and not have to try and shift an armless P2 and a used LVX.

Plus I am thinking more about something shiny with lights and a speed change button
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chebby:Plus I am thinking more about something shiny with lights and a speed change button
emotion-2.gif


TTPSU? It really is lovely. (or are you going the whole p3 colours?
 
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