Tube Preamp

[SeattleChris]

Thought I was done with my midlife crisis system last year, then while upgrading my headphone amp I chose the Schiit Lyr+ with tube preamp/solid-state amp. Was surprised by how much I love the tube effect, finding the sound much more mesmerizing, enveloping, almost psychedelic. After a home audition I now have the same setup in my main system with the McIntosh MA352. Please note I feel quite guilty as $7K is twice what I ever thought was reasonable for amplification, but my God does it sound good!

I imagine the McIntosh amplification (class A/B) is a step up from my old NAD C399 (class D), but I credit most of the change to those preamp tubes because I knew what to listen for after hearing the Lyr+ with my headphones. Apparently tubes create "good" distortion that somehow lubricates the brain to better hear music. I understand full tube amplification takes it further yet, but usually at the cost of dynamics. Being obsessed with strong, tight bass I probably wouldn't like that, plus I really don't want to worry about a dozen different tubes wearing out and staying tuned. Supposedly the four small pre-amp tubes in the MA352 will last a long time so I suspect this tube preamp/solid-state amp arrangement may be ideal.

So, my question is, why don't more mainstream amp manufacturers offer the tube preamp/solid-state amp arrangement? Do most people not hear or like the tube effect? Or would they not be willing to buy an integrated with a tube sticking out? To me the tube effect offers more of what we're all looking for: the ability to get lost in the music. Why aren't we talking about tubes more? Sorry to most of you, of course I mean "valves"!

 

[Al ears]

There are plenty of manufacturers that offer a hybrid amp design, Rogue Audio for one.
I guess it's mostly down to public demand and cost as to why more don't.
For many, if they do plan to go down the tube route, they will buy an all-tube combo or integrated.
Many buyers will consider any distortion as unwanted and so never contemplate tube amps at all.
Many new to market manufacturers would not have tube amp experience from the outset so solid state and the cheapness of the manufacturing process comes into play.
For many tubes are a thing of the past and they now want compact lifestyle systems that can only be produced by solid state means.

 

[Jasonovich]

So, my question is, why don't more mainstream amp manufacturers offer the tube preamp/solid-state amp arrangement? Do most people not hear or like the tube effect? Or would they not be willing to buy an integrated with a tube sticking out? To me the tube effect offers more of what we're all looking for: the ability to get lost in the music. Why aren't we talking about tubes more? Sorry to most of you, of course I mean "valves"!

Hi Chris

It seems the Chinese are taking it more seriously than the UK and possibly the US. I see the benefits of both solid state and tube. I don't think one is exclusive of the other, you can have both.

Recently I purchased XDUOO TA-66 tube headphone amp for my bedroom Hi-Fi and really love the intimacy and the sugar coated vocals you only get from tubes.

I have been tube rolling successfully, and very pleased with the results. I was able to use a wide choice of tubes after purchasing 6SL7/6SN7 to 6N2 converter adapter. If you want to experiment, a converter adapter will give you a wider selection of tubes to try.

Two weeks ago I replaced the generic 6N5P with a directly compatible Sovtek 6H13C tube. It's a relabelled Svetlana 6AS7G dating back to 1979, a real classic. The sound from that tube is magical

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

Somewhat a leftfield view - but is the (large in size) tube amplification approach at odds with the fact that people are having to live in smaller and smaller properties? i.e. that people today realistically have room for one box solutions / sound bars etc and it is only the few (most of whom are probably on this forum) that have the room for more? Just a thought.

 

[Al ears]

Somewhat a leftfield view - but is the (large in size) tube amplification approach at odds with the fact that people are having to live in smaller and smaller properties? i.e. that people today realistically have room for one box solutions / sound bars etc and it is only the few (most of whom are probably on this forum) that have the room for more? Just a thought.

I would certainly think there is some credence in this. Modern UK housing at least don't have large rooms and many wouldn't take the pre / power two box approach anymore.
There are, of course hybrid integrated amps and I was seriously looking at one a while ago and that was the Rogue Audio Sphinx v3.
I think that cost has a lot more to do with it these days.
Sure, I would love a McIntosh set-up but with their inflated pricing in the UK this is unlikely to become reality.

 

[Jasonovich]

Yes tubes form format tends to be larger than the equivalent solid states and space constraints apply if you're living in a small house or apartment but if you have the room and something you might be considering, it's worth noting, there's parity with costs.
Anyone thinking of purchasing a tube amp for their next upgrade, there's plenty out there to fit ones budget.
If I didn't have the Atoll solid state amps, I'll certainly consider the Paris Advance A10 integrated tube amp. Selling for £2k in some places. Not saying you should go and buy 🙂

quantumAV - Shopping Cart

www.quantumav.co.uk

https://www.hifisound.co.uk/images/advance-paris-a10-classic-integrated-amplifier-p5757-35321_image.jpg

 

[Vincent Kars]

Do most people not hear or like the tube effect?

I don't. I don't like distortion. I know a well designed tube amp won't have audible distortion but then it won't have the tube sound either. This is what a "true" tube amp does: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-wa7-wa7tp-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.7028/
I love the looks but tons of distortion, no thanks.

 

[Jasonovich]

I don't. I don't like distortion. I know a well designed tube amp won't have audible distortion but then it won't have the tube sound either. This is what a "true" tube amp does: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-wa7-wa7tp-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.7028/
I love the looks but tons of distortion, no thanks.

Distortion is high on tubes but the same could be said about vinyl records, every time the stylus goes around the grove it screams Thd.
Is one more preferable to the other?

 

[Vincent Kars]

every time the stylus goes around the grove it screams Thd

That is why I ditched vinyl long ago.

 

[SeattleChris]

Thanks for the comments! It seems this tube preamp/solid-state amp configuration could be the happy medium between the tube effect and proper dynamics. If only some mainstream manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon I'm sure the NAD/Rotel/Marantz price for similar performance could be half the McIntosh.

Vincent - I understand the cognitive dissonance created by purposefully introducing distortion, but I truly love the results!

Jasonovich - I did compare two other tubes to the Lyr+ stock tube (Tung-Sol 6SN7GBT). One I liked less (Psvane UK6SN7) and one I liked more (Psvane CV181TII). For the MA352 I'm hoping McIntosh did a good job sourcing their stock tubes (possibly mfg by JJ), though I've seen very positive remarks about Gold Lion. I'll probably end up trying those eventually, though I'm trying to resist making myself (more) crazy with tube rolling!

Juzzie Wuzzie & AI Ears - Regarding your comments about small listening rooms, I seem to need a little less volume when "enveloped" by the tube effect so I feel that could benefit everyone. While I'm fortunate to be in a house my listening room is small and I believe the tube effect helps maximize it!

 

[Jasonovich]

That is why I ditched vinyl long ago.

Ah fair enough 😃

 

[Roog]

I used a transformer coupled valve pre -amp into a solid state power amp for a while, I can't say that I noticed much if any difference to a solid state pre. I was in my late 50's so my hearing may have equalized things.

I suspect that the valve type distortion that some seem to like comes from a valve power stage.