Tidal / Gapless playback & various streamers

[Leeps]

At some point I want to buy a streamer for Tidal. Principally to hard-wire to ethernet freeing up my iPad to use as a remote control rather than being the streamer itself. At the moment my iPad is physically tethered to my AV receiver by USB. At some point down the line however is a replacement AV receiver, or stereo amp to drive the front main channels, not sure which yet.

But my main question is about gapless playback. Have any of you got experience using Tidal with these streamers? And if so, do they provide gapless playback?

Auralic Aries Mini - high quality machine by all accounts, although its restriction to Tidal could be an issue if the service went belly-up.

Heos (if I purchased a Marantz or Denon AV receiver)

Bluesound

Yamaha's MusicCast - fairly sure this doesn't offer gapless playback at present. (Shame for an otherwise well-respected design). Any news of this being updated at some point?

I suppose for 70% of the music I listen to, gapless playback wouldn't matter. But I listen to a classical now and then and quite a lot of movie soundtracks, and lacking gapless playback would spoil the mood of the music in these cases. Hence the question. It would obviously save money if I purchased an AV receiver that had Tidal on board, but my main criteria will be sound quality so if it requires a separate streamer, then so be it. The other consideration is longevity of app support, which is why I favour those listed above. I'm less keen on apps developed for one-off streamers that'll turn them into paperweights within a couple of years.

 

[CnoEvil]

You know what I'll recommend....and the answer is here: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=29624

 

[insider9]

Definitely no Tidal or Qobuz gapless via Yamaha unless you use BubbleUpnp. Unfortunately not used Tidal with Sonos. And have no experience of others.

Roon definitely does Tidal gapless

 

[Leeps]

You know what I'll recommend....and the answer is here: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=29624

Interesting suggestion Cno...must admit hadn't considered Linn. I'll add it to the possibles. It's nice having the option of RCA analogue and digital outs. Some streamers I've looked out have analogue only or digital only.

 

[Leeps]

Definitely no Tidal or Qobuz gapless via Yamaha unless you use BubbleUpnp. Unfortunately not used Tidal with Sonos. And have no experience of others.

Roon definitely does Tidal gapless

A real shame Yamaha have overlooked this (Tidal gapless) as user reports seem to suggest that the app and general user experience with MusicCast is solid and friendly. And I like their range from budget to midprice, that call all work together.

Thanks for the Roon suggestion. Presumably you need a PC for that?

 

[CnoEvil]

You know what I'll recommend....and the answer is here: https://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=29624

Interesting suggestion Cno...must admit hadn't considered Linn. I'll add it to the possibles. It's nice having the option of RCA analogue and digital outs. Some streamers I've looked out have analogue only or digital only.

Have a listen and I bet you'll be sold on it....it's the most natural Digital Source I've heard, especially with Classical music.

 

[insider9]

A real shame Yamaha have overlooked this (Tidal gapless) as user reports seem to suggest that the app and general user experience with MusicCast is solid and friendly. And I like their range from budget to midprice, that call all work together.

Thanks for the Roon suggestion. Presumably you need a PC for that?

I agree about the Yamaha. The app is decent but felt Sonos app was better. Roon is far better than anything else I've used. It comes at a cost but it's being developed on an ongoing basis. It would be best running of a PC but you could do it on a NAS or even a NUC. There are also streamers like Innuos Zenith that can run Roon.

Auralic Aries Mini and Bluesound Node can act as Roon endpoints.

 

[Barbapapa]

When I tested it on my Bluesound Node last year it did do gapless playback, see https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/qobuz-vs-tidal?page=1. I haven't noticed any changes in that respect. I never check when I play an album whether it would need gapless or not, but I think I have played Mendelssohn's violin concerto recently.

 

[Paulq]

A real shame Yamaha have overlooked this (Tidal gapless) as user reports seem to suggest that the app and general user experience with MusicCast is solid and friendly. And I like their range from budget to midprice, that call all work together.

Thanks for the Roon suggestion. Presumably you need a PC for that?

As a new user of Yamaha stuff (3 days) I must admit I am pretty blown away by the quality of what I am hearing from a 300 quid streamer. I can't hear much if any, of a difference at all between it and the Linn Majik DSM I run in the next room (and that's a big statement from a Linn fan).

Back on topic though and I concur with the earlier comments - no gapless playback on Tidal which is a real shame. I do find the MusicCast app very easy to use and very robust.

 

[davedotco]

A real shame Yamaha have overlooked this (Tidal gapless) as user reports seem to suggest that the app and general user experience with MusicCast is solid and friendly. And I like their range from budget to midprice, that call all work together.

Thanks for the Roon suggestion. Presumably you need a PC for that?

As a new user of Yamaha stuff (3 days) I must admit I am pretty blown away by the quality of what I am hearing from a 300 quid streamer. I can't hear much if any, of a difference at all between it and the Linn Majik DSM I run in the next room (and that's a big statement from a Linn fan).

Back on topic though and I concur with the earlier comments - no gapless playback on Tidal which is a real shame. I do find the MusicCast app very easy to use and very robust.

How about Spotify? Bit of a cheek asking but do you know if the Yamaha setup is gapless when streaming Spotify.

 

[Leeps]

When I tested it on my Bluesound Node last year it did do gapless playback, see https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/qobuz-vs-tidal?page=1. I haven't noticed any changes in that respect. I never check when I play an album whether it would need gapless or not, but I think I have played Mendelssohn's violin concerto recently.

Thanks for the info. It's helpful to know when putting a shortlist together.

 

[insider9]

Yamaha does Spotify and local content gapless including DSD. I'm not sure about Deezer.

 

[davedotco]

#insider9 - Thanks for that, most things seem to handle Spotify Gapless easily enough, nice to have it confirmed though.

#paulq - I realise that the WXC50 is very much the 'new toy' but hearing that it does not dissapoint even in comparison to the Linn streamers is very encouraging. The WXC50 does all that I need and is little more than the cost of a good night out, the app is very good and the only thing holding me back was thoughts about sound quality.

Any more observations on this would be much appreciated. (I know, I only want someone to 'validate my choice'.)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

A real shame Yamaha have overlooked this (Tidal gapless) as user reports seem to suggest that the app and general user experience with MusicCast is solid and friendly. And I like their range from budget to midprice, that call all work together.

Thanks for the Roon suggestion. Presumably you need a PC for that?

As a new user of Yamaha stuff (3 days) I must admit I am pretty blown away by the quality of what I am hearing from a 300 quid streamer. I can't hear much if any, of a difference at all between it and the Linn Majik DSM I run in the next room (and that's a big statement from a Linn fan).

Back on topic though and I concur with the earlier comments - no gapless playback on Tidal which is a real shame. I do find the MusicCast app very easy to use and very robust.

if your talking about the Yamaha wxc50 or any MusicCast device I only use the MusicCast app for setting up the device then I use my iPad with Tidal or Apple Music though there apps to control my music section .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

#insider9 - Thanks for that, most things seem to handle Spotify Gapless easily enough, nice to have it confirmed though.

#paulq - I realise that the WXC50 is very much the 'new toy' but hearing that it does not dissapoint even in comparison to the Linn streamers is very encouraging. The WXC50 does all that I need and is little more than the cost of a good night out, the app is very good and the only thing holding me back was thoughts about sound quality.

Any more observations on this would be much appreciated. (I know, I only want someone to 'validate my choice'.)

the sound quality is pretty good it’s not going to be in the same class as a £1000 Stand alone Dac but for £299 I think it is now it’s pretty serious bit of kit that can do most things .

And there a Yamaha Wxc50 on eBay Secondhand cheaper still and I am amazed that what hifi hasn’t give it a good review yet

 

[Paulq]

#insider9 - Thanks for that, most things seem to handle Spotify Gapless easily enough, nice to have it confirmed though.

#paulq - I realise that the WXC50 is very much the 'new toy' but hearing that it does not disappoint even in comparison to the Linn streamers is very encouraging. The WXC50 does all that I need and is little more than the cost of a good night out, the app is very good and the only thing holding me back was thoughts about sound quality.

Any more observations on this would be much appreciated. (I know, I only want someone to 'validate my choice'.)

Sure - happy to oblige.

I have been a Linn owner for more years than I care to remember. Without resurrecting old threads/arguments there is just something about the way Linn streamers 'present' the music to you that I enjoy and that resonates with me over other brands. I have tried many others but always been disappointed so to some extent I have always been happy to invest in Linn gear and continue to do so; though less so now than before.

I have been looking for something to use for TV/Sky/DVD duties for a while and seriously considered buying a second Majik DSM to do so. That would still have involved an outlay of around £1900 as a minimum to get the DSM/2. The truth was I didn't need anything so expensive for the intended use and I literally stumbled across the Yamaha R-N402D by accident and it ticked a lot of boxes in terms of functions and inputs. Long story short I had a listen last week and as far as demo room sessions ever do, I liked it enough to buy it.

The revelation came when I got it home - I couldn't help but have a play with stuff like Tidal and Qobuz as I have accounts with both. I was actually really surprised at the sound quality and as I have mentioned earlier, I can't claim there's much of a difference between that and the DSM. Perhaps not 'quite' as refined in terms of separation but not much in it. The unit itself is very easy to use and I haven't yet encountered any glitches switching between functions or network issues (Edit: as I write Tidal has decided to go on strike but I suspect that may be Tidal related....)

The app isn't quite as robust or quick as Kazoo and there is a definite (though short), lag when selecting different inputs but it's not something I can't live with. Once up and running it's pretty seamless even if the UI hasn't been perfectly thought out. Navigating from room>playlist>source and back and just generally moving around it could be better but it's by no means poor.

The exam question is whether, as a complete package, how it compares to the more expensive options. I'd have to say that Linn streamers are pretty peerless IMO but this unit has genuinely made me question whether the premium is warranted. I would have to say that it's not in terms of this particular device. There's just no way I can argue that a Majik DSM (new) is 10x as good as the Yamaha when viewed in totality. It isn't. Sure it's a more premium product in terms of hardware, firmware, app use and certainly warranty; but I don't consider it's worth 10x more.

If I was looking for a streamer today and had no prior experience or ownership of Linn then the Yamaha is what I would buy. I can't justify the additional expense despite there being areas where the Linn is clearly the better component.

Hope that helps as an overview but feel free to fire any specific questions you may have - happy to (try to) answer them.

 

[CnoEvil]

What a very honest assessment....and somewhat flies in the face by some, that us audiophools only like stuff because its expensive. It also shows that digital can be surprisingly good at much lower prices.

As you probably know, I too have listened to quite a variety of Digital Sources....Streamers from the like of Linn, Naim, Cyrus, Arcam and Olive; DACs from Chord, Arcam, Rega, MF, Audio Note and DCS; CDPs from Electrocompaniet, Bell Canto, Bladelius, Arcam, Rega, MF, Naim, DCS and Linn.....and (like you) I always come back to the Linn DS....so it is intersting that you rate the Yamaha so highly.

 

[Paulq]

What a very honest assessment....and somewhat flies in the face by some, that us audiophools only like stuff because its expensive. It also shows that digital can be surprisingly good at much lower prices.

As you probably know, I too have listened to quite a variety of Digital Sources....Streamers from the like of Linn, Naim, Cyrus, Arcam and Olive; DACs from Chord, Arcam, Rega, MF, Audio Note and DCS; CDPs from Electrocompaniet, Bell Canto, Bladelius, Arcam, Rega, MF, Naim, DCS and Linn.....and (like you) I always come back to the Linn DS....so it is intersting that you rate the Yamaha so highly.

Cheers.

For a day or so I thought my ears were deceiving me but 3 days in I have the same view. I meant to add that I think my perception of the Yamaha's quality is in no small part attributable to the Dynaudios I am using - different speakers may indeed have yielded a different result. That said, I demo'd it with the Q Acoustics Concept 20's and was pretty impressed with those as well. I also find the tone controls really useful and they are far simpler than my lame attempts at Space Optimisation which I view as somewhat of a gimmick. I am, however, willing to admit that my understanding of how it (SO) is intended to work may not be as good as it could be.

The Dynaudios are quite a remarkable (and also reasonably priced) speaker and there's a definite synergy between the two units. I believe the Yamaha puts out around 140wpc into 8 ohms and whilst the Dynaudios are not a particularly difficult load I do find they shine with more control.

I still plan to use my Linn kit as my primary listen as there's something very magical in the sound which makes me smile every time I use it. I'll just think twice before considering a Klimax DSM......

 

[CnoEvil]

- different speakers may indeed have yielded a different result. That said, I demo'd it with the Q Acoustics Concept 20's and was pretty impressed with those as well.

I can remember being at a Kef/Arcam musical evening. The Source was the Arcam Streamer. When played through a reasonably modest system (A39/LS50s) it sounded good.

When it was then used with A49/Ref 1s and then Ref 3s, the sound had a hard edge that I hadn't heard when using an Akurate DS (in the same system a few weekends before). It's the only time I've heard the new Refs sounding less than brilliant....and it's the only time I've heard them without a DS as a Source.

I've heard the Refs driven by a Linn Klimax amp...but prefer the much cheaper A49.

 

[Paulq]

I can imagine some of those combinations may not have been the best of bedfellows. I know a lot of Arcam devotees but I have never been that taken. Your point about speaker matching is well made and I despair at the number of people here who would even contemplate buying before hearing.

In round terms here the lesson I have learned is that you can get a really decent setup for well under a thousand pounds. The Yamaha I bought plus the Q Acoustics 3020 comes in at around £500 before you start discussing discounts. A decent pair of second-hand stands and buy decent-ish cables and you are up and running with something that sounds very very good.

 

[insider9]

Nice little combo and Dynaudio house sound is lovely. I've noticed you mentioned the app is not the quickest. Are you using your Yamaha connected to WiFi?

To anyone considering a MusicCast device I have this tip. If you're not using it connected to LAN. You can upgrade an antenna. They usually cost about £10 and are worth every penny. I bought something similar to this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GRP2YQE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_zS1IAbS7HDQHJ

MusicCast app shows reception in advanced options. Anything around 80-90 in advanced options and the app is extremely quick. No lag at all.

 

[davedotco]

I can imagine some of those combinations may not have been the best of bedfellows. I know a lot of Arcam devotees but I have never been that taken. Your point about speaker matching is well made and I despair at the number of people here who would even contemplate buying before hearing.

In round terms here the lesson I have learned is that you can get a really decent setup for well under a thousand pounds. The Yamaha I bought plus the Q Acoustics 3020 comes in at around £500 before you start discussing discounts. A decent pair of second-hand stands and buy decent-ish cables and you are up and running with something that sounds very very good.

At a similar sort of price you can get the WXC50 and a pair of Yamaha HS5s if you can live with the looks, for around the £1k mark you can get Dynaudio Lyd5s instead.

Splash a little more and add the Acoustic Energy actives which you seem to like, with a WXC50 you are looking at £1250 plus stands and cables, outrageous performance for the money.

 

[Paulq]

Nice little combo and Dynaudio house sound is lovely. I've noticed you mentioned the app is not the quickest. Are you using your Yamaha connected to WiFi?

To anyone considering a MusicCast device I have this tip. If you're not using it connected to LAN. You can upgrade an antenna. They usually cost about £10 and are worth every penny. I bought something similar to this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GRP2YQE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_zS1IAbS7HDQHJ

MusicCast app shows reception in advanced options. Anything around 80-90 in advanced options and the app is extremely quick. No lag at all.

I was actually thinking about that yesterday. I have it connected via Ethernet with a Powerline connector but noticed that the little wifi light was illuminated so I'll check which connection is working. You seem pretty familiar with it so do you mind pointing me in the right direction with the following:

1 - If it's connected via wifi how do I force it to connect via Ethernet?

2 - I can't seem to find the advanced settings in the app but maybe can't see the wood for the trees. Again would you mind walking through the steps to find it?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Nice little combo and Dynaudio house sound is lovely. I've noticed you mentioned the app is not the quickest. Are you using your Yamaha connected to WiFi?

To anyone considering a MusicCast device I have this tip. If you're not using it connected to LAN. You can upgrade an antenna. They usually cost about £10 and are worth every penny. I bought something similar to this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GRP2YQE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_zS1IAbS7HDQHJ

MusicCast app shows reception in advanced options. Anything around 80-90 in advanced options and the app is extremely quick. No lag at all.

I was actually thinking about that yesterday. I have it connected via Ethernet with a Powerline connector but noticed that the little wifi light was illuminated so I'll check which connection is working. You seem pretty familiar with it so do you mind pointing me in the right direction with the following:

1 - If it's connected via wifi how do I force it to connect via Ethernet?

2 - I can't seem to find the advanced settings in the app but maybe can't see the wood for the trees. Again would you mind walking through the steps to find it?

Thanks for the help.

there is a switch at the back of the Yamaha wxc50 that turns off the WiFi

 

[insider9]

I believe RN-402 would use LAN if one is connected. Don't think there is a physical switch there may be one I don't know about. Check the manual if unsure.

Still there are options in MusicCast app that will have impact on how responsive the app is. Apologies I'm going from memory as sold my WXC-50 around Christmas. I believe the choice was between Stable, Performance or something along these lines. I'd suggest going through Settings. Sadly not sure where this was located.

Please bear in mind there are two parts to settings one App Settings and Room Settings (click on your RN-402). All accessed by pressing a cog symbol in the top right of your MusicCast app. The ones you need I believe are under Room Settings. Go into Information there you should see things like IP address and Signal Strength. With signal strength under 40 app was a little laggy. With 80+ it would be very nippy.